Are Legendary Animals considered epic?

[Aelar]

Just wanted to make sure, are the legendary animals in MMII, e.g. Legendary Eagle, Legendary Wolf, considered epic?

Also, I just got Exalted Wild Shape and wanted to wild shape into a Celestial Legendary Eagle. As far as I can tell the Legendary animals are still considered animals so there doesn't seem to be any restriction in applying the Celestial template to them. Am I correct in my reasoning?

Thanks

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Nothing about them suggests they're epic. If a creature has over 20 HD, or a caster level above 20, or a CR over 20, or DR/Epic, then it could be considered epic, but that doesn't even change anything. You can apply the Celestial Creature template to epic creatures the same as non-epic creatures as long as it falls within the limitations of the template itself (i.e. any corporeal aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, plant, or vermin of good or neutral alignment). Even if those creatures were considered epic, as long as the HD, size, and creature type is within the limitations of your Wild Shape ability, you can take its form.

[Biggus]

As far as I know, there isn't an epic monster category as such, in the same way that epic feats or epic spells are a separate category.

[Aelar]

Nothing about them suggests they're epic. If a creature has over 20 HD, or a caster level above 20, or a CR over 20, or DR/Epic, then it could be considered epic, but that doesn't even change anything. You can apply the Celestial Creature template to epic creatures the same as non-epic creatures as long as it falls within the limitations of the template itself (i.e. any corporeal aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, plant, or vermin of good or neutral alignment). Even if those creatures were considered epic, as long as the HD, size, and creature type is within the limitations of your Wild Shape ability, you can take its form.

That's great, thanks.


As far as I know, there isn't an epic monster category as such, in the same way that epic feats or epic spells are a separate category.

I saw that the Legendary Tiger and Bear were both part of the Epic Monsters section on d20srd, that's why I wanted to make sure.

[Luckmann]

Wait, you can wild shape into things with the Legendary template? How are you doing that?

[Aelar]

Wait, you can wild shape into things with the Legendary template? How are you doing that?

There is no actual Legendary template, they're simply extraordinary versions of regular animals, essentially a step up from dire animals. The only template that's similar in name is called Monster of Legend (https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/monsterlegend.shtml) but that changes the monster type to outsider.

So essentially they're just regular animals, albeit improved in various ways and therefore there's no reason a Druid can't wildshape into them.

[ShurikVch]

There is no actual Legendary template, they're simply extraordinary versions of regular animals, essentially a step up from dire animals. The only template that's similar in name is called Monster of Legend (https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/monsterlegend.shtml) but that changes the monster type to outsider.

So essentially they're just regular animals, albeit improved in various ways and therefore there's no reason a Druid can't wildshape into them.There were several 3rd-party Legendary Animal templates - such as in GRP Trojan War, or infamous Epic Bestiary; pretty sure there are some more...

Also, not a template, but adventure in one of magazines has Legendary Winter Wolf - IIRR, it was a Winter Wolf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/winterWolf.htm), but with ability scores and HD number of Legendary Wolf

[Luckmann]

There is no actual Legendary template, they're simply extraordinary versions of regular animals, essentially a step up from dire animals. The only template that's similar in name is called Monster of Legend (https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/monsterlegend.shtml) but that changes the monster type to outsider.

So essentially they're just regular animals, albeit improved in various ways and therefore there's no reason a Druid can't wildshape into them.Ah, alright, I was indeed thinking of the Monster of Legend template.

[javcs]

That's great, thanks.



I saw that the Legendary Tiger and Bear were both part of the Epic Monsters section on d20srd, that's why I wanted to make sure.

That's just because they were printed in the Epic Level Handbook, which has a (small) selection of material that is not Epic.
Ie, the Mercane, which is technically ECL 14, but they have 7 RHD and I'm pretty sure that their WotC issue +7 LA is entirely unwarranted. Especially since their WotC issue CR is only 5.


However, it is worth noting that the Legendary Bear has 20 RHD and the Legendary Tiger has 26 RHD.
And most forms of shapeshifting has limits on the amount of RHD of the forms you can turn in to. Usually that limit is going to be either class level based (if a class ability) or cater level based (if a spell).
So ... you probably can't actually turn into one of them until you yourself are into Epic levels.


Edit: However, the "Legendary" animals in MM2, other than the Bear, Tiger, and Shark, all have fewer than 20 RHD and so are available forms at lower levels.