Magical Theories

[RatElemental]

I'm planning to play a (nerfed) lore master wizard in the near future, who I've conceptualized as "Carl Sagan but magic instead of space."

As part of this I was hoping to RP explaining actual theories behind how magic works. Planes are easy, I can draw from spelljammer and planescape, and have already cleared it with the DM that any statements I make about the planes and such that are wrong are just flawed theories or in some cases just hypotheses.

I thought it'd be a good idea to get some input from the playground about things I could use for inspiration for how fireballs and hold person and whatnot work.

[Anymage]

One thing that immediately comes to mind for is unification, or rather the problems therof. The most bare-bones fundamentals can be matched for all eight schools (similar to how Newtonian physics mostly works for the common cases we experience), but each school's more abstract theories start to conflict with each other at the highest levels. Evocation and conjuration are relatively straightforwards fields of bringing extraplanar energies to bear at your current location, be they an energy plane conduit to transfer life force or a creature from there to here. (Although even there, the way that conjuration can take something Here and send it There is hard to square with evocation.) Illusion and enchantment, meanwhile, may posit a much more subjective reality that the caster can have outsized influence on.

In other words, since everything isn't known, you're encouraged to have the occasional contradictory theories.

[Capac Amaru]

There aren't actually many spells, there is only one. Casting a spell 'tweaks' the fabric of the weave, calling forth the one universal spell whose outcome is shaped by the casting.

[RatElemental]

Illusion and enchantment, meanwhile, may posit a much more subjective reality that the caster can have outsized influence on.


I really like the idea of there being conflicting schools of thought on how illusion works. One thinking that you really are transposing a fake reality over real reality and the other positing that you're just implanting the sensation of the illusion in the minds of all observers.


There aren't actually many spells, there is only one. Casting a spell 'tweaks' the fabric of the weave, calling forth the one universal spell whose outcome is shaped by the casting.

The grand unified spell! I love it.

As far as conflicting theories goes, I was already planning on doing that. Mostly bringing them up as neat ideas that haven't cleared their burden of proof just yet, but boy are they fun to think about. Like how actual physicists can talk about the different ideas of how time works, or whether or not we're in a multiverse, stuff like that.

[PhantomSoul]

I really like the idea of there being conflicting schools of thought on how illusion works. One thinking that you really are transposing a fake reality over real reality and the other positing that you're just implanting the sensation of the illusion in the minds of all observers.


Enchanters claiming Illusion is just a subset of Enchantment; Illusionists claiming Enchantment is just a subset of Illusions.

[Cicciograna]

Magic is a way to generate an entropy-forbidden process, via manipulation of the Weave that acts as an interface between physical systems, absorbing the natural increase in entropy and locally defusing it, thus enabling the magical effect to manifest. The Weave itself is some kind of omnipresent fluid that permeates reality itself: it is highly reactive to willpower, but needs some kind of catalyst to initiate the manipulation reaction. These catalysts are the spell components, which ease the way a spellcaster channels his wills through the Weave itself to obtain the desired result.

A Fireball is a controlled thermodinamical reaction in which spontaneous combustion of oxygen molecules in the air - which normally requires an ignition of some kind - is instead enhanced via the Weave. Control is exerted by careful manipulation of the oxygen influx to the fireball core: a fireball is essentially a controlled local exothermal that can be unleashed towards its intended target, at which point control is relinquished, allowing it to run its course of a combustion reaction.

Hold Person meddles with the electric pulses that enable movement: the spell hinders the exchange of pulses from the brain of the target to his muscles, keeping them into their state of contraction/relaxation (this is why a held creature doesn't fall). Only stimuli released by the encephalus [or wherever muscular stimuli come from, I don't personally know what part of the brain is responsible for them] are hindered, the reflexive stimuli, like the ones that cause heartbeat or breathing, are left alone.

Teleportation and similar spells are quantum tunneling effects at man-size scale, and again they're possible only thanks to massive violations of the Second Principle of Thermodynamics: all the particles constituting a creature or an object quantum tunnel towards the Astral Plane, and from there are instantly quantum-tunneled back to the Prime Material Plane, or wherever they were.

Illusory effects that deceive the senses are either photon manipulation via local alterations to the metric tensor; or alterations to the electric pulses responsible for senses in phantasms.

[Keravath]

Quantum theory of the Weave

The weave is the source of magical energy that surrounds us but people wonder why spells behave the way they do, why do some require verbal, somatic and material components? Why are some spells stronger that others?

This leads us to the formulation of spell theory

The volume of the weave incorporated into a spell is proportional to the strength of the spell. The larger the volume of the weave, the larger the possible spell effect. However, these spell effects need to be guided and actualized. In addition, just by harnessing some portion of the weave, you aren't guaranteed any specific effect.

Spell Power = integral over the volume of the weave harnessed for the spell.

Spell Effect = < V | W | S >

The effect of a spell is due to the Verbal and Somatic components of the invocation acting on the weave. It is the expectation value of the Verbal and Somatic vectors acting on the weave energy continuum.

M = surface integral over the volume of the weave harnessed by the spell

If the surface integral of the volume of the weave for the specific spell is zero then no material component is required to ground the excess energy of the spell. If it is non-zero then a material component is required to anchor the spell. The value of the surface integral determines the nature of the material component required for a specific effect.

The volume of weave that can be harnessed is an integral function of the radius of the volume. A cantrip uses the smallest volume and is the easiest to harness. Assigning unit values, it immediately becomes clear why higher level spells are more powerful. The reason for the integral increase in the radius of weave volume isn't yet known except perhaps that it represents a minimum quanta of magical energy. Perhaps an energy level limitation if you will with only certain energy levels being accessible.

Proportional sizes (it isn't clear what the minimum indivisible unit of the weave might be)
Cantrip - radius = 1, volume = 1
1st level spell, radius = 2, volume = 8
2nd level spell, radius = 3, volume = 27
3rd level spell, radius = 4, volume = 64
...
9th level spell, radius = 10, volume = 1000

Spells beyond 9th level appear to be unstable and this may be because of the theorized curvature of the weave making it impossible to harness a larger volume of the weave into a single spell effect.

---

Corbyn, cleric of Mystra and evoker wizard, former custodian at the Library of Magic, Temple of Mystra, Waterdeep, Adventurer and co-owner of the Trollskull Inn and Tavern, Waterdeep.

Lecturer on magical theory at the Arcana Academy of Waterdeep, every second Thursday.

[Bjarkmundur]

This is my favourite thread on this forum so far ^^

How about trying to prove that spells require no components at all, and are completely based on willpower.
Your working theory is that the use of components is a culturally enforced placebo that only serves to make the caster believe they work, and therefor become a self fulfilling prophecy. You believe it is done to keep spellcasting out of reach for the poor and undisciplined, meaning only those who can afford components and tutelage can become spellcasters. You've reached the conclusion that this common belief is important, and also that it is limiting the progress of spellcasting as a science. If people would find out everyone could be a spellcaster the world would be thrown into chaos. The economy would partly collapse and the number of magical accident and crimes would skyrocket. But it could also mean that the world could solve most of its problems with magic, and the sheer number of mages would be the art would progress exponentially faster than its current rate.
The mage collages are some of the riches establishments in the world, due to the price they put on magic teachings. If you are right, you could make magic free for everyone.

Now, you just have to prove your theory, and decide whether the risk is worth the potential benefits.

You are constantly trying to cast magic spontaneously, and it has a pretty bad success rate. You know in your heart that you are right, but are worried that you cannot unlearn your "made up need for phrases, gestures and meaningless magic junk"

[Shabbazar]

Cool thread. Cool character concept.

If I were a wizard in game with you it would be fun to debate this. The other characters might get bored. Ha.

Personally, I'm more of a mana than Vancian magic guy myself. That's gonna be kind of hard to overlay on the D&D mechanics though. I won't go into it though. There's plenty of info on mana systems around.

I'm primarily playing a Lore Wizard myself right now. Un-nerfed.

[RatElemental]

This is my favourite thread on this forum so far ^^

How about trying to prove that spells require no components at all, and are completely based on willpower.
Your working theory is that the use of components is a culturally enforced placebo that only serves to make the caster believe they work, and therefor become a self fulfilling prophecy. You believe it is done to keep spellcasting out of reach for the poor and undisciplined, meaning only those who can afford components and tutelage can become spellcasters. You've reached the conclusion that this common belief is important, and also that it is limiting the progress of spellcasting as a science. If people would find out everyone could be a spellcaster the world would be thrown into chaos. The economy would partly collapse and the number of magical accident and crimes would skyrocket. But it could also mean that the world could solve most of its problems with magic, and the sheer number of mages would be the art would progress exponentially faster than its current rate.
The mage collages are some of the riches establishments in the world, due to the price they put on magic teachings. If you are right, you could make magic free for everyone.

Now, you just have to prove your theory, and decide whether the risk is worth the potential benefits.

You are constantly trying to cast magic spontaneously, and it has a pretty bad success rate. You know in your heart that you are right, but are worried that you cannot unlearn your "made up need for phrases, gestures and meaningless magic junk"

Being an advocate for education is going to be a central part of the character...

However, in the setting, humans are rarely wizards, just sorcerers and warlocks and stuff like that. This is because humans live a bit shorter than they do by RAW and culturally they often don't see the point in paying for private tutelage to master a thing like magic during their most profitable working years. Establishing a magic college in human lands in the first place will likely be one of the character's major goals.

[Shabbazar]

Being an advocate for education is going to be a central part of the character...

Establishing a magic college in human lands in the first place will likely be one of the character's major goals.

Will you offer them exploitative student loans? (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

[Capac Amaru]

Wizardry by correspondence! 9 easy payments! Accredited diploma!

[Tetrasodium]

I'm planning to play a (nerfed) lore master wizard in the near future, who I've conceptualized as "Carl Sagan but magic instead of space."

As part of this I was hoping to RP explaining actual theories behind how magic works. Planes are easy, I can draw from spelljammer and planescape, and have already cleared it with the DM that any statements I make about the planes and such that are wrong are just flawed theories or in some cases just hypotheses.

I thought it'd be a good idea to get some input from the playground about things I could use for inspiration for how fireballs and hold person and whatnot work.

I put together this (http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21150) a while back, pretty much it takes our own history of discovery through algebra & geometry (bet you didn't know what the insanity of trying to understand non-euclidean geometry lovecraft was writing about until that post) all the way to general relativity, special relativity, quantum theory, & the like converting it to a theory of how magic works for the setting that treats magic as a science.

There are also the six schools of thought under wizard in morgraves misc
Wizards approach magic as a form of science, and from that perspective are likely to contemplate the underlying principles of magic more than any other spellcaster. A gesture, an incantation, and a particular form of thought produce a magical result, but how does this happen, and what makes magic? Do the energies involved come from the planes or from Eberron itself? What is the difference between arcane and divine magic—or is there a difference at all?

Arcane scholars have debated these questions throughout history. Every wizard has a theory and might be very well prepared to debate the question at great length with anyone who considers themselves a scholar of the arcane. Consider the popular theorize circulated around Eberron which are provided on the table below. Most wizards decide early in their curriculums which theories support their philosophy of magic or come up with their unique rationalizations.
The schools of thought themselves are Consensualist, Dominion Theory, Externalist, Prophetic Principles, Siberyan Theory, & Sympathist each with their own spin on things. Just like us, eberron has yet to piece together a magical version of the grand theory of everything (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything)(ToE). Interestingly though, eberron is often said to be at a similar level of (magical) technological development to us late 1800's early 1900's & a lot of the really wild disruptive stuff happened with us around that same time period after ww1 when einstein & a bunch of others got together to argue/prove that their version of the ToE was best or how to reconcile the different models. Coincidentally, eberron just finished it's ww1 ;D

pre-apocalypse athas (darksun) may have been further along, settings like ravenloft are too wound up in their own darkness, FR Greyhawk practically treat magic like a cargo cult treats advanced gifts from the gods (figuratively & to some degree literally).


Hope that helps :D

[Mr_Fixler]

I played a wizard professor who was let go from university due to his obsession with the "unified transmutation theory". All schools of magic were actually transmutation i.e. changing one thing into another.

Evocation+Abjuration - changing matter/energy into another type
Necromancy - life to death and visa versa
Illusion - changes in light, sound, shadow, etc.
Divination - modifying distance, time, senses
Enchantment - changing thoughts, perceptions, thought processes
Conjugation - changing location of existing matter

Not saying holds up to major scrutiny, but a fun theory.

[Aett_Thorn]

What about corresponding the various schools of magic to the various elementary particles?

The 12 elementary particles of matter are six quarks (up, charm, top, Down, Strange, Bottom) 3 electrons (electron, muon, tau) and three neutrinos (e, muon, tau).

Evocation could deal with a type of electron, since it generates energy.

Illusion could be the Strange quark.

Enchantment could be the Charm quark (obviously).

Just have physics be different in this universe in that these particles don’t come together to form matter, but the weave itself, and matter is just a manifestation of the particle weave.

[Cicciograna]

What about corresponding the various schools of magic to the various elementary particles?

The 12 elementary particles of matter are six quarks (up, charm, top, Down, Strange, Bottom) 3 electrons (electron, muon, tau) and three neutrinos (e, muon, tau).

Evocation could deal with a type of electron, since it generates energy.

Illusion could be the Strange quark.

Enchantment could be the Charm quark (obviously).

Just have physics be different in this universe in that these particles don’t come together to form matter, but the weave itself, and matter is just a manifestation of the particle weave.

What did the poor bosons do to you? :smallbiggrin: