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cupkeyk
2007-10-15, 04:14 PM
The Situation:

A cottage is filled with around fifteen incapacitated folk. It will soon be run over by some fifty Red Caps. The party is currently me a Ranger2/Scout3, a Dark Human Swordsage4(Desert wind/Shadowhand), A Swashbuckler3/ (Carmendine) Monk2, a Marshall 4, and a Knight 4. We had the option of saving ourselves and as many of the wounded we can drag or save them all IF we can defeat the Red Caps. We are joined by three thorns opposing the Redcaps.

The Setting:

Its a Forty foot by forty foot cottage, it has two floors and a basement. Everyone except the Thorns have some manner of cold Iron weapons. There is one cold iron spear in the cottage too. There are fifty cold iron arrows.


How do you think we will survive this? We will have only two game hours to prepare, so no digging trenches or making pit raps. There is also 12 bottles of brandy... Molotov Cocktails?

Thanks in advance

goat
2007-10-15, 04:23 PM
My immediate response would be to hide the cottage, but you're lacking in casters for the illusions.

KIDS
2007-10-15, 04:24 PM
I'd like to know what "thorns" are and what "Redcaps" are before giving any advice. I'm guessing those aren't direct literate meanings in terms of plants/mushrooms...

Ikkitosen
2007-10-15, 04:24 PM
I don't know what redcaps are I'm afraid, but...

Hide the wounded in the basement. Set basic traps to douse the place/baddies in brandy. Burn the cottage down once some redcaps come in to look for the wounded - flaming arrows maybe?

Oeryn
2007-10-15, 04:26 PM
Get in the basement, and bottle 'em up when they come at you. Shouldn't be more than two or three at a time, if there's only one cellar entrance.

Arang
2007-10-15, 04:27 PM
I'm not really sure what Red Caps are, but presuming they are unintelligent monsters:

1. Get everyone upstairs.
2. Destroy the stairs, nail shut all but a few windows, point some pikes down the way the stairs used to be, maybe a barricade up there. Basically make it as hard to come and get you as is possible without limiting your ability to attack them at a range.
3. Take them out with spells, ranged weapons and whatever else works before going in to finish the fight. The spear might be long enough to stab down the stairs, but your DM might not agree. Make sure you don't use any Molotov cocktails inside, fire is the last thing you want.
4. Jump down and duke it out with whatever's left. When you're just about dead, climb back up a rope, pull the rope up behind you, heal, rest, memorize, and repeat from 3.

If they are intelligent monsters and are capable of lighting the cottage on fire:

1. Soak everything inside the cottage with brandy, lamp oil, alchemist's fire, whatever you can find that's highly flammable.
2. Put brackets on the outside of the door that will allow you to bar them from the other side.
3. Get everyone in the basement, conceal the entrance if it's a trapdoor.
4. Have a single character hidden outside (probably the Ranger), somehow get them inside, then bar the door, light the fire, and run for his life. Have some way to signal him if you need backup or if you're in a straight-up fight.
5. Downstairs, try to make a choke point. Fight them if there are many left. If they lose many enough they should give up and leave (or come up with something insidious).

Of course, Red Caps might be capable of climbing/flying, turning invisible or dropping clouds of deadly gas for all I know, so you might be in a tough spot if there's something I haven't planned for.

cupkeyk
2007-10-15, 04:33 PM
Thorns look like little boys with wooden swords; they are fey paladin warrior types. I don't know much about them

Red Caps are vicious small fey with wicked medium sized sickles. I think they are in mm3. The red caps have about 18AC, DR 5/cold iron, 12-20HP and deal about 12 damage per hit with +8 to hit. They can also use sling stones with magical stones. These are just observations from previous encounters we have had with them.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-10-15, 04:35 PM
I did something similar in a game, we engaged in ship-ship warfare, and ended up boarding it. Hundreds of orcs were on board. We also had the good sense to buy barrels of rum in town (as all pirates need).

We throw over the alcohol, lit a torch, and threw it over. There were orc kebabs that day! :smallbiggrin:

Solo
2007-10-15, 04:46 PM
How are the 15 people incapacitated?

cupkeyk
2007-10-15, 04:54 PM
ability(Con) damage and some injury (-1 to -9 HP)

We have already used all our healing capability on reviving the most combat worthy of them: the three thorns.

Mavian
2007-10-15, 04:55 PM
For those of you askin bout Red Caps.

They are vicious, cruel, evil fey. They're called "Red" Caps because they were a magical cap that they bathe in the blood of there enemies.

Thanatos 51-50
2007-10-15, 05:02 PM
I you have a chance to re-locate before the siege, do it. Mobility is an awesome defence.

Otherwise, try bottlenecking your opponenets, make 'im move in a Cluster**** is at all possible.

trainer343
2007-10-15, 05:20 PM
I don't remember redcaps CR, but considering that theirs 8 of you and 50 of them, my gut reaction is to say "Run like a Mo-Fo!"

If you insist on fighting, then I'd bar the windows and get the helpless bait...uh...people upstairs. Use the door to bottle neck the redcaps into the melee guys with ranged people behind (peferably near the stairs) and retreat to the upstairs as needed. That way if you need to escape, you can always jump out a window.

Also, caltrops. Lots and lots of caltrops.



Or, I doubt you can at your level, but you could try to trap the house to explode when the redcaps come in.

Captain van der Decken
2007-10-15, 05:27 PM
Run away?

I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to set the cottage on fire.

If they don't, then go with the bottleneck idea, I guess.

Rex Blunder
2007-10-15, 05:27 PM
A couple of people have suggested getting the people into the basement and setting the cottage on fire. Won't that suffocate the people/cover them in burning wreckage?

How open is the land around the cottage? Can you snipe at them as they approach the cottage? 50 arrows should do something. How many bows do you have?

Do the red caps have ranged attacks? If not, you can sit on the roof and take potshots at them from safety. If the doors and windows are barricaded, it will take them a while to knock them down, during which you can be shooting down at them. Fire first at anyone holding a torch.

Once they breach the house, you can fall back to the basement entrance and try to entice them to come at you one at a time. And if you must set a trap, I'd much rather weaken the cottage's supports and cause a collapse than set it on fire.

Chronos
2007-10-15, 05:27 PM
How is the cottage constructed? Thatch walls, logs, stone? How many doors? How many windows on the first floor, and on the second? And what's the redcaps' motivation? Do they just want to kill everyone for the heck of it, or kill everyone to take your stuff, or take the cottage itself for some reason? In the ideal case, you could block off all downstairs entrances, have a couple of melee chars guard the upstairs windows in case of climbers, and the rest at the downstairs windows and door in case they break in, and have the archers shoot as many as they can from the upstairs windows. Once you run out of arrows, open the front door with your best melee guys blocking it, and fight them as they come in. Rotate out the guys on the front line as needed (when they get hurt too bad), and if needed fall back to the entrance to the basement (where the casualties are hidden). You might also be able to get a guy behind the front-line meatshields poking the spear in between them.

cupkeyk
2007-10-15, 05:31 PM
The redcaps have d8+str damage magical slings. We have one small masterwork composite longbow and one medium longbow.

The walls are wood and roughly three inches thick, around hardness 5 10HP per five foot square with stone foundation.

Hyfigh
2007-10-15, 05:40 PM
I first would like to ask whether the supplies you've listed in the OP are all you have, or if this cottage has other supplies? This seems like a situation that will require lots of inginuity.

My gut is telling me to post your 4 strongest melee'ers at the door. Bottleneck the door to prevent the Caps from coming through in force. Next, bring all flammable liquids you can up to the second floor (lamp oil, cooking oil, alcohol, etc) along with strips of cloth and a source of ignition. Basically, while the Caps are trying to organize to gain entry, douse them in the flammables and set them ablaze. Hopefully, you DM will appreciate your creativeness and allow the fire to burn with an effect like alchemist fire. This will, if nothing more, soften the Caps up.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-10-15, 05:48 PM
You want to leave yourself an escape route. That's step one, no matter what. Unfortunately you have no good way of digging a new, secret entrance quickly enough, so you may have to make do with what you've got.

As most people have said, you want to bottleneck them real good. The last thing you need is for two or three little Red Caps to get behind your lines so that the fifty-seven other Red Caps can flank you.

Then it's pretty much all about formation. Get the people with the highest AC out front (probably your Swashbuckler/Monk as a cornerstone, the guy in the position to take the most attacks). Your ranger is probably an archer (one hopes), so have him take up in the back with the incapacitated, so that he can pick off the targets wounded by others. The other meleeists, line them up as best you can, preferably with ranks, so that one rank can drop back when they get hurt and the other can come forward, while the first drinks potions and heals up.

Yesterday, a group of seven CR-3 and 4 PCs (myself included) fought off a dozen zombies and half as many ghasts with just such a formation. They came at us from two sides; our high-AC Mindblade held off one side (at a choke point) all by himself, because he was practically unhittable. Our meleeists divided up the abuse on the southern front, while dishing out a great deal themselves, and I hung back, buffed my animal companion, and healed. None of us dropped below 40% HP at any time, most of us were hardly hit at all, and all of us were either untouched or at 90+% HP by the end (thanks to healing).

Fighting fifty guys is pretty much the same as fighting twenty. Fighting fifty will just take longer, that's all.




Also, read about Tucker's Kobolds, and pretend you're short and scaly. :)

DraPrime
2007-10-15, 05:49 PM
The best plan would be to avoid fighting in the cottage altogether. I'm thinking that Rager/Scout can move faster than most that he lure the red caps away, and strait into a well planned ambush. Have the red caps run into the rest of the party. They begin the slaughter while the ranger/scout snipes away. The thorns stay at the cottage and make sure that the civilians are well protected.

cupkeyk
2007-10-15, 05:54 PM
So far, it looks like the brandy and the spears are the only things of use, but we will continue rummaging. The swashbuckler monk ust leveled up and got the skill trick cornerperch, he will perch on the doorway and hit redcaps with his spikedchain/combat reflexes combo. The best ac is my ranger/scout but I will be on the roof I think with my bow. The knight wants to be outside since she has mounted combat feats, she can also draw some attacks with test of mettle. We do have caltrops but the Redcaps have DR and are as such useless.

Dervag
2007-10-15, 06:00 PM
Tell us who wins if you decide to stand and fight, please. I'd like to know.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-10-15, 06:05 PM
keep the people in the bottom with one or two thorns, completely seal the basement.

engage them first outside the cottage but dont hold the line for anything, just put a few arrows in them. fall back to the houe and shoot out the windows until they find a way in, go up the stairs and use you spear as your primary weapon keeping them at a distance

try not to burn the place down by soaking the place in water, if you have enough, so the wood doesnt go up, and use the brandy as splash attack, get some rope and when you get to the top of the cottage, get out a window and climb down, coming back to the front door, and picking them off in the back using the rest of your brandy.

streakster
2007-10-15, 06:08 PM
What maneuvers does your swordsage have, and how much time have thee?

cupkeyk
2007-10-15, 06:13 PM
The swordsage's maneuvers are burning blade, stone bones, wolf fang strike, shadow blade, sudden leap, child of shadows and island of blades. That's what we have seen him use so far.

goat
2007-10-15, 06:14 PM
Put them in the basement, seal the basement, make air holes, collapse the house on top of them.

Take the fight on the move.

streakster
2007-10-15, 06:28 PM
Barricade every entrance save one. Put most of the melee fighters there, switching when they get hurt. Let the thorns go first - who cares if they die? The ranged fighters should fire out holes in the wall at the mass of Red Caps waiting to get in.

Keep the people in the basement or top floor. Somewhere hidden and barricaded.

When things look bleak, pout the brandy out a hole onto the Caps. Then, have the sage use burning blade. It should, (if your DM is nice) set the mass of them on fire, since they'll be packed close.

Good luck, my friend.

WrstDmEvr
2007-10-15, 06:33 PM
what is the area around the cottage like?

Curmudgeon
2007-10-15, 06:34 PM
This is going to be really tough. You're going to have to do this in stages, hoping to take out some of the redcaps at each stage. You'll need to prepare barricades at several places, make a couple of rope ladders so you can escape from the upper windows when you need to, and use subterfuge.

Gather lots of dry wood and make a long fire that's in front of the door, but away from it enough so the house doesn't catch on fire. That way they'll have to come in from the sides and will have poor visibility.

Move the disabled into the basement, and make them comfortable there. They'll need to be quiet, because the plan requires you to draw the redcaps away from the disabled people. Board up the basement door from both sides. Barricade everything on the ground level. Fill the space between the door and stairs with upended furniture and big tree branches; that makes it "difficult terrain" + "obstructions" = 1/4 normal movement rate. Put up a barrier on the landing for cover (+4 to AC). When the fight gets into the house stay on the stairs to get the "on higher ground" +1 bonus. Anybody with a reach weapon should stay a couple of steps behind the front defenders so you can all attack at once.

But first get upstairs and use missile weapons from the windows. You'll have cover (+4 to AC). Since you're low on cold iron arrows, those with good STR modifiers should pitch in with slings. They're free (you can whip them together from scrap leather and cloth) and so is the ammo. You'll only get in the occasional 1 or 2 points of damage after subtracting DR with stones, but you can recover 50% of their ammo that comes through the windows but misses you. Then return it, with vigor, and hope the ammo still has magical bonuses when you do so; even if that's not the case bullets are better than stones. The slingers at the windows can start by fighting defensively: -4 to hit to get +2 (or +3 with 5 Tumble ranks) to AC; this makes sense since they can't do much except draw fire until they get some of the enemies' bullets.

When the attackers force you up the stairs, have spikes, nails, heavy furniture, and the like ready to barricade the upstairs. Start a small smoky fire inside (on stones so it doesn't spread to the house), and use your rope ladders to escape from the upper windows, then run well into the woods and climb trees. There you'll have cover from the branches, and the "on higher ground" bonus -- plus they can't climb and use two-handed weapons at the same time. Pick them off as they attempt to get to you or your friends in nearby trees.

You'll probably die. But there's a decent chance that by putting up a strong defense and then leading the redcaps away from the house you'll keep the disabled folk in the basement from drawing attention.

Rex Blunder
2007-10-15, 06:37 PM
The fact that they have slings is pretty grim. I don't know about you on the roof... if they just stay away from the cottage and shoot at you, that's about one natural 20 a turn, even if you have cover. (Never mind how long it takes the DM to roll 50 attack rolls).

Also, aren't most skill tricks only useable 1/encounter? Sounds like this will be a long encounter.

cupkeyk
2007-10-15, 06:39 PM
There is a 40 foot wide river a few tens of feet away from the cottage separating the Redcaps from the cottage. They do not cross running water so they are circling to a bridge, We successfully destroyed the bridge closest to the cottage, thus buying us the two hours. behind the cottage is a sparse second generation forest, roughly one tree every 40 feet, each tree only occupying less than a five foot square at the base and a twenty foot square at the crown. Short and grass over hard earth.

Rex Blunder
2007-10-15, 06:50 PM
hmm... 5 pcs's, 3 thorns, and some brandy. If you at least had a wheelbarrow, that would be something!

Iku Rex
2007-10-15, 06:55 PM
Riding out to meet them is pointless suicide. So is trying to trade ranged attacks with 50 sling-armed opponents.

Rip out as many of the floor boards as possible, retreat to the second floor, tear down the stairs and nail the opening down shut. I doubt if the redcap horde will opt for a long siege. They'll have to climb up the walls, making the windows (if any) easier to defend. Make some improvised ladders so you can get down if you have to.

If you choose to fight on the ground floor you'll want to create an obvious opening and protect it with flankers. (Thorns have +2d6 sneak attack.) The knight is particularly useful. She can slow down attackers and prevent those next to her from making 5' steps, forcing them to draw AoOs from movement or stop in front of the flankers.

Ripping out floor boards can create "pit traps" in front of openings or along the walls (if the redcaps tear through). Remove the ladder to the basement and nail that opening shut to keep them down of they fall. DR does not apply to falling damage. Take advantage of your Medium size and build barriers inside the cottage that provide better cover bonuses for you than the invaders. Cutting down nearby trees might get you cover and concealment in front of the door and windows, forcing the redcaps to come at you one by one in melee instead of sending 40 readied action sling volleys at anything visible inside the cottage.

WrstDmEvr
2007-10-15, 06:59 PM
Well... you could try and cut down a tree with your combined efforts, cut it into boards, and barricade the bridge. Use melee combat weapons only here, save the arrows for when they come..Try to push them into the water... maybe light the banks of the river on fire if possible. Keep the wounded in the cottage with the monk. If your position becomes undefensible, or if somebody becomes seriously wounded, light the log on fire and run for the cottage, barricade it, and hope the Red Caps are held up by the log. Once they come to the cottage, try lighting the entire area on fire, preferrably avoiding scorching the cottage. Put somebody with a bow in the trees, and have that person snipe at the Red Caps.
Of course, you probably don't have enough time for this

Rex Blunder
2007-10-15, 07:14 PM
Do you have enough time to make a raft? It just struck me how amusing it would be to float everyone to the other side of the river. Then the red caps would have to make the trek all the way back across the river. You could always stay on the side of the river with the least red caps.

The only way the red caps would be able to force battle is to divide their forces, in which case you'd only have to fight a maximum of 25 red caps.

WrstDmEvr
2007-10-15, 07:49 PM
well, that would be good unless they stood on the bridge and started shooting at you with slings... maybe if you could get wounded on raft, and float away, raining cold iron down on them.

this all requires a raft, of course.

Rex Blunder
2007-10-15, 07:52 PM
Sounds like the nearest whole bridge is at least an hour away.

Leon
2007-10-15, 07:55 PM
Thorns look like little boys with wooden swords; they are fey paladin warrior types. I don't know much about them


So, a young Link



What gear does the party posess that would useful to know about

Stormcrow
2007-10-15, 08:07 PM
For those of you askin bout Red Caps.

They are vicious, cruel, evil fey. They're called "Red" Caps because they were a magical cap that they bathe in the blood of there enemies.

The same ones from... was it Salvatore's Highwayman?

Chronos
2007-10-15, 08:57 PM
The redcaps have d8+str damage magical slings. We have one small masterwork composite longbow and one medium longbow.That's pretty grim... If anyone is exposed, he's going to take a lot of damage, and probably die. All 50 of them can attack at once, if they've got ranged weapons, so even if your AC is astronomical, that's an average of 2.5 hits per round just from natural 20s. This means that you can't have anyone at all in front of a door or window. And that forest isn't thick enough to provide any meaningful cover, so you won't be able to do much outside.

Two more questions: Do the caps know you've taken out the bridge? And how good are they at hiding, in wooded terrain? If they have to get to where the bridge was, then your ranged characters can snipe at them from across the river, taking advantage of the running water and the bow's superior range to stay out of range of their slings. Even after they cross the river, you can use a character with better speed than them to try to pull some of them away: Approach to just outside of move+sling range, shoot an arrow, repeat the next round. You'll probably want to use your non-iron arrows for this: You're not going to be able to kill many of them anyway, just get their attention.

Back at the cottage, the idea of using the basement as a pit trap is a good one. Keep your melee characters in flanking positions around the top of the stairs and the windows. If you have anyone with Shot on the Run, he can move in front of a window, fire at them, and move back into cover before they can fire back. Otherwise, don't bother trying to shoot at them after they get into sling range.

Neftren
2007-10-15, 09:06 PM
Only downside to moving everybody upstairs is that if they cut the foundations apart... ouch.

I suggest having anyone who is ranged attack from above, while the more melee-ish types stick spears, pikes and other pointy reach weapons out windows. I suggest nailing all the other windows shut, and make arrow slits to shoot arrows and spells out of, and leave a few of the ground floor ones open to stick things out of. I would go against molotov cocktails as traps, since they're flammable... perhaps throw them grenade style off the roof, or out the second floor. Lay them out for maximum spread and "Bang" effect.

Wounded go to the most secure place possible... probably the basement. Try to turn any unused rooms into a massive pit trap, so that if they hack into the room, they're confronted with tons of sharp objects. Got any them sharp pointy objects represented in the PhB? Begins with a C, and I don't remember the rest. Scatter them around in a rough perimeter and camoflage them.

WrstDmEvr
2007-10-15, 09:21 PM
caltrops, i believe.

the only other thing i can think of is to cover the house with timber, and let a manageable amount of red caps inside. Then, burn the timbers outside of the house, keeping the majority outside, and deal with the ones inside, while one archer snipes at ones outside from another window, covered in timber with a hole for the arrow to allow max cover. that would... probably get you enough time to set up a couple of burning logs...

or, you could set some balls of wood on fire and fling them as stones against them. might get around damage reduction, but might give a ranged penalty and the thrower would be screwed.

EDIT: like some other people have said, pit trap maybe. Barricade the door well, and make a pit trap, splitting your forces between the basement(with the wounded, i suggest the marshall, monk, and knight for this) and 2nd floor, which would use bows/slings. throw some motolov cocktails against the jammed up forces trying to get in, sneak a couple of thorns around their back to try and get sneak attack damage, and you have a relatively good chance of making it through the day. also, is it possible for the wounded to rest while the fight is going on?

Iku Rex
2007-10-15, 09:45 PM
Only downside to moving everybody upstairs is that if they cut the foundations apart... ouch.The PCs need to find out as much about redcaps as possible. Talk to the thorns.

Regarding redcaps (the PCs may not know this):
A redcap needs to dip his cap in the blood of a victim to gain power. Setting the cottage on fire or collapsing it as a team effort would most likely defeat the purpose of the attack. The redcaps want to do the killing themselves.

Speaking of team effort: They're not big on it. Get them quarreling and they'll kill each other at the drop of a cap. A group this large will probably be kept under control by a powerful elder (or several, in which case the party is well and truly screwed). If the leader can be killed the rest of the redcaps may start fighting over what to do next and who gets to be leader.

Anxe
2007-10-15, 09:47 PM
You've got no casters and very few coldiron weapons? You're gonna get screwed. Best advice I can give is to use the arrows as melee weapons so they last longer. Sure they deal half damage, but thats more than your sword is gonna deal.

Kompera
2007-10-15, 10:00 PM
hmm... 5 pcs's, 3 thorns, and some brandy. If you at least had a wheelbarrow, that would be something!And a holocaust cloak... :smalltongue:

Use the caltrops and the spears and any thing else (doors, furniture, branches, logs, any tools the cottagers have, etc. Focus on wood items where possible) you can put in place from the cottage or surrounding forest to create a killing field in front of the door. Just because the Redcaps have DR doesn't mean they'll run across spikes freely. Seal off all other doors/windows on the first floor. The killing field needs to force the Redcaps to do a few (at least two) turns back and forth before getting to the door. Soak the spears and any other wood and the ground between the first and second turns with the brandy. Once the Redcaps have engaged the defenders at the door, ignite the brandy with a thrown torch or a flaming arrow. The Redcaps in the middle of the turns will be trapped between those in front and behind them, and will probably die. Those behind them will be slowed greatly, leaving your group time to kill off those in front of the fire. Morale penalties should apply to those Redcaps between the fire and the group at the cottage, depending on how supernatural they are (I'm only familiar with them from The Hero Discovered, where they seemed fairly supernatural but still could be scared off by enough losses).

Good luck!

cupkeyk
2007-10-16, 03:32 AM
I am not familiar of the entire party's gear, I am sorry. They aren't here to share. I was told taht the swordsage will be absent this weekend. So that leaves ranger/scout, monk/swashbuckler, knight and marshal and three thorns.

Yes, the caps saw us destroying the bridge. About how good they are at hiding, I have a +12 modifier to spot and listen and they still got the jump on me a few encounters ago.

I am decided on reconnoiterring, looking for a leader, assassinating him with cold iron arrows while hoping to take as many down with my black adder arrows/rapid shot. Minimal damage is negligible with dexterity damage.

So the knight won't be using her mount and the best idea we have so far is the monk/swash and corner perch.

The pit trap, may be possible.

Ralfarius
2007-10-16, 06:43 AM
I would highly recommend that you have the swordsage either DMPC'd or controlled by another player for the purposes of the upcoming session. I mean, if the character was there, it stands to reason they should still be there when suchnots goes down, and you'll probably need every sword arm you can get.

Townopolis
2007-10-16, 10:41 AM
Barricade. Leave one entrance if you are going to stand and fight. Heavy melee in front. If you can, flank them. Allow them to get 1 square into the cottage so you can flank that one. Tear out some of the upstairs floorboards to use as murder holes, do this directly above the bottleneck (or at a good angle to fire at redcaps there). Leave one window open facing the entrance, barricade the rest. Throw firebombs at the redcaps through this when they mass to try and push through the bottleneck. Turn the single entrance to the cottage into a killzone.

Protect each other.
Focus fire.
Keep as many combatants on your side up as long as possible.
Synergise with each other.
Fight.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-10-16, 11:51 AM
Let me respond to an earlier Cupkeyk post:


So far, it looks like the brandy and the spears are the only things of use, but we will continue rummaging. The swashbuckler monk ust leveled up and got the skill trick cornerperch, he will perch on the doorway and hit redcaps with his spikedchain/combat reflexes combo. The best ac is my ranger/scout but I will be on the roof I think with my bow. The knight wants to be outside since she has mounted combat feats, she can also draw some attacks with test of mettle.

No no no no NONONONONONONONO.

At all costs, DO NOT divide your party. "Divide and conquer," remember. You want to divide your ENEMY, and face them in small chunks if possible. That's a great idea. But you do NOT want to have your five PCs all spaced out doing different things. They will be swarmed, flanked four different ways, cut off from support, blocked from running away, and MURDERED.

Tell your knight you're sorry but his mounted combat feats just aren't going to cut it this time. If you want the Swashbuckler/Monk to use his Combat Reflexes trick, have the knight support him by standing in the square below him.

And you, Mr. Archer, for God's sake stay inside and support the two of them, shooting over their shoulders into any that survive the spiked-chain combo and the knight waiting below. The rest of the PCs should be there too. If the enemies have a +8 bonus with those slings and big damage, you do not, not, NOT want to be the only target on the roof. That's a good way to die in a round.

cupkeyk
2007-10-16, 03:09 PM
So yeah. the idea about breaking a hole from the second floor over the same door the monk will be defending will be my position. The knight will make terrain near her difficult. The marshal will make us shiny.

PlasticSoldier
2007-10-16, 03:28 PM
Man if you guys had a warlock this would be so easy you could just send him across the river and since eldritch blast shoots farther than slings you can just harass them for the hour of walking.


On an unrelated note you guys should make fake heads on a stick like they did in WW1 to distract snipers, if you get the redcaps wasting ammo on a painted rock it will be ammo that doesn't hit you.

PlatinumJester
2007-10-16, 03:30 PM
A bit like Resi 4.

#1 Barricade all windows and doors but leave perhaps some form of emergancy escape root.

#2 Give the commoners all clubs/quaterstaffs and slings.

#3 Put them in the basement.

#4 Keep all ranged people on the top floor to fire down arrows and push away any ladders that they might use.

#5 Dig trenches and spikes around the cottage and cover with camoflage.

#6 Try and lure all of them through one entrance.

#6b Keep a small baricade that gives you cover but gives you room to attack through.

#6c Caltrops are a winner. 1 point of damage but they slow them all down like hell.

#6d if they all come through one entrance try and mak it so that only one can come at a time but lots of you can attack it at once.

#6e Put something nasty above the door like a log trap.

#7 lob homemade molotvs at them from up stairs.

#8 keep buckets of water in case they torch the place.

#9a use Knighty to distract as many as possible if they manage to swarm the place.

#9b then get knighty to lure them into the basement where about 50 club wielding commoners will mob them a la Seven Samurai but slightly different.

#10 get warlock to eldricht blast as many as possible.

#11 if they have to come in one at a time use trip wires.

#12 Barrels of liquor rolled at them followed by a couple of alchemsts fires/torches is a good flame bomb.

#13 if they are coming through the forest then dig as many pit traps (the spikey kind) as possible in there and then just before they come out start a forest fire.


OR

Everyone go upstairs and leave only the front door accesible. Then severly weaken the floor above the basement. When they all rush in they'll all overloead the floor and it'll collapse.

cupkeyk
2007-10-16, 05:28 PM
Most of it is very helpful but I must remind everyone that the Redcaps have only two hours to march from their current location directly across from the cottage from the bridge we destroyed to the bridge upstream and down stream again to engage us. Two hours total, breaking things is fine but building things is sketchy, definitely no digging of trenches or purchasing things from town, since its too far away. We do not have cold iron caltrops. Caltrops have a special attack roll and as such deal standard piercing damage and will not affect the redcaps' DR 5/cold iron.

goat
2007-10-16, 05:44 PM
Are you sure the Redcaps KNOW that there are injured people around? Did they injure them, or did they see them from the other side of the river?

If they don't, you could just hide the injured and draw them away.

cupkeyk
2007-10-16, 05:57 PM
Are you sure the Redcaps KNOW that there are injured people around? Did they injure them, or did they see them from the other side of the river?

If they don't, you could just hide the injured and draw them away.

The story is about these human poachers killing fey to make terrin brandy(sp?? from BoVD). The house is where they extract the fey blood. The Unseelie court is cooperating somewhat to cut down the ranks of Seelie fey in the area. We have driven off the poachers and must now defeat the Redcaps who do not appreciate the fact that their method of satyr, hybsil, thorn, petal population control got shot down. Mostly they want us dead and to make sure the survivors of the poachers won't survive for long.

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-16, 06:04 PM
Putting everyone in the cellar and torching the place = auto TPK.

It's a really, really stupid idea. All the oxygen in the basement will get sucked out, and if the house is built over the cellar, then when the burning cottage collapses, the flaming floorboards will fall on everyone.


[Edit]
What's keeping the Redcaps from burning you out?

BardicDuelist
2007-10-16, 07:20 PM
I recomend hiding the injured somewhere other than the cottage (which can be done in two hours) and setting up diversion dummies in the cottage. When the redcaps attack the cottage, burn it with them in it and pick off those who escape.

Machete
2007-10-16, 08:09 PM
Step 1. Appraise the booze. Some of it may actually be worth something, use that LAST so you can recoup some cash out of this.

Step 2. Put incapactitated in basement.

Step 3. ?

Step 4. Profit

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-16, 08:19 PM
Your best bet is to raft the most injured out, and then move out with the others, over land. Possibly cross the river once the red caps arrive, forcing them to march all the way back, buying you another two hours?

Rex Blunder
2007-10-16, 08:23 PM
Tor, you gotta read my previous posts in this thread. I guess we think along the same lines :smallsmile:

Wooter
2007-10-16, 08:49 PM
The same ones from... was it Salvatore's Highwayman?

They are traditional British goblins/fairy things. Salvatore didn't invent them, neither did WotC.

shadowdemon_lord
2007-10-16, 09:20 PM
Your only hope is to bottleneck them in such a way that they can't turn those slings against you. 50 slings a round=TPK, period end of discussion. Even if you set it up so that only a few redcaps can sling you per round, 50 of them will still probably wear you down (barring some serious CLW wand usage). Try barricading thos windows with wood, stone, furniture, whatever you can do to remove line of sight from them. I'm guessing they wont try and come in through the walls, if they do you're probably hosed. At any rate, it might be worth trying to reinforce those walls if they do try that. If you create an artificial corridor starting at the door to the cottage with floorboards/furniture/whatever that forces the redcaps to come at you 1 at a time (with the swashbuckler perched on the door to both hide him from sling attacks and make a nasty surprise for any redcaps coming in through the door). The only problem I can see is that the redcaps lined up outside of the door are all going to have line of sight on the poor poor chap who has the job of guarding the bottleneck, and probably the spear weilder and archer behind him:smalleek: . You could solve this problem by having no one directly blocking the end of the corridor, and rather having people on either side flanking of it, taking their attacks as the redcaps get to the end of the corridor (to do this you'd need hard corners at the end of the corridor to block line of sight from the people who were close to the corners). This would also give you the advantage of giving your archers (and spearwielder) places where they could threaten the redcaps without suffering mass sling related death. It would have the disadvantage that if you did not finish off the redcaps quickly as they came past the corridor, they could swarm you once enough of them got through. You would have to make it a short corridor or risk having the swashbuckler overwhelmed once the redcaps pick up on this tactic and decide to divide and conquer. In order to prevent the redcaps from simply climbing over this barrier you would probably would have to make it floor to ceiling, which means the only route of escape for the monk swashbuckler would be to tumble through redcaps (or jump over them). Given this fact, it may be better to have your swashbuckler/monk assist in killing redcaps as they come into the kill zone, using the reach of the spiked chain to serve the same function as the spearwielder on the other side.

Of course, for this all to work you NEED someway of making sure the redcaps don't decide to consecutively all run into the cottage. You'd probably drop the first couple of them to do this tactic, but as the horde continued you'd run out of AOO's, and be stuck fighting a bunch of em behind enemy lines, that would quickly spell doom. The other problem is that the redcaps might pound your improptu corridor into dust. To deal with this problem, you should have people not currently fighting the enemy directly in charge of making sure your barricades hold. You'll want to get all the windows on the first floor, to ensure that they don't climb in through the windows and overwhelm you that way.

Good luck with all this, IF you can bottleneck them and avoid those slings, you probably will have a chance. If you can't find someway to stop them all from simply charging past you, hope you could put someone at the end of the corridor but block up the middle of the corridor enough to deter ranged attacks, but not so much that they can't get through (if they can't get at you, then they will definitely turn to destroying your barriers). Doing all of this will probably of course require you to basically demolish every none-essential part of the cottage, but whatever keeps you alive right?

Also, try and see if you can get that players character who wont be showing to the session to be be DMPC'd or run by another player, you'll need him.

Jarlax
2007-10-16, 09:55 PM
take advantage of the fact that all your classes are melee. you dont need to rest to stay powerfull and your powers are as good in the last round as they where in the first.

bottlenecking is best, particularly if you can stay in cover from the other mobs as you take them one at a time.


i would set up the second floor to collapse, fight them downstairs in the basement untill you are all low on HP. then drop the second floor on the ramaining redcaps. catch as many in the house as possible and maybe dig your way out of the basement afterward. dropping the second floor will buy you rest and healing time while the redcaps try and get at you again.

TranquilRage
2007-10-17, 05:59 AM
1) Rip all the doors off their hinges and as many flat, whole sections of wall as you can.
2) Cut some small trees
3) Use the trees as a frame and lash/nail the flat doors and wall section to it.
4) Load everyone on and float down river and away.
5) Escape is a win if the odds are stacked against you.

or...

1) Load the wounded into the basement with some food.
2) Collapse the cottage
3) Hide across the river until the redcaps bugger off
3)a if they start poking around, lure them away.
4) Clear the cellar entrance, retrieve the wounded and leave.

Subotei
2007-10-17, 07:16 AM
Problem with the rafting idea is that you don't know if you're being watched - they may have left a covering force on the other bank to watch you, which could make life very difficult with their slings as you try to launch.

I've never faced Redcaps so don't know if this would work, but if they have some kind of honour then it might - is it worth challenging their leader to single combat? 1 on 1 a PC (appropriately buffed, obviously) should win and if so, you've knocked out their best fighter. It could also spread dissention in their ranks - not sure what Redcap society is like, but hopefully there might be a couple of factions... This assumes you can communicate with them, obviously.

Leon
2007-10-17, 08:15 AM
I've never faced Redcaps so don't know if this would work, but if they have some kind of honour then it might - is it worth challenging their leader to single combat? 1 on 1 a PC (appropriately buffed, obviously) should win and if so, you've knocked out their best fighter. It could also spread dissention in their ranks - not sure what Redcap society is like, but hopefully there might be a couple of factions... This assumes you can communicate with them, obviously.

If its "by the book" redcaps then there shouldnt be exactly 50 of them - they fear even numbers
they are a brawl happy society - not one for really being lead by a great leader, just that the more they kill the more the are powerful

Thorns also get Sleep arrows, use these to strateigic use

cupkeyk
2007-10-17, 10:39 AM
The bad/good news is that since the swordsage is unavailable this weekend, we decided to postpone the next game to two weeks from now. Of course we are all itching to fight already and are all disappointed but we realize our chances without the swordsage's island of blades stance combined by the swashbuckler-monk's reach and the knight's bulwark of defenses go down a lot.

PlatinumJester
2007-10-17, 11:04 AM
Don't forget to get their teeth afterwards. Assuming you want to keep one you will have about 45 left (can't remember how many in the party).

Each tooth sells for about 750gp eachwhich totals to 33,750gp.

Zim
2007-10-17, 12:42 PM
One thing you can consider doing with the monk is disarming the redcaps as they enter your bottleneck area. You have a reach weapon that provides a bonus to disarm and combat reflexes/corner perch, so why not take away their big melee weapon before they get to use it? Before long, you could have a nice little pile of scythes in the middle of the cottage. :smallwink:

Tripping some would also be a good option for controlling the battlefield. It slows them down a lot and provokes AOO's.

cupkeyk
2007-10-17, 01:19 PM
Huh? 750gp each? That's insane!!! We have been leaving the stuff on the ground for several encounters now. We just Knowledge Nature Checked that they grant diplomacy check bonuses when dealing with fey.

PlatinumJester
2007-10-17, 01:53 PM
Huh? 750gp each? That's insane!!! We have been leaving the stuff on the ground for several encounters now. We just Knowledge Nature Checked that they grant diplomacy check bonuses when dealing with fey.

To buy one they cost a 1000gp but they sell for about 500 - 700gp.

WrstDmEvr
2007-10-17, 02:28 PM
or, maybe as an extra thing, plant some cold iron arrows in the ground as spikes... if your DM's nice, it'll wound and cripple them.

Doresain
2007-10-17, 02:32 PM
now if you had a changeling bard you could simply just persuade them in some form or fashion to leave...i had a level 4 changeling bard and managed to persuade a battalion of goblinoids and a naga to help us fight a 3-4 mind flayers...

kjones
2007-10-17, 03:40 PM
now if you had a changeling bard you could simply just persuade them in some form or fashion to leave...i had a level 4 changeling bard and managed to persuade a battalion of goblinoids and a naga to help us fight a 3-4 mind flayers...

"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak." -Jayne, Firefly

PlasticSoldier
2007-10-17, 03:58 PM
Just remember that if you kill them as they enter the door the "rough terrain" from the corpses will slow them down and should give morale effects.

Thrawn183
2007-10-17, 04:33 PM
I stopped reading at the end of page 1, hopefully this is still original.

Pull everyone out of the cottage, hide them. Defend the cottage as if there we're people inside but set it up to be a fire trap. Basically fight back into and upstairs and at a pre-arranged signal have everyone jump out a window and set the whole thing on fire. You might be able to take out somewhere around half your enemies at once.

Chronos
2007-10-17, 06:04 PM
Basically fight back into and upstairs and at a pre-arranged signal have everyone jump out a window and set the whole thing on fire. You might be able to take out somewhere around half your enemies at once.Killing half the enemy at the cost of losing the cottage is a TPK. With that many enemies, all with ranged weapons, fighting in the open is suicide. You need to either kill all of them, or avoid them entirely.

Meanwhile, I just can't shake the feeling that that river is a huge asset, but I can't think how to use it effectively (beyond the two hours it's already bought you). The idea is something like fight a few, cross the river to make them come to you, use the time to prepare for fighting the next few, cross back, and so on, but the presence of the civilians, plus the range of the slings, makes this problematic.

WrstDmEvr
2007-10-17, 06:09 PM
so another idea...

1. Plant the cold iron arrows all around the entrance to the cottage
2. Place a person with the cold iron spear at the door
3. Place a person with a reach weapon(somebody mentioned it earlier) on the other side
4. Wait for them to come in. If characters are placed right and if you get good luck, you will be able to flank them, catch them flat-footed, and maybe a couple sneak attacks from thorns?
5. Pile the bodies up by the door when you get the chance, it will demoralize/block the rest of the Red Caps

Thane of Fife
2007-10-17, 06:23 PM
You say that your knight wants to use his mounted feats, so assumably he has access to a horse.

Why doesn't he just gallop up the river faster than the Redcaps can walk/run/whatever and burn the next couple bridges before they can cross those? If everyone else stays back at the cottage, you could probably build a more effective defense or raft away before they got to you (Although, if you intend to run, you should establish a place to meet with the knight later).

Alternatively, perhaps try this:

Barricade the doors and windows on the ground level securely, but make the upstairs windows reachable - say, lower a ladder, or something. Leave a Thorn or two downstairs in case they try to break in, and try to defend the windows. If you can get them to come up the ladder that's awesome, if a bit unlikely. If not, at least try to force them to come through windows rather than doors. That should slow them down more.

cupkeyk
2007-10-17, 06:23 PM
Killing half the enemy at the cost of losing the cottage is a TPK. With that many enemies, all with ranged weapons, fighting in the open is suicide. You need to either kill all of them, or avoid them entirely.

Meanwhile, I just can't shake the feeling that that river is a huge asset, but I can't think how to use it effectively (beyond the two hours it's already bought you). The idea is something like fight a few, cross the river to make them come to you, use the time to prepare for fighting the next few, cross back, and so on, but the presence of the civilians, plus the range of the slings, makes this problematic.

I succeeded on my knowledge nature roll and I know for a fact that Redcaps will refuse to set foot on running water, hence they used bridges instead of just wading across. We don't know how deep the water is. The redcaps marched up stream so a raft may not be a bad idea if we go downstream.

But then pulling down doors and building a raft may not be the best investment of our two hours. Should we fail to finish it, we would have dismantled the house instead of fortifying it, thereby destroying our best defensive location.

One of the players refused to use the Terrin Brandy as Molotov Cocktail because they cost about 2000gp each cask. He is the sole evil member of the party, terrin brandy is an addictive substance and the rest of us think it is an evil substance like pixie sticks or deep fried onion blossoms

Chronos
2007-10-17, 08:59 PM
One of the players refused to use the Terrin Brandy as Molotov Cocktail because they cost about 2000gp each cask. He is the sole evil member of the party, terrin brandy is an addictive substance and the rest of us think it is an evil substance like pixie sticks or deep fried onion blossoms*finally puts 2 and 2 together*
So the flammable liquor you have available is the evil stuff the villains were brewing out of dead fairies? Yeah, you definitely don't want to sell that, and you might not want to weaponize it, either. My inclination would be to pour it out respectfully into the ground over the graves of any of the fey who don't make it, but ask the conscious ones (the thorns, at least) if they have any other preferences.

shadowdemon_lord
2007-10-18, 12:30 AM
Yeah, the deal with the evil character wanting to use the dead fairies for profit, screw him. If you want to play an evil character in a group of good characters, you've got to learn that you're ideas are going to be over run some of the time. This of course assumes the rest of the party is good/has respect for the fairies. If he throws a RL fit about it, well then you've got to make him understand it's a game, nothing more. Get the opionion of the two Thorns you have in your group, let them decide whether it should be weaponized or not.

kjones
2007-10-18, 07:55 AM
You say that your knight wants to use his mounted feats, so assumably he has access to a horse.

Why doesn't he just gallop up the river faster than the Redcaps can walk/run/whatever and burn the next couple bridges before they can cross those? If everyone else stays back at the cottage, you could probably build a more effective defense or raft away before they got to you (Although, if you intend to run, you should establish a place to meet with the knight later).



This is the best idea I've heard so far. Keep them on the other side of the river, maybe even long enough for you to evacuate the wounded, certainly long enough for you to get to a more secure position. It might be risky for the knight, being out by himself, but he'll have to do it.

The monk/swash. should have decent move if something happens to the Knight's horse, try using that asset as well.

cupkeyk
2007-10-18, 09:46 AM
Actually, if mounted the knight, the scout, the swash/monk all have forty/fifty speed.

TranquilRage
2007-10-18, 10:30 AM
Err hold on, sealed barrels float. They would make excellent flotation aids when added to the trees + door idea. You could even just lash the wounded to one of them and (if you have access to that horse) make a pony barge down the stream.

Much quicker. You arn't going to win without some DM assistance .

If you do fight though, the arrows forced into the ground point up might make it very hard to get into windows etc. Ground spikes ftw.

Machete
2007-10-18, 10:56 AM
With the "knight burning the bridge idea" directly after burning the downstream bridge, burn the way upstream bridge. Push the mount.

cupkeyk
2007-10-18, 12:16 PM
Err hold on, sealed barrels float. They would make excellent flotation aids when added to the trees + door idea. You could even just lash the wounded to one of them and (if you have access to that horse) make a pony barge down the stream.

The Terrin brandy is not in barrels but small casks, like them things on iconic st. bernard chins.

MariettaGecko
2007-10-18, 02:10 PM
Ok, how about this plan...

Weaken the first floor strategically, and rig it to collapse when the redcaps get inside. Set up the basement so that either there is a huge pool of the brandy, or arrange so that the casks will be broken by the falling redcaps. Additionally, set up as many large spiky objects with spikes pointing up, on the floor of the basement. Now, set up the party on the top floor of the building with an escape route. Get as many of the injured out as possible, and headed at maximum speed downstream. Make sure that they cannot be tracked.

Leave all the windows open and available, but put out any fires that the redcaps might try to start. Get the redcaps to enter the structure, and once all or at least most of them are inside, drop the first floor into the basement. At the same time, drop a torch into the basement and evacuate the top floor of the building. Basically, this will cause the redcaps to fall into the basement (falling damage, DR ignored), then they will be caught on fire as the brandy splashes them and catches fire (energy/Fire damage, DR Ignored). And since you removed the ramp/stairs/whatever, they cannot get out of the pit, which means that they are toast, while you pop out the upper windows and clean up the few remaining outside. Try to get them to keep coming in until all but a very few (<10) are outside, and you should be ok. And then, if you collapsed the whole building into the pit, you could bull rush the remaining ones into the pit.

cupkeyk
2007-10-18, 04:13 PM
If the party was just the Marshal4, the Scout3/Ranger2, and the Swash3/Monk2, and the Swordsage4 what ECL 4 character would clinch this encounter with these stat: 16, 14, 12, 12, 10, 8. The knight wants to change characters if he can't survive using his mounted combat feats. He can't use templates nor races outside those of the PHB and their FR or UA variants/subraces without LA nor is he allowed to be a spellcaster. ToB: Bo9S is allowed as well as most other books from WotC including the Races, the Completes, Terrain books(Dungeon, City, Frost, Sand, Storm), and the FR sources.

PlasticSoldier
2007-10-20, 11:55 AM
Would you count Psions as spellcasters?

cupkeyk
2007-10-20, 03:14 PM
Nope, no spellcasting, no psionics, no monster races either. DM's Houserules for this campaign.

cupkeyk
2007-10-28, 07:50 PM
So, we played this finally.

The set-up.

We loosed the fey from the basement and relocated them to the second floor. We boarded up the first floor windows and doors with tables and stuff. We destroyed the stairs leading to the basement and weakened the stairs leading to the second floor. We found a cauldron and chained it to a beam above the stairs, set to drop on a few climbing redcaps and destroy the stairs in the process. I, the scout, swapped my cold arrows in for the thorns sleep arrows. They will stand among the roof beams and shoot redcaps protecting their low ac low hp selves. The knight waited outside and behind the cottage on her warhorse. I used the chimney as cover, shooting from the roof at the redcaps bottlenecking into the cottage. When they were close enough, the knight invoked knights challenge and had a few chase her around. She picked them off easy. When they started pouring in, the swashbuckler monk signaled the thorns among the roof beams to drop the cauldron, killing three redcaps and destroying the stairs. The swash/monk then used his spiked chain and combat reflexes to keep the few red caps that were succeeding their jump checks, tripping them into the hole that lead to the basement. The basement was soon filling up with injured redcaps who can't climb out.

Combat lasted fifteen rounds, the marshal and the swashbuckler/monk reached negative levels and one thorn died. The knight and I never hit single digit hit points. The knight was killing one to three caps a round with great cleave and a mounted lance. I was downing one every other round with my sleep arrows. The redcaps sent four to follow me to the roof but they were dispatched with sleep arrows.

Three of them "escaped" when they failed their jump checks across a five foot but deep stream following the knight's test of mettle. So that's a party of four with three NPC thorns against fifty redcaps. WE WON (with minimal casualties, without our swordsage)!!!!

Thanks for all the help guys.

Leon
2007-10-29, 10:28 AM
Congratz

Sounds like you had a masterful battle plan and it all went soomthly