Body Outside Binder?

[ekarney]

Hello, as I stated in a previous thread, I'm playing a Wu Jen/Binder who's then going into Anima Mage followed by Incantatrix

Playing a Wu Jen it's come to my attention that my clones from Body Outside Body also share my class levels with the only catch being that they can't cast spells, and have 1/4 my current HP. Would this mean my 'clones' have access to soul binding, and if so how would that work? Could they bind their own vestiges? Are they stuck with whatever I bound that morning?

This is obviously assuming I can keep them in existence long enough to actually bind something themselves.

[Kelb_Panthera]

BOB was written before every other alternate system in 3e except maybe the older version of psionics. Consequently, anything like this is an unexpected corner case and, thus, up to the individual GM to decide.

Going strictly by the text of the spell, it only shuts off spells, spell trigger, and spell completion. Because they're cast as arcane spells, Shadow Magic Mysteries are shut down unless you're high enough level that they've shifted to SLAs. Arguably, the transparency rules for psionics means it shuts that down too. It makes no mention of the mechanics surrounding any other alternate system and so they stay on.

As for how it functions with active vestiges and the soulbinding class feature;

An extended BOB clone would be able to activate his soulbinding feature, provided you have either a slot open for a vestige or have the ability to expell one to make room.

I'd rule that since the clones are supposed to be indistinguishable and vestiges are by no means limited in how many creatures they're bound to that the bindings you have simply carry over to your clones.

[Jack_Simth]

unless you're high enough level that they've shifted to SLAs.
Arguably, spell-like abilities are shut down too, due to the line in the definition of Spell-Like Abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities) that says "In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell" - and interaction with things like Body Outside Body is not on the list of exceptions.

It's arguable, though, and by no means certain.

[ekarney]

BOB was written before every other alternate system in 3e except maybe the older version of psionics. Consequently, anything like this is an unexpected corner case and, thus, up to the individual GM to decide.



I mean BOB was updated in Complete Arcane, though I think that was still in place at least a year before most other system. Though I'd say soul-binding would probably be compatible, since it's really pretty far removed from actual casting. Plus a lot of vestiges just grant straight up Su abilities as opposed to SLA's.

Though here's a nasty combo that I just thought up, the clones share my class levels, and skill levels, which means once I have access to Incantatrix 3, theoretically, my clones should be able to attempt to perform Metamagic Effect on themselves in order to persist themselves, and then follow me around using cooperative metamagic on my other spells.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I mean BOB was updated in Complete Arcane, though I think that was still in place at least a year before most other system. Though I'd say soul-binding would probably be compatible, since it's really pretty far removed from actual casting. Plus a lot of vestiges just grant straight up Su abilities as opposed to SLA's.

Though here's a nasty combo that I just thought up, the clones share my class levels, and skill levels, which means once I have access to Incantatrix 3, theoretically, my clones should be able to attempt to perform Metamagic Effect on themselves in order to persist themselves, and then follow me around using cooperative metamagic on my other spells.

It was "updated" like most everything else in the completes: checked for reference to rules changed in the 3.0-3.5 changeover, formatting cleaned up, and (in nearly all cases) reprinted without alteration or consideration to mechanics outside of core and the book it was in. BOB in particular is nearly the exact same except for a few sentence fragments removed, presumably for space concerns.

Using metamagic effect to make persistent clones is a clever idea though. Makes a wu-jen jade phoenix mage with an incantatrix dip into a party unto himself. :smalltongue:

[Efrate]

Leave most your binds unbound. Do your BoB shenanigans. Each clone then has all empty slots. Have them each bind what you want, then you bind what you. Most binder abilities are Su, so it shouldn't be an issue.