[3.5] Does Master Spellthief work with Warlock?

[Mr Adventurer]

If so, Warlock 1 would be a good dip for the unlimited ranged touch attack and an invocation.

If MS works, the Eldritch Blast caster level will keep up with your character level - which is important for SR but also, I believe, means it scales it's damage as though you were straight Warlock?

[NNescio]

If so, Warlock 1 would be a good dip for the unlimited ranged touch attack and an invocation.

If MS works, the Eldritch Blast caster level will keep up with your character level - which is important for SR but also, I believe, means it scales it's damage as though you were straight Warlock?

No.

"Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells."

EB is an SLA, not an arcane spell.

[Falontani]

Warlocks benefit in a specific way from prestige classes that have “+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class” or “+1 level of existing spellcasting class” as a level advancement benefit. A warlock taking levels in such a prestige class does not gain any of his class abilities, but he does gain an increased caster level when using his invocations and increased damage with his eldritch blast. Levels of prestige classes that provide +1 level of spellcasting effectively stack with the warlock’s level to determine his eldritch blast damage (treat his combined caster level as his warlock class level when looking at Table 1–1: The Warlock to determine eldritch blast damage) and his eldritch blast caster level (half his total caster level from his warlock levels and his levels in the prestige class that grant him an increased spellcasting level). A warlock also gains new invocations known at these prestige class levels as though he had gained a level in the warlock class.

1. Warlocks are Arcane Spellcasters, so for Master Spellthief they can not qualify for the second level spells bit, but they absolutely qualify as arcane spellcaster levels and thus do grant a boost to your overall caster level.

2. Invocations and Eldritch Blast are spell like abilities.... ish. They still are hampered from Arcane Spell Failure. Normal Spell Like Abilities do not. So these are one step away from spell like abilities and one step away from spells. They are IMO "Arcane Spell Like Abilities" or just you know "Invocations"

[javcs]

IIRC, there's something, somewhere about Practiced Spellcaster increasing Eldritch Blast damage dice.

Which would be supporting precedent for Master Spellthief working to do the same.

It's not explicitly RAW, but I'd allow it. I mean, you're either dipping Warlock as a Spellthief, or you're dipping both of them as some other kind of arcane caster.

[Troacctid]

IIRC, there's something, somewhere about Practiced Spellcaster increasing Eldritch Blast damage dice.

Which would be supporting precedent for Master Spellthief working to do the same.

It's not explicitly RAW, but I'd allow it. I mean, you're either dipping Warlock as a Spellthief, or you're dipping both of them as some other kind of arcane caster.
Nope, nothing to that effect anywhere. In fact Practiced Spellcaster is very explicit that it only improves caster level and nothing else.

[javcs]

Nope, nothing to that effect anywhere. In fact Practiced Spellcaster is very explicit that it only improves caster level and nothing else.

Might've been something in feedback from WotC or a relevant writer. Can't remember the sourcing details offhand, though.
So ... semi-official, at best. Just enough where, if the original source could be tracked down, a DM could go either way on it, with no way to know in advance.

Or, I suppose I could be misremembering somebody making a house rule on the matter.


--

Check with your DM is always sound advice when it comes to things that aren't clearly and definitively laid out in the RAW.

And Master Spellthief boosting Eldritch Blast damage is definitely not RAW.

[Troacctid]

In this case it is clearly and definitively laid out in the RAW. Eldritch blast damage does not scale with caster level.

[Mr Adventurer]

I think there's a section of the rules in Complete Arcane about how Prestige Classes that advance caster level work, where it specifies that EB damage does increase. Let me check.

[Luckmann]

It is a very common house rule that Warlocks scale by caster level and I think that they should scale by caster level, but by RAW they simply don't, and it's one of those reasons that Warlocks are often hard pressed to dip into or out of things.

If you have a DM, talk to them about it, because I absolutely think that Warlocks should have an implicit caster level which would determine how their abilities scale, but I also think that Monks should be Full BAB and I still failed to convince my fairly lenient DM.

[Mr Adventurer]

In this case it is clearly and definitively laid out in the RAW. Eldritch blast damage does not scale with caster level.


I think there's a section of the rules in Complete Arcane about how Prestige Classes that advance caster level work, where it specifies that EB damage does increase. Let me check.

OK, yeah, it talks about how Warlocks benefit from "+1 level of existing (arcane) spellcasting" in PrCs. That increases caster level, EB damage, and invocations known. Unless there's something else I'm missing, that's probably what I was confused by.

[RedWarlock]

Nope, nothing to that effect anywhere. In fact Practiced Spellcaster is very explicit that it only improves caster level and nothing else.

Nothing official, but the writer of the book has said he would allow PS to increase EB damage. It's a common house rule, in my experience.

[LentilNinja]

Might've been something in feedback from WotC or a relevant writer. Can't remember the sourcing details offhand, though.

I'm sure it came from a Q&A with a D&D writer for either just the Warlock class or Complete Arcane, where he said he thinks EB should have been scaled off caster level rather than character level.

By RAW, it's character level. But if you look in some online Warlock handbooks, I'm sure one of them has a link to the Q&A.