Highest Proficiency Bonus Possible or highest you've had?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

This question came across my mind daydreaming about leveling up my Bard.

What's the highest single proficiency bonus possible in 5e?

And

What's the highest you really see?

I don't, but think knows what's the most proficiency points you can have over all the choices with a point buy character?!?

[stoutstien]

This question came across my mind daydreaming about leveling up my Bard.

What's the highest single proficiency bonus possible in 5e?

And

What's the highest you really see?

I don't, but think knows what's the most proficiency points you can have over all the choices with a point buy character?!?
Are you talking about proficiency bonus or ablity/skill bonus?

[FilthyLucre]

This question came across my mind daydreaming about leveling up my Bard.

What's the highest single proficiency bonus possible in 5e?

And

What's the highest you really see?

I don't, but think knows what's the most proficiency points you can have over all the choices with a point buy character?!?

The answer to your question is "+6" because you don't realize that you're not asking the question that you think you are.

The answer to the question what is the highest combined bonus you can get on a skill check is probably +11, or +13 in the case of a 20th level barbarian, and +17 in the case of a character with expertise.

[darknite]

The highest proficiency bonus in 5e is 6. Abilities like Expertise allow you to double that to 12.

[stoutstien]

The highest proficiency bonus in 5e is 6. Abilities like Expertise allow you to double that to 12.

Small correction. Ioun stones of mastery is a flat +1 to Prof bonus

[ProsecutorGodot]

By default, Proficiency caps at +6. There is an Ioun Stone (Legendary) that increases your proficiency bonus by an additional +1.

If you mean skill modifier, a level 20 character attuned to Hammer of Thunderbolts (and the other prerequisites) can achieve a Strength score of 30. If they're also attuned to this Ioun Stone and have expertise in Athletics they can achieve a modifier of +24 (+10 from Strength 30, +14 from Proficiency).

Pass Without a Trace can give a dextrous level 20 character an even higher bonus of at least +30 to Stealth (+5 from Dex 22[using a +2 manual], +14 from Proficiency and +10 pass without a trace)

[MarkVIIIMarc]

By default, Proficiency caps at +6. There is an Ioun Stone (Legendary) that increases your proficiency bonus by an additional +1.

If you mean skill modifier, a level 20 character attuned to Hammer of Thunderbolts (and the other prerequisites) can achieve a Strength score of 30. If they're also attuned to this Ioun Stone and have expertise in Athletics they can achieve a modifier of +24 (+10 from Strength 30, +14 from Proficiency).

Pass Without a Trace can give a dextrous level 20 character an even higher bonus of at least +30 to Stealth (+5 from Dex 22[using a +2 manual], +14 from Proficiency and +10 pass without a trace)

You all are totally right. I mean skill modifier. Sloppy language on my part.

+30 is pretty impressive!

[strangebloke]

The answer is +6. That's as high as proficiency bonuses go.

The highest total modifier you can get is basically infinite if magic items are allowed.

Lots of classes can get high enough that additional modifiers are meaninless. A Barbarian with 24+ STR, advantage on STR checks, and expertise, is going to be averaging 30-something on every atheltics check which is more than you ever should need. Redemption paladin's achieve a similar effect with diplomacy.

But for the highest, you can't beat a ranger in stealth.

Highest possible (without magic items or boons)
Ranger 20

expertise (+12)
pass without trace (+10)
Dexterity (+5)
Hide in Plain Sight (+10)
Guidance (+4 at best)
Bardic Inspiration (+12 at best)

Total: +53

[nickl_2000]

Doesn't the luckstone give you an additional +1 to skill checks? That could bump the number a tiny bit more.

[strangebloke]

Doesn't the luckstone give you an additional +1 to skill checks? That could bump the number a tiny bit more.

Without magic items.

With magic items, you can get manuals etc. to get really really high modifiers.

For the highest I've seen in game, it was +16 before pwt.

[ezekielraiden]

Proficiency itself, as noted, caps at +6. Some features allow you to double it, for a max of +12. (AFAICT, all of these sources cannot stack, so you can't get triple/quadruple/etc.) In general, you can't get more than +5 from high ability score, though there are certain exceptions (e.g. high-level Barbarians can get +7 in Strength and Constitution). A Human (or half-elf/half-orc) could conceivably get a total of +19 to Athletics (+6 proficiency, doubled by Expertise from the Prodigy feat, +7 from 24 Strength). If a Cleric or Paladin gives them bless, they can get another +1d4, for a total of +23 if you roll well. I don't know of any other spell-based sources of bonuses, nor any alternative options (e.g. different classes or something) that would provide anything further.

So it looks like the highest modifier you can get to a regular skill roll is +23, unless I have missed something.

Edit: Sounds like the Luckstone is something I missed. So +24, with magic items.

Edit II: Oh duh! Bardic Inspiration. That's a further +12 if you roll super well, so a total of +36 for a fantastically well-rolled result. Throw in a Diviner Wizard giving you a guaranteed 20, and it's conceivable that you could have a natural crit with +36 to the roll for a total of 56, if you're that lucky.

[Nhorianscum]

The answer is +6. That's as high as proficiency bonuses go.

The highest total modifier you can get is basically infinite if magic items are allowed.

Lots of classes can get high enough that additional modifiers are meaninless. A Barbarian with 24+ STR, advantage on STR checks, and expertise, is going to be averaging 30-something on every atheltics check which is more than you ever should need. Redemption paladin's achieve a similar effect with diplomacy.

But for the highest, you can't beat a ranger in stealth.

Highest possible (without magic items or boons)
Ranger 20

expertise (+12)
pass without trace (+10)
Dexterity (+5)
Hide in Plain Sight (+10)
Guidance (+4 at best)
Bardic Inspiration (+12 at best)

Total: +53

*screams in bend luck and dragonmarks*

*Calmly raises number to 63*

[supergoji18]

The highest possible proficiency bonus is +9 (+6 at level 20, 3 Ioun Stones of Mastery which each give +1 to your proficiency bonus each). Since the stones require attunement, you can't have more than 3 at a time.

EDIT: That's for PCs only. If you allow NPCs/Monsters to use magic items and attune to them, the highest possible is +12, with +9 at CR 30 and then the 3 Ioun Stones of Mastery.

[Fable Wright]

*screams in bend luck and dragonmarks*

*Calmly raises number to 63*

If you multiclass, Dark One's Own Luck. +73.

If you add back in Magic Items, that's another +7 from Ioun Stone of Mastery and 30 dex, which brings us to a max stealth roll of 100 if the stars align.

[ezekielraiden]

Remember guys--bounded accuracy, no more stacking ridiculous bonuses! </sarcasm>

[Nhorianscum]

If you multiclass, Dark One's Own Luck. +73.

I'll raise you a dreams druid for +78 >.> and a theoretical level of Divine soul for +86 <.<

[MagneticKitty]

Pass Without a Trace can give a dextrous level 20 character an even higher bonus of at least +30 to Stealth (+5 from Dex 22[using a +2 manual], +14 from Proficiency and +10 pass without a trace)

Dreams druid level 6 ability gives a +5 stealth bonus to things within 30 feet when placed down. It also gives +5 perception... so if you're hiding in it and the enemy is looking for you while inside it cancels out.
But that's +35 in an ideal world.

Edit: I hadn't read the latest... we're up to plus 78?! Wow

[strangebloke]

Yeah, I knew I was missing a couple of bonuses.

Ah well.

TBH anything above a +15 just isn't really going to come up. sometimes it will come up for stealth, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

[nickl_2000]

Remember guys--bounded accuracy, no more stacking ridiculous bonuses! </sarcasm>

Stop bring realism into this! :smallbiggrin:

If we can theorycraft a character that can easily lift and throw an elephant, we can do this too.

[Rukelnikov]

The highest possible proficiency bonus is +9 (+6 at level 20, 3 Ioun Stones of Mastery which each give +1 to your proficiency bonus each). Since the stones require attunement, you can't have more than 3 at a time.

EDIT: That's for PCs only. If you allow NPCs/Monsters to use magic items and attune to them, the highest possible is +12, with +9 at CR 30 and then the 3 Ioun Stones of Mastery.

You don't benefit from more than one item with the same name (i'm not even sure you can attune to a second copy of one), so you don't get to stack the Ioun Stones of mastery.

If the question is the highest possible modifier for any attribute roll at all, im prety sure we can break the hundred, ill try to.

[Nhorianscum]

Dreams druid level 6 ability gives a +5 stealth bonus to things within 30 feet when placed down. It also gives +5 perception... so if you're hiding in it and the enemy is looking for you while inside it cancels out.
But that's +35 in an ideal world.

Edit: I hadn't read the latest... we're up to plus 78?! Wow

+86. I remembered divine soul 1 existed...

13 more to go till 100 on a 1...

Edit: (+5 slippers, mastery stone, luckstone, 30 dex nets +99 here)

Edit again: With UA we can add scout fighter for another d6? I'm tapped out.

[Zuras]

Highest effective skill modifier I’ve seen matter in practice was a 9th level Rogue with Gloves of Thievery.

With expertise in Sleight of Hand and Stealth he managed to steal an Iron Flask with a Primordial in it during the handoff between two rival factions and trick them into fighting each other. +18 to SoH and +13 to stealth.

By tier 3 and 4 skill specialists seldom need to actually roll in their areas of specialty. Reliable Talent basically means rogues never fail a stealth check again, and the only foes that might challenge a grappler’s opposed skill checks are probably too big to grapple.

[Damon_Tor]

With magic items, you can get manuals etc. to get really really high modifiers.

If you don't age, via racial or class features, or can bypass aging by spells such as Clone, you could theoretically gain an arbitrary amount of any attribute using these books simply by waiting 100 years between readings.

[Yunru]

Highest stat to date is 30.
Highest proficiency score to date is +9.
Thus highest total modifier with the current upper limits would be +29? (With a +1 from a stone.)

[ThePolarBear]

Highest stat to date is 30.
Highest proficiency score to date is +9.

This is correct. In theory any humanoid with cr 30 (and thus a possible prof score of +9) is also a possible stepstone for magic jar tricks - feature combination tricks.
I have no idea if one such humanoid has ever been published, but in theory...

[strangebloke]

If you don't age, via racial or class features, or can bypass aging by spells such as Clone, you could theoretically gain an arbitrary amount of any attribute using these books simply by waiting 100 years between readings.

Right that's my point. There's functionally no limit on how high you can push your stats if magic items, all magic items are on the table.

Whenever it gets pointed out that with extreme cheese magic items totally break the game, people like to backpedal and say "Well, magic items if they're used as intended in a real game" in which case... well, there's a broad range of what that sort of qualifier means.

[Rukelnikov]

Right that's my point. There's functionally no limit on how high you can push your stats if magic items, all magic items are on the table.

Whenever it gets pointed out that with extreme cheese magic items totally break the game, people like to backpedal and say "Well, magic items if they're used as intended in a real game" in which case... well, there's a broad range of what that sort of qualifier means.

Not really, stats are hard capped at 30

[stoutstien]

Not really, stats are hard capped at 30

Laughs in true polymorph.

[Rukelnikov]

Laughs in true polymorph.

Laugh all you want, you are still not going above 30

[MaxWilson]

The highest possible proficiency bonus is +9 (+6 at level 20, 3 Ioun Stones of Mastery which each give +1 to your proficiency bonus each). Since the stones require attunement, you can't have more than 3 at a time.

EDIT: That's for PCs only. If you allow NPCs/Monsters to use magic items and attune to them, the highest possible is +12, with +9 at CR 30 and then the 3 Ioun Stones of Mastery.

If you take over a CR 30 humanoid's body via Magic Jar, you too can get that +12.

[Rukelnikov]

If you take over a CR 30 humanoid's body via Magic Jar, you too can get that +12.

Mastery Ioun Stones dont stack

[Spiritchaser]

Stealth bonuses can be stratospheric...

Less high, though still potentially disturbing, are perception bonuses, particularly with passives.

Expertise and observant on a high wis character are a useful but fairly nondescript +22 on a level 20 character (32 on that passive score) but if you can arrange advantage on your roll, then on a passive roll, that extra dice switches to an extra +5
That would theoretically be a passive perception of base 10+27.

I haven’t actually seen this at level 20, but even at level 10-15 you won’t usually miss much

[MaxWilson]

Mastery Ioun Stones dont stack

Hmmm, you're probably right. +10 then, until the DM invents a CR 50 monster.

[Damon_Tor]

Not really, stats are hard capped at 30

I'm having trouble finding that. It sounds right, but I can't actually find that rule. Most game elements that increase maximum ability scores give a limit they cannot go beyond, but the various "manuals" do not.

[MaxWilson]

I'm having trouble finding that. It sounds right, but I can't actually find that rule. Most game elements that increase maximum ability scores give a limit they cannot go beyond, but the various "manuals" do not.

People who make this claim are usually referring to the Ability Scores and Modifiers section of the PHB:

Ability Scores and Modifiers
Each of a creature’s abilities has a score, a number that defines the magnitude of that ability. An ability score is not just a measure of innate capabilities, but also encompasses a creature’s training and competence in activities related to that ability. A score of 10 or 11 is the normal human average, but adventurers and many monsters are a cut above average in most abilities. A score of 18 is the highest that a person usually reaches. Adventurers can have scores as high as 20, and monsters and divine beings can have scores as high as 30. Each ability also has a modifier, derived from the score and ranging from ?5 (for an ability score of 1) to +10 (for a score of 30). The Ability Scores and Modifiers table notes the ability modifiers for the range of possible ability scores, from 1 to 30. To determine an ability modifier without consulting the table, subtract 10 from the ability score and then divide the total by 2 (round down). Because ability modifiers affect almost every attack roll, ability check, and saving throw, ability modifiers come up in play more often than their associated scores.

It's up to you how seriously you take that clause. If you want to make a giant as large as a mountain and give him a Strength of 1000, knock yourself out.

[Sigreid]

Without any magic items, and RAW, I believe the cap for a weapon attack bonus would be a devotion paladin with a 30 str and 30 cha using his holy weapon channel divinity for a +26 to hit. But AFB.

[Keravath]

I'm having trouble finding that. It sounds right, but I can't actually find that rule. Most game elements that increase maximum ability scores give a limit they cannot go beyond, but the various "manuals" do not.

PHB p173

"Adventurers can have scores as high as 20, and monsters and divine beings can have scores as high as 30."
"The Ability Scores and Modifiers table notes the ability modifiers for the range of possible ability scores. from 1 to 30."

RAW the cap is 30. DMs may decide otherwise of course.

[Rukelnikov]

People who make this claim are usually referring to the Ability Scores and Modifiers section of the PHB:

Ability Scores and Modifiers
Each of a creature’s abilities has a score, a number that defines the magnitude of that ability. An ability score is not just a measure of innate capabilities, but also encompasses a creature’s training and competence in activities related to that ability. A score of 10 or 11 is the normal human average, but adventurers and many monsters are a cut above average in most abilities. A score of 18 is the highest that a person usually reaches. Adventurers can have scores as high as 20, and monsters and divine beings can have scores as high as 30. Each ability also has a modifier, derived from the score and ranging from ?5 (for an ability score of 1) to +10 (for a score of 30). The Ability Scores and Modifiers table notes the ability modifiers for the range of possible ability scores, from 1 to 30. To determine an ability modifier without consulting the table, subtract 10 from the ability score and then divide the total by 2 (round down). Because ability modifiers affect almost every attack roll, ability check, and saving throw, ability modifiers come up in play more often than their associated scores.

It's up to you how seriously you take that clause. If you want to make a giant as large as a mountain and give him a Strength of 1000, knock yourself out.

Yup, that's exactly what i was referring. Consider though that the tarrasque itself has 30 Str, so I find it hard to allow a PC with more than that, or pretty much any other creature. If I were to remove the cap, I guess I'd have to review some of the monsters.

[Rukelnikov]

Without any magic items, and RAW, I believe the cap for a weapon attack bonus would be a devotion paladin with a 30 str and 30 cha using his holy weapon channel divinity for a +26 to hit. But AFB.

Make that 2 War Cleric lvl dip for another +10 :D

[MaxWilson]

Without any magic items, and RAW, I believe the cap for a weapon attack bonus would be a devotion paladin with a 30 str and 30 cha using his holy weapon channel divinity for a +26 to hit. But AFB.

If he's a Paladorc, he could also cast Elemental Weapon VII before using Sacred Weapon to get +29 to-hit, total. And of course he could get advantage from Foresight/Greater Invisibility/whatever. Edit: Rukelnikov's idea would make it +39.


PHB p173

"Adventurers can have scores as high as 20, and monsters and divine beings can have scores as high as 30."
"The Ability Scores and Modifiers table notes the ability modifiers for the range of possible ability scores. from 1 to 30."

RAW the cap is 30. DMs may decide otherwise of course.

Yeah, PCs already break the 20 cap under some circumstances (Barb 20, Manuals of stat-boosting) so there absolutely is precedent for treating these statements as descriptive, not prescriptive.


Yup, that's exactly what i was referring. Consider though that the tarrasque itself has 30 Str, so I find it hard to allow a PC with more than that, or pretty much any other creature. If I were to remove the cap, I guess I'd have to review some of the monsters.

Meh. The Tarrasque isn't even supposed to be the toughest monster. By AD&D lore, it's just "the most dreaded monster native to the Prime Material plane," and that's mostly because it's nigh-unkillable and has an unlimited-range fear aura, so armies cannot kill it. The 5E Tarrasque is much weaker and doesn't even deserve to be more feared than, say, an Adult Red Shadow Dragon.

I would absolutely give a ten-thousand-foot tall giant like a hypothetical Ymir or Garrados a strength much, much higher than 30. I don't know if I'd bother to adjust any of the existing monsters like Tiamat, but maybe some of the Demon Lords deserve a boost because they're really quite anemic and underpowered relative to their reputations. (Mainly though they need better strategic options, like more mobility and better spells. It's ridiculous than Orcus can grant a warlock the power to transform himself into a dragon, but Orcus cannot himself transform into a dragon. Why gimp Orcus more than his servants? What gives?)

[stoutstien]

If he's a Paladorc, he could also cast Elemental Weapon VII before using Sacred Weapon to get +29 to-hit, total. And of course he could get advantage from Foresight/Greater Invisibility/whatever. Edit: Rukelnikov's idea would make it +39.



Yeah, PCs already break the 20 cap under some circumstances (Barb 20, Manuals of stat-boosting) so there absolutely is precedent for treating these statements as descriptive, not prescriptive.

That is my view as well. Not that I'd allow it to happen but in the spirit of white room rambling I thought it was worth a mention.

Why people are playing around with this, what is the highest minimum roll with everything applied.

[Rukelnikov]

If he's a Paladorc, he could also cast Elemental Weapon VII before using Sacred Weapon to get +29 to-hit, total. And of course he could get advantage from Foresight/Greater Invisibility/whatever. Edit: Rukelnikov's idea would make it +39.

I'm currently around +90 (with outside help, but only published material, no UA or WGE), trying to see if I can get to +100 before posting :P


Yeah, PCs already break the 20 cap under some circumstances (Barb 20, Manuals of stat-boosting) so there absolutely is precedent for treating these statements as descriptive, not prescriptive.

It is a hard cap RAW and RAI, but you are free to remove the cap if you want.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/973785107785011200


Meh. The Tarrasque isn't even supposed to be the toughest monster. By AD&D lore, it's just "the most dreaded monster native to the Prime Material plane," and that's mostly because it's nigh-unkillable and has an unlimited-range fear aura, so armies cannot kill it. The 5E Tarrasque is much weaker and doesn't even deserve to be more feared than, say, an Adult Red Shadow Dragon.

The tarrasque has never been the most powerful monster in the MM, however it has always been the physical powerhouse, the one with the most brute strenght and sheer "stats". Casters (like most great wyrms) have always been a more fearsome foe.

[nickl_2000]

Is there a way you could fit in the Fiendlock Dark One's Own Luck with the other high numbers (1d10 to your ability check roll)?

[ThePolarBear]

Yeah, PCs already break the 20 cap under some circumstances (Barb 20, Manuals of stat-boosting) so there absolutely is precedent for treating these statements as descriptive, not prescriptive.

I would say that a specific exception overrides the general. It is prescriptive, just about as much as everything else.

[MaxWilson]

I would say that a specific exception overrides the general. It is prescriptive, just about as much as everything else.

That's a distinction without a difference. If you're ruling that Manuals of stat boost override the 20 cap because they are "more specific", they would also overrule the 30 cap because they are more specific. Ditto for monster stats exceeding the 30 cap.

[Rukelnikov]

Welp... I couldn't do it... I capped at +99, there is surely a +1 SOMEWHERE that im not seeing, anyway here's what I got:

I assumed limitless resources, so every stat is considered a 30(+10), I did not use any "craftable" item, like artifacts where you have to roll for stuff, dunno if any of those would have helped. I also didn't use boons, cause Boon of Peerless Aim (+20 to one attack) would have made it too easy.

Aside form the limitless resources I think this is AL legal (which was more or less my goal, I didn't constraint myself to PHB +1 though but I think I only use PHB + XGE)

Hobgoblin
Devotion3/War6/Battlemaster10/DivineSoul1

Attuned Items:
Ioun Stone of Mastery
Banner of Krig (Already transfered to the ground)

Ranged attack:

+10 Dex
+7 Prof
+3 Magic Bow
+3 Magic Arrow
+2 Archery Style

= +25 "base"

+10 Cha (Sacred Weapon)
+4 Bless (we are assuming theoretical maximums here, so I consider maximum for every die)
+1 Banner of Krig

= +40

+10 Guided Strike
+10 Precision Strike
+10 War God's Blessing (from a fellow War cleric)
+12 Bardic Inspiration
+4 Bend Luck

= +86

Now, assuming we miss (I think this can miss under certain circumstances, i'll try to do that another day)

+8 Favored by the Gods
+5 Saving Face

= +99 (1 point away... I can't believe it...)

As for skills I couldn't get anywhere as close, what I got was:

Lorebard14/Fiend6

Attuned Items:
Ioun Stone of Mastery
Stone of Good Luck

Stealth check:

+14 Prof
+10 Dex
+10 PWT
+12 Peerless Skill
+12 Bardic Inspiration (from a fellow bard)
+10 Dark One's Own Luck
+4 Ceremony
+4 Guidance
+5 Hearth of Moonlight and Shadow (Dreams Druid 6th)
+4 Bend Luck
+1 Stone of Good Luck

= +86

This is so far that even with the Boon of Undetectability I wouldn't reach 100 :(

Anyways, Im pretty sure the ability check can be improved, and I hope the attack can be improved cause I really dislike being 1 point short.

I also glossed over initiative cause of the many "add X stat to ini" but ended up arouns the same as stealth, didn't really try that one though, so there may be something there.

[PhantomSoul]

Now, assuming we miss (I think this can miss under certain circumstances, i'll try to do that another day)


That's the attack roll and we're being silly about the combination of modifiers and bonuses, so this one's easy -- Natural 1! You still miss, but your total is even higher!

[Nhorianscum]

Welp... I couldn't do it... I capped at +99, there is surely a +1 SOMEWHERE that im not seeing, anyway here's what I got:

I assumed limitless resources, so every stat is considered a 30(+10), I did not use any "craftable" item, like artifacts where you have to roll for stuff, dunno if any of those would have helped. I also didn't use boons, cause Boon of Peerless Aim (+20 to one attack) would have made it too easy.

Aside form the limitless resources I think this is AL legal (which was more or less my goal, I didn't constraint myself to PHB +1 though but I think I only use PHB + XGE)

Hobgoblin
Devotion3/War6/Battlemaster10/DivineSoul1

Attuned Items:
Ioun Stone of Mastery
Banner of Krig (Already transfered to the ground)

Ranged attack:

+10 Dex
+7 Prof
+3 Magic Bow
+3 Magic Arrow
+2 Archery Style

= +25 "base"

+10 Cha (Sacred Weapon)
+4 Bless (we are assuming theoretical maximums here, so I consider maximum for every die)
+1 Banner of Krig

= +40

+10 Guided Strike
+10 Precision Strike
+10 War God's Blessing (from a fellow War cleric)
+12 Bardic Inspiration
+4 Bend Luck

= +86

Now, assuming we miss (I think this can miss under certain circumstances, i'll try to do that another day)

+8 Favored by the Gods
+5 Saving Face

= +99 (1 point away... I can't believe it...)

As for skills I couldn't get anywhere as close, what I got was:

Lorebard14/Fiend6

Attuned Items:
Ioun Stone of Mastery
Stone of Good Luck

Stealth check:

+14 Prof
+10 Dex
+10 PWT
+12 Peerless Skill
+12 Bardic Inspiration (from a fellow bard)
+10 Dark One's Own Luck
+4 Ceremony
+4 Guidance
+5 Hearth of Moonlight and Shadow (Dreams Druid 6th)
+4 Bend Luck
+1 Stone of Good Luck

= +86

This is so far that even with the Boon of Undetectability I wouldn't reach 100 :(

Anyways, Im pretty sure the ability check can be improved, and I hope the attack can be improved cause I really dislike being 1 point short.

I also glossed over initiative cause of the many "add X stat to ini" but ended up arouns the same as stealth, didn't really try that one though, so there may be something there.

Greater Dragonmark Intuition die (Shadow) adds +6.

[Rukelnikov]

That's the attack roll and we're being silly about the combination of modifiers and bonuses, so this one's easy -- Natural 1! You still miss, but your total is even higher!

Nah, cause on a 1 we will also miss with those bonuses and we wanna hit :D

Actually getting AC above 86 is doable. I'm on the phone now so I won't be as detailed or thorough.

Kensei 3/bladesinger2/swords12/bm3

10 Base
10 Dex
10 Wis (monk1)
10 Int (bladesong)
10 Cha (mask of the black dragon)

2 bracers of defense
2 haste
2 shield of faith
1 warding bond

57 "passive" AC

5 Shield (used previous to our current turn)

We make an unarmed attack and another one with a +3 defender

12 defensive flourish
3 defender
2 agile parry

79 AC for the rest of the turn

8 fancy footwork

87 for the rest of the movement

We provoke an AoO

6 defensive Duelist
12 valor bard inspiration

103 AC

We can get a couple more points from ceremony and the dual weikder feat, but it's enough to prove the other attack could miss

[Rukelnikov]

Greater Dragonmark Intuition die (Shadow) adds +6.

That's for stealth check I assume?

[Nhorianscum]

That's for stealth check I assume?

Yup.

*resumes digging through not-humaniod bodies available for theft*

If anyone has GGtR on hand and feels like skimming the dimir gubs we may find treasure there...

[ThePolarBear]

That's a distinction without a difference.

I would still say that you are assigning restrictions - even if those restrictions have ways to be lifted - and not assigning qualities.

But hey, no harm meant and no harm given :D