Making weapons less boring/redundant

[Gurifu]

I tried my hand at stealing some keywords from related systems to make 5e's weapon list less boring. Comments, critique, and new ideas welcome.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t-TODv-0j8iSiBTdXha9IF7NE0SL2JQoDimjFIpa0cA/edit#gid=0

My goal, apart from the strength minimums for shortbows and longbows, was that players shouldn't need to remember the keywords to continue using weapons as normal, and NPCs would generally ignore the keywords and just use the attacks in their stat-block. But that by adding keywords, there would be enough variety to make some of the bad (mace, morning-star) or redundant (halberd, longsword) weapons interesting and unique for players to use.

[Crgaston]

This is quite well done, and fun! It's a nominal boost to DPR for martials but a substantial increase in engagement and decision making.

I don't understand why the whip doesn't have Grapple though.

Thanks for posting this!

[KyleG]

That's very well done. Might have to include that.

[Damon_Tor]

Generally: very cool

I have some issues with how unevenly the new properties were distributed. Compare the 1d8/1d10 versatile weapons for example:

Battleaxe: 1d8 Slashing, Versatile (1d10), Backswing
Longsword: 1d8 Slashing, Versatile (1d10), Variable (P)
Warhammer: 1d8 Bludgeoning, Versatile (1d10)


Backswing is an excellent property, constituting a real boost in DPR. I don't see any good reason you would choose either of the other two weapons unless the difference between the physical damage types is far more relevant at your table than is typical. I have the same problem with the shortsword vs the scimitar: why use a shortsword, when the only difference between them is the that the shortsword can do two damage types instead of one, while the scimitar gets advantage against multiple targets.

Misc nitpicks and suggestions:

Sweep, the way it's written, would apply it's advantage to an attack you make even with a different weapon (or even with a spell attack for that matter) against a different target. Unsure if this was intended: it seems a little too good in a dual-wielding scenario right now.
Shove seems underpowered. Suggestion: Consider adding the ability to knock someone prone on a critical hit in addition to the shove-at-reach ability.
The greatclub was given nothing to improve its viability: it still does the same damage as a staff or spear when wielded in two hands, but now both those other weapons have reach as well, increasing its obsolescence. Suggestion: Consider adding a "Crushing" property to both the Greatclub and the Warhammer "Crushing- After you miss a target by 1 with this weapon, that target's AC is reduced by 1 until either its armor is repaired or its natural armor can heal. A creature's AC cannot drop below 10+its dexterity modifier in this way."
Suggestion: Since we've helped out the Warhammer, something extra for the Shortsword, Longsword and Greatsword as well: "Balanced- Opportunity Attacks made with this weapon have advantage" A minor boost compared to the Backswing, Concussive and Sweep abilities those weapons' peers receive, but it gives them a niche for the "defender" archetype, which is fitting for swords.
No love for the Blowgun. Suggestion: To embrace the blowgun's place as the weapon used to minimize damage dealt (while making it ideal for poison application) the following property: "Precise: You do not add your dexterity modifier to damage rolls with this weapon. Instead double your dexterity modifier when you apply it to its attack roll."

[Gurifu]

Thanks for the suggestions and comments!

Re: blowgun, I like the thought, but I think potential +5 to hit breaks Bounded Accuracy a little too hard. Blowgun's kind of a weird weapon that should probably have special rules as the Lance does.

I think giving the blowgun and sling a Nonlethal trait that lets them choose to knock out an opponent with a ranged attack (which I'd have allowed anyway, if a player asked) would be a good start.

Grapple for whips is a great idea, Crgaston.

Fixed the wording for Sweep to make it apply to attacks with the the same weapon.

Added Concussive to the greatclub and warhammer. Your idea sounds thematically good, Damon_Tor, but more accounting than I want to do at my table.

Sweep and Backswing definitely have some overpowered-ness to them that I'd like to iron out. Places like this, having more tools than Advantage with which to give little benefits with would be nice. One major problem with it is that anything that makes getting Advantage easier makes Barbarians weaker vis-a-vis the other pointy stick classes.

--

Another idea for swords, borrowing from yours, Damon_Tor.

Balanced:
This weapon is designed for switching between attack and defense. When you use your Action to Dodge or Disengage, you can attack once with this weapon with Disdadvantage.

[Bjarkmundur]

I like the idea. I did a similar thing by simply introducing crit tables that all do various things based on the damage type. Haven't seen a player make the connection yet, but hopefully someone will in time :D

Piercing: High chance of Injury.
Blugeoning: Chance on knockback or stun. High chance on Injury against heavy armor.
Slashing: Chance on damage over time. High chance of Injury against light armor.

[Gurifu]

I'll need to change Shove. Checking the rules, every melee weapon in the game already has that ability by default. Oops! :smalleek: Automatic shove-on-crit is a good idea.

[Damon_Tor]

Re: blowgun, I like the thought, but I think potential +5 to hit breaks Bounded Accuracy a little too hard.

Maybe, though the loss of any stat to damage and a nigh-irrelevant bit of inherent damage should more than balance it out. Consider that -5 to hit and +10 to damage is considered one of the best feats in the game. This is effectively the inverse, with +5 to attack and -8.5 damage or so.

Alternatively, maybe give it an "untraceable" trait where the user gets to roll a stealth check to remain hidden after attacking with it from cover.


Added Concussive to the greatclub and warhammer. Your idea sounds thematically good, Damon_Tor, but more accounting than I want to do at my table.

Understandable


Sweep and Backswing definitely have some overpowered-ness to them that I'd like to iron out. Places like this, having more tools than Advantage with which to give little benefits with would be nice. One major problem with it is that anything that makes getting Advantage easier makes Barbarians weaker vis-a-vis the other pointy stick classes.

That's important to think about, and I think for that reason backswing (the "axe ability") should be reworked to be less directly related to advantage, seeing as axes are the archtypical barbarian weapon.

How about "Backswing- When you miss a target with this weapon, your next attack against that target with this weapon scores a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20" The ability is less-good in a vacuum, but it syncs much better with the barbarian class features in particular.


Another idea for swords, borrowing from yours, Damon_Tor.

Balanced:
This weapon is designed for switching between attack and defense. When you use your Action to Dodge or Disengage, you can attack once with this weapon with Disdadvantage.

That's pretty good. Less defendery and more skirmishery than what I came up with. I guess I see spears as the archtypical skirmisher weapon, not swords. But I acknowledge that's all just narrativism talking, so entirely subjective.

[gkathellar]

I have to echo the critique of backswing, not just because it's strong, but also because it makes axes desirable for fighters in particular (since they have many attacks to miss with) and undesirable for barbarians in particular (since they already get advantage). That feels wrong.

I'm not sure what you'd replace it with, but I think you should aim for something that makes axes feel hard-hitting, rather than extra-accurate - more in keeping with the way most players are going to expect axes to behave.

[Bjarkmundur]

Axes feel perfect for increased damage against prone targets. They are slower and deal more damage the more time you have to swing, making prone creatures ideal targets, like an executor's axe.

[Bundin]

Very well done. However, I'd not use anything that gives advantage (that's what class features and inspiration are for), or increased crit range (also a class feature, and smites don't need more of that).

[Gurifu]

I like the idea of tying axes to following up on shoving. Maybe delete Backswing and replace with...

'Finishing: When you succeed on a Shove attack, you may make an attack with this weapon as a bonus action, targeting the character you shoved.'

[Yukito01]

Nice ideas!

One small point. I am not sure how fair it is to require Strength for using bows, considering that characters either pump Dex or Str, not both. I can sort of understand where you're coming from, but imposing disadvantage seems too much. How about pumping up those values and only giving the damage bonus if the Strength score is greater than that?

[Damon_Tor]

Nice ideas!

One small point. I am not sure how fair it is to require Strength for using bows, considering that characters either pump Dex or Str, not both. I can sort of understand where you're coming from, but imposing disadvantage seems too much. How about pumping up those values and only giving the damage bonus if the Strength score is greater than that?

Quite a few people houserule str requirements for bows: the reality is, bows legitimately require a great deal of strength to use. All the force the bow imparts on that arrow was stored as tension in that bow by you pulling it back, a "rowing" motion which you then have to hold at the apex, and hold steady.

Of course crossbows also require strength. Even an advanced crossbow with a crank or lever is an exercise in athleticism, and most crossbows would have been held in place with one foot and drawn tight with a "deadlift" motion.

I don't think any of that is necessary to model in D&D, but for those who like the simulationism aspects, I get the argument.