Structuring the Grand Plan: How to DM a long game

[blackjack50]

So how do you guys like to build your own campaign? Specifically in regards to making players feel a part of the longer game?

What I was told was to find out WHAT the larger story is first. Is it a nation going to war? Is it stopping a dragon? Whatever it is...figure that out. And then figure out what leads to that event. If it is a war? Why? Over what? Why does one nation feel they are able to attack the other? Are your players in the attacked nation? Or the attacking nation? Does anyone follow that pattern? Or take a different route?

[Zhorn]

So how do you guys like to build your own campaign? Specifically in regards to making players feel a part of the longer game?

What I was told was to find out WHAT the larger story is first.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H7TqEBuKyw
Have an idea of where you want the story to go, but also have some ideas of where else the story could go instead.
You don't need to have exact specifics planned out (if anything, being too specific will backfire on you more often than not).
As your planers interact with your world, move things behind the scenes, adjust your plan accordingly. Introduce elements that intersect with your players actions, or adjust the actions of your big plot to build on the actions your players have made. Have repeat encounters with themes that worked out in the past; goblins lead to hobgoblin armies, kobolds lead to dragons, cultists lead to dracolichs, etc. Random encounters can slowly unravel into primary plot threads and eventually into THE plot. When your players look back on it, they think that was the game plan the whole time. Mix it up early with a variety of things, if plots lose momentum or hit dead ends, change gears, swap focus.
Learn to let go.

[MrStabby]

Firstly have a growing threat.

Country x has a big army and wants to invade country Y... means that you face equally tough enemies at the start of the campaign as at the end. Sure you can contrive something as the DM, but then it really does feel contrived. You might fight only "scouts" but then why do they attack you or how do you become so good at tracking down professional soldiers specialising in this craft?

On the other hand, the waking on an ancient evil with corresponding escalation in impact on the world more naturally follows the course.

One reason why I like this structure is it let's you expand or contract the campaign and elements in it according to the fun people are having. You can extend your level 1 to 10 campaign up to level 14 with a few more side quests etc. When the upper limit to your enemies power is not pre-declared.

I also advise that side quests are awesome or long campaigns. Personal connections, fun characters, quests for loot or for more background info... it helps keep the main plot clear if some of the clutter is off to the side.

Also go over the top on connections. Players will miss the connection with something that happened three years previously with a pretty high probability. Give them 50 or so connections and hints and they should at least get some then get to feel awesome for the clues they picked up. Keep notes. Brows old notes for inspiration. Sometimes a slightly implausible level of connectivity that ties everything together can aid the fun.

Take notes of your descriptions, ensure consistency. Embed epic tales as part of your living world. Come back with references to the same. When players visit the awesome temple of the jade obelisk it is awesome because it has appeared in a few of the legends of the world.

Plots should work on multi levels. I.e. they should both be able to be self contained with their own rewards but at the same time be part of a larger piece. I.e. you fight the bandits and make the road safe, but why did they take up banditry? You find the curse of the god of greed that manifest, but why are the curses of old, dead gods coming back now? You must settle the war between the old gods and the new as mighty heroes... and so on.

[willdaBEAST]

Some good advice here and a great question.

In terms of personal experience I ran a homebrew campaign for nearly a year and one of the issues I had was the group didn’t embrace the sandbox approach I intended. I wanted to offer control and agency to the party, instead they meandered to the point that it was a real challenge to further any overarching plot.

I could have done a better job of presenting consequences for inaction, but I didn’t want to be overly punitive. Unfortunately that led to DM burnout on my end.

I agree that flexibility is key, don’t lock the party on rails, it puts a lot of prep strain on you as a DM and diminishes the players’ impact. You can steer them towards plot beats, but reading and reacting to their decisions within the context of a greater threat is the way to go imo. Establishing some kind of timeline will help keep things focused, but honestly dealing with failure or disaster can create some wonderful scenarios.

[blackjack50]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H7TqEBuKyw
Have an idea of where you want the story to go, but also have some ideas of where else the story could go instead.
You don't need to have exact specifics planned out (if anything, being too specific will backfire on you more often than not).
As your planers interact with your world, move things behind the scenes, adjust your plan accordingly. Introduce elements that intersect with your players actions, or adjust the actions of your big plot to build on the actions your players have made. Have repeat encounters with themes that worked out in the past; goblins lead to hobgoblin armies, kobolds lead to dragons, cultists lead to dracolichs, etc. Random encounters can slowly unravel into primary plot threads and eventually into THE plot. When your players look back on it, they think that was the game plan the whole time. Mix it up early with a variety of things, if plots lose momentum or hit dead ends, change gears, swap focus.
Learn to let go.

Hehe good quote.

And yea. I think it is easy to have an idea of what is happening in the world so that you can deliver backstory to characters. I did one that ended up ending due to outside circumstances. I had a small island nation looking for independence. That gave me the freedom to have multiple groups (“pirates” who tried to escape taxes, military/watch types, farmers, townsfolk types, and all your normal wild lands bad guys) interact. Turned out my players were obsessed with animals and I introduced a thunderbird and a BBEG that was trying to capture it and use its power for military purposes. :)

[SirGraystone]

I would try to make not really a grand plan more like the outline of a plan, and divide it in tiers or chapters. Let's say the main villain is Orcus, who want to open a portal and invade with his legions of undeads and demons, that's the main goal. But I don't worry about more then that to start. I'll focus on tiers 1, a necromancer that the group will fight around level 4 or 5.

From this necromancer will come most of the challenger from the 1st tier, bandits on the road? They were hired by a mysterious man in black robe. A ruins to explore? Already explored before by the necromancer to recover an item to open the portal and he left some undead behind for the PCs to fight. Players will often forget the larger picture, but a recuring local villain is something they can hunt down.

By the time you get to the 2nd tiers of the campaign you have more background stuff created, npcs, locations, that you can use, the necromancer surrender and is taken alive? He may escape later. He's killed by the players? Orcus rules over the undead, the necromancer may come back as a wraith or other kind of undead.
Or in tiers 3 as a death knight.

[EggKookoo]

I've found that rather than trying to make the world large through plot, make it large through personality. You want to stick the players into a world filled with lots of unique, individual NPCs. Avoid the cliches, or turn them upside down. I try never, for example, to have "three guards" standing by an entrance. Instead it's Sarra, Keld, and Boff. Sarra's bright and she hates guard duty, but she secretly loves Boff and sticks near him even if he's oblivious. Keld is corrupt and lazy but a skilled fighter. Boff is a bit of a dunce but Keld makes him laugh. Having these little bits of attitude and outlook gives me hooks in how to present the way they talk and react to each other, which in turn makes them feel like real people to the players. And it's not very hard to whip up little things like this on the fly.

The thing to remember is that your large epic narrative really only comes into view as it happens. The players don't see it coming. This isn't to say you can't foreshadow, but in all likelihood your players won't notice that so much. What makes the game feel large are the memories generated from playing it. Just make sure they're good ones.

[Laserlight]

In my experience, you need to give the players a clear goal. Just saying "here's a map, wander around and have fun" sounds good but in practice the players a) are sometimes paralyzed by indecision and end up spending three sessions RPing "getting drunk in a tavern because we don't know where to go" and b) don't have a sense of accomplishment and closure without a goal.

You probably want to have layers of "what's going on". Top level might be "Kingdom A is invading the city states to the south", then mid level is "City State B is taking advantage of A's attack to annex City State C", and low level is "Two factions in C are brawling in the streets trying to get control". The adventurers can't affect the top tier for a while but they can get drawn into the factions skirmishing in the street in C. As time goes on, events at each level will proceed; perhaps the city states invite Kingdom D to move in to counter A, for example. You can take examples from real history pretty easily -- the one I just gave is the Great Italian Wars around AD1495-1525.

Of course, this kind of assumes the players have some loyalty to City State C, which isn't always the case. For one campaign a couple of years ago, I had a city lovingly detailed as the PC's home base, and they got themselves exiled around the third session. :-/ Don't put too much work into your plans, because the PCs will (sometimes deliberately, usually not) throw your plans out the window, brick in the window, plaster over the brick, and change the architectural drawings to show that it was always a solid wall there.

[jjordan]

There are as many answers to this question as there are DMs. And those answers are constantly evolving based on experience. In general?

Build a basic world.
Find out what kind of game everyone wants to play.
Get backstory summaries.
Incorporate the backstories and and game preferences into your world design.
Add additional population groups and give them motives.
Decide how, in general, those groups will pursue their motives and how those might play out.
Throw the players into the mix and let them influence the world.

You don't have to have a single, larger, story. Whichever story the players decide to participate in will be the big story and big, unconnected stuff can still happen around them. E.G. While your guys were busy preventing the return of the Duchess of Death and her army of tortured souls the Golden Kingdom conquered twelve neighboring states and enslaved their populations while the Red Comet laid waste to a vast swathe of the world and left it populated by alien creatures.

[Foff]

I've been running Curse of Strahd for over a year now, same campaign, same group. These guys gathered information about a certain crazed mage who was rumored to be dwelling in the northern part of the region and initially were set upon looking him up. Story took a few quick turns from there and only today, after more than a year of playing, they finally managed to meet this mage and the encounter was absolutely ridiculously EPIC. I've been dying to introduce this character because I really loved it and I've had to hold it off until today but it was totally worth it.

TLDR, don't force the narration, things will eventually fall into place :D