[3.5] Weapon Finesse +

[Thurbane]

So, Weapon Finesse: decent for melee characters with higher Dex than Str (generally, Rogues and such).

It applies to all light weapons, and a handful of other designated weapons (rapier, spiked chain etc.).

But I'm looking into other methods of applying it to weapons, especially weapons that can't normally benefit from the feat.


Balanced Blades (Ex) (Corsair PrC level 8 ability, Dragon 321 p.86): it allows the corsair to treat any one-handed weapon for which he has Weapon Focus as light, which therefore means Weapon Finesse applies to it. (Can only be unarmored or light armored).
Feycraft (weapon template) (DMG2 p.274): when applied to a one handed weapon, allows it to be treated as light, and thus can be used with finesse. (* also allows you to use Dex modifier to attack when applied to a light weapon, even if you don't have Weapon Finesse).
Finesse (weapon property, +3 equivalent, ECS p.266): can only be applied to a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain, and allows you to use the weapon with finesse even if you lack the feat. Also gives +2 enhancement bonus to Dex.
Graceful Edge feat (Dungeon # 128): situationally allows a one handed slashing weapon to be treated as light.
Improved Finesse (Ex) (Khayal Genie racial ability, ToM p.163): apply finesse to any weapon they wield one handed.
Monkey Grip (feat) (CW p.103): wield a larger light weapon as if it were a light weapon for your size.
Monkey King Staff (Ex) (Monkey Shen PrC level 3 ability, Dragon 319 p.72) allows you to use both ends of the quarterstaff with Weapon Finesse.
Slashing Blades (Dervish PrC level 1 ability, CW p.25): treat a scimitar as a light weapon. Arguably, could extend to all "scimitars" (double scimitar, great scimitar etc.)
Weapon Finesse (Ex) (Iajutsu Master PrC level 1 ability, OA p.41): apply finesse to a katana.

Other finess-able weapons:

Chain (OA)
Dragonsplit (MM4)
Drow Scoprion Chain (SoX)
Elven Courtblade (RotW)
Elven Thinblade (RotW)
Kawanga (OA)
Lynxpaw (RotW)
Quickblade Rapier (CAd)
Rapier (PHB)
Ribbonweave (MoE)
Spiked Chain (PHB)
Spinning Sword (SoS)
Stingray Whip (St)
Whip (PHB)

Other finesse stuff:

Inlindl School (feat) (DoTU p.56) allows you to switch shield bonuses to attack bonuses if the weapon is one to which Weapon Finesse applies.
Insightful Strike (Ex) (Swashbuckler class level 3 ability, CW p.11): add extra damage when using finesse.
Shadow Blade (feat) (ToB p.32): you can use this feat to qualify for anything requiring Weapon Finesse. Add Dex modifier to damage when in a Shadow Hand stance. (*You can use the Shadow Hands magic item from ToB to help with the reqs for this feat)
Companion Guard Style (feat) (Dragon 315 p.52): you can use your Dex modifier to attack when using a longsword or longspear. Not exactly the same as Weapon Finesse, buy functions similarly. Comes with some other benefits and drawbacks as well. Greyhawk regional/elf feat.

Dex to damage stuff:

I'll add this section when I get a chance.

...looking for more Weapon Finesse related stuff or ways to use it with other weapons.

Cheers - T

[Silvercrys]

Is Dragon Magazine allowed?

Champion of Corellon Larethian from Races of the Wild has a bunch of feat taxes to get into, but at class level 2 it gives you Dex to damage (explicitly stacking with Strength). Only for certain Elf-associated weapons though.

Hit-and-Run Tactics Fighter from Drow of the Underdark gives you Dex to damage against flat-footed enemies at level 1.

The Fierce enchantment is pretty awful, it's a +2 that gives you ability to reduce your Dex to AC and apply the reduction as a bonus to damage rolls. From the A&EG.

There's also a Sword of Graceful Strikes in the A&EG that gives Dex to damage, but it's a "unique" weapon.

Edit: the +1 weapon enhancement "Aptitude" from Tome of Battle might let you apply Weapon Finesse (Short Sword) to an Aptitude Greatsword. If it can let you apply Hammer-only feats to Daggers in a way that makes no sense I see no reason it couldn't let you do that. Might need to invest in a Ring of Book Evasion though.

[animewatcha]

Dervish says all scimitars are treated as light weapons.

[Thurbane]

Thanks for the suggestions: I might add the Dex to damage stuff later.

But, that's it? No other exploits or expanded uses for Weapon Finesse? I honestly thought there would be more...

[Saintheart]

The 6th level of the PrC Monkey Shen (Dragon 319) allows you to use both ends of the quarterstaff with Weapon Finesse.

Also, indirectly, there's the 8th level of Corsair (Dragon 321): it allows the corsair to treat any one-handed weapon for which he has Weapon Focus as light, which therefore means Weapon Finesse applies to it. (Can only be unarmored or light armored). Corsair 9 allows you to add DEX to damage, i.e. would likely stack with ToB's Shadow Blade.

Inlindl School (DoTU) allows you to switch shield bonuses to attack bonuses if the weapon is one to which Weapon Finesse applies.

[Thurbane]

One last bump for suggestions...

[Handsome_Jack]

Gnomish Quickrazor from Races of Stone is another niche Finesse weapon. Makes for a nasty Iaijutsu Focus weapon, since it naturally sheathes itself as part of the attack action while using it.

[Luckmann]

One thing that was recently brought up in another thread is that you can (generally) use items to qualify for prerequisites. This is especially notable in this case, because the only prerequisite for the Shadow Blade feat is "one shadow hand stance", which is usually annoying to qualify for, because it either requires you to take a level of Swordsage or to spend two feats (Martial Study & Martial Stance).

However, there is a very cheap pair of gloves in Tome of Battle, Shadow Hands, 3000gp, which can be used to qualify by taking a stance. If you have a good pitch and a nice DM, you might even be able to make them slotless by doubling the price to 6000gp, which is still a steal.

[Silvercrys]

Well, there's some Dragon Mag content I can point you towards but I think that's ~most of the first party stuff, I pulled my earlier list from ye olde X stat to Y bonus from the minmaxforum, these are from that list too just tagged as dragon mag content.

Companion Guard Style (Dragon #315) will give you Dex to attack rolls with Longspears and Longswords. Has elf flavor and some other small bonuses, could pair with Champion of Corellon Larethian if you don't mind the feat requirements there.

Dead Eye from the Dragon Compendium (originally #304) gives Dex to damage on top of Str with ranged weapons, but only within 30 feet.

There's also some stuff like Tactile Trapsmith from Complete Adventurer that gives Dex to Disable Device instead of Int, and a way to use Dex for bonus spells with any casting class (Illumian race) if those are of interest.

I'll just link the x to y thread, heh.

http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=4369

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus

Looks like they're mostly the same information, but the GitP thread has some Pathfinder stuff included so be careful of that if it's not allowed at your table.

[Thurbane]

OK, thank for the suggestions. Looks like there just isn't as much Weapon Finesse related stuff out there as I thought.

[RedMage125]

I'm AFB at the moment, but I believe that in Eberron, binding an Air Elemental to a weapon makes it able to be used with Finesse.

[Jowgen]

Note on Feycraft, other than making one handed weapons finessable, it also straight up lets you use Dex to atk with light weapons.

[Silvercrys]

I'm AFB at the moment, but I believe that in Eberron, binding an Air Elemental to a weapon makes it able to be used with Finesse.The Finesse property kind of does this, but it's a +3 that you can only place on a weapon that is already finesseable. Feels like they way overrated what Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat is worth to me.

If that wasn't what you're talking about I'd be super interested, it's the only reference to binding air elementals to weapons I could find.

[RedMage125]

The Finesse property kind of does this, but it's a +3 that you can only place on a weapon that is already finesseable. Feels like they way overrated what Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat is worth to me.

If that wasn't what you're talking about I'd be super interested, it's the only reference to binding air elementals to weapons I could find.

It's either in the Eberron Campaign Setting or Magic of Eberron that mentions binding an Air Elemental into a weapon. I'm AFB, like I said.

[Luckmann]

It's either in the Eberron Campaign Setting or Magic of Eberron that mentions binding an Air Elemental into a weapon. I'm AFB, like I said.Yes, you're almost certainly thinking about the Finesse property, which is described as being a small air elemental bound to a weapon. Pg. 266 of Eberron Campaign Setting. I couldn't find anything similar in Magic of Eberron.

It counts as a +3 bonus, and can only be applied to light weapons, rapiers, whips, and spiked chains. It allows you to use the weapon as if you had the Weapon Finesse feat, even if you don't. It also gives a +2 enchantment bonus to dexterity. Benefits only apply when the weapon is of a size appropriate for the user.

It's ridiculously overpriced for what it does, and I can't imagine it ever being worth the price or effort involved. If you want to use any of those specific weapons with Dexterity, you've likely already gotten Weapon Finesse long before you can afford a +4 weapon anyway, and if you depend on Dexterity, the +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity is going to be wasted as soon as you acquire higher. What a complete and utter waste, I have no idea what they were thinking. This'd barely be worth it at +1.