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Trandir
2019-10-04, 01:28 PM
So I joined a new campaign and so a new PC has to be made.

The houserules:
All feats that provided a an ability score increase no longer provide them (with the only exeption being HAM);
Some feats also got some rework ex: PAM allow a monk to do both extra attacks from the feat and the class feature (THIS WORKS ONLY SPECIFICALLY WITH UNARMED ATTACKS MADE AS BONUS ACTIONS ALL OTHER CLASS FEATURES AND FEATS THAT USE THE BONUS ACTION NOT TO MAKE UNARMED ATTACKS STILL CONSUME THE BONUS ACTION);
You get feats for "free", one at lv 1 and one more at lv 5, 9, 13, 17, 20;
The ASI is 1 ability score and happens once at every even level (the figher with the 6th and 14th level score increase gets 3 points or a feat and 1 point);
A PC can't get 18 or above in any ability before lv 4 and can't get to 20 before lv 10;
Some classes got changes (ex: if a circle if the moon druid is forced out of a wild shape it is also incapacitated for 1 round, a barbarian recover 2 levels of exaustion each long rest if they come from frenzy);
The DM is willing to homebrew to accomodate roleplay at the cost of a feat, like 1/rest use of wildshape, or you can craft your spell (it still need to be approved by the DM first).


My guts tells me that a human fighter (how original) could be quite good.


Here are other notable changes:

MUNDANE EQUIPMENT (the most notable):

Composite bow: 1d8 150/600 you can add your Str mod to the damage (max 2). If someone with less than 10 Str uses this weapon they get disadvantage on the attack

Throwing knife: 1d2 40/80 the knife is destroyed after it is used as a throwing weapon. If you use this weapon in melee you get disadvantage to the attack roll. I you use the action to attack and have two weapon fighting and a free hand you can throw two knifes as part of the same attack. If you have 14 Dex drawing a knife does not require an action.

Catching padded armor: light armor 11 AC +Dex. Reduce by 3 the damage from small projectiles such as arrows daggers darts ecc.

Chain mantle: medium armor 13 AC +Dex max 2. This mantle can be used as armor but it is kept in position by a single leather strip, as an object interaction you can remove this armor.

Multi plated armor: heavy armor 17 AC. The multiple plates sacrifice some of the durability of the plated armor but you are able to move easly. No disadvantage on stealth.

Buckler: +1 AC. This shield leaves the hand free. If that hand is used you do not gain the benefit from the shield but it can held object with no penalities.

Tower shield wood/metal: +3/4 AC. As an action you can put the shield on the ground and consider it as a 5×10 feet wall in one side of your square (you get full cover but a spellcaster can still target the shield. The shield is so massive and so heavy that you take a -2/3 penality on attack rolls while you are using it. You can use a tower shield only if you are proficient in both shields and heavy armor.

Spikes: a metal armor can have metal spikes on it. If you are in a grapple or you receive an unarmet attack you deal 1 P damage to the opponent. Your unarmed strikes deal 1 P extra damage, if the armor has gauntlets the damage is increased by 2 instead.

Reinforcements: applicable only to clothes, robes or light armor, this leather reinforced adds make the armor heavier so it is considered as a medium armor and requires the corresponding proficiency (you still get the full Dex bonus). If you have no weapon, focus or shield you get +1 to the AC and +1 to unarmed attack and damage rolls

FEATS:
Keen Mind, provides an extra prepared spell;
Heavy Armor Master, keeps the +1 to Str;
Sharpshooter, the malus to hit is decided by you and can be up to your level to a maximum of +5 at lv 5 and you deal twice the malus as bonus damage;
Expertise (is now also a feat), choose a skill that you are proficient in you double your proficiency bonus for that skill's checks;
War Caster, the feat doesn't provide advantage on Con saves to maintain a spell if another spellcaster used magic to trigger the ST;
Observant, you get a +2 on active perception and investigation skill checks (the passive bonus is still +5);
Tough, the hp bonus is halved (+1 per level instead of +2);
Lot of feats have stat requirements or higher ones (most notably magic initiate requires 13 in that class spellcasting ability).


CLASS FEATURES:

Barbarian:
At lv 1 you get two weapon fighting for free;
Berserk sublass is buffed, frenzy exaustion are recovered 2 at a time allowing it to be used twice every adventuring day with little to no consequences, intimidating presence DC can depend (player's choice) on Cha or Str but if the opponent has higher Str than the barbarian he gets advantage on the save.

Cleric:
Arcane domain (totally different from knowledge):
Domain spells:
lv 1 detect magic, magic missile
lv 3 magic weapon, Nystul's magic aura
lv 5 counterspell, magic circle
lv 7 arcane eye, Leomund's secret chest
lv 9 planar binding, teleportation circle

lv 1 you get 2 wizard cantrips of choice and are considered as cleric spells.
lv 2 you can use turn undead also against fey, demons, celestial elementals as by the rules against undead. At lv 5 on a failed save the creature is exiled for 1 minute instead.
lv 6 spell breaker: when you use an healing spell on an ally you can end one spell effect on him (only spells of level equal or lower than the spell slot used to cast the heal can be dispelled this way).
lv 8 cantrip get Wis to damage
lv 17 you can add one wizard spell of each lv 6 7 8 9 and add them to you domain spells, they are now cleric spells.

Druid:
Circle of the moon
If your wild shape is broken you are incapacitated for 1 round.
At lv 14 you can turn into creatures of 1/3 of your cleric level

Rogue:
You get two weapon fighting as combact style.


Wizard:
Signature spells buff: the chosen spells can be used up to a number of times equal to Int mod without spending spell slots instead of twice (once per spell).

Enchantment:
Hipnotic gaze buff: the condition is interrupted if the creature is more than 30 feet away from the wizard.


Evocation:
new feature Imbued evocation: fron 3rd level your evocation spells are considered as 1 lever higher when you cast them. It the spell gains no benefit from this and deals damage it deals 1d8 bonus force damage.
Potent cantrip buff: if you use a cantrip that requires an attack roll you have advantage on that roll

Necromancy:
Undeat thrall buff: spells that raise dead or create undead now target one more creature or create one more undead. The undead created by the wizard add his proficiency mod to all damage rolls not only those from weapons.

NecessaryWeevil
2019-10-04, 01:54 PM
You can't optimize until you decide what you're optimizing FOR. What are your goals?

Trandir
2019-10-04, 02:00 PM
You can't optimize until you decide what you're optimizing FOR. What are your goals?

In general.
These houserules (i think) open some choices otherwise impossible to get.

I also can't decide for a class so probably I should ask advice on what to play before optimizing. Thanks

nickl_2000
2019-10-04, 02:04 PM
Frankly with the Polearm Mastery (usually PAM not PM) you mentioned just go Wood Elf Monk with PAM as the level 1 feat. Wield a spear or staff and go completely nuts (you will have 3 attacks at level 1!). After that, you really are pretty much all set.

If you don't want PAM, take Dual Wielder at level 1.

Look at feats that don't have a +1 to a stat since it will be more powerful
! Mobile
Charger and see if you can action dash, bonus action charger attack, bonus action PAM attack, and bonus action monk attack
! Dual Wielder and PAM and dual wield two staffs and see if you can get 3 bonus action attacks at level 4.
Lucky
Mage Slayer
Magic Initiate
! Tavern Brawler to attack, bonus action PAM, bonus action monk unarmed strike, then bonus action grapple and drag them completely away from combat with monk speed


One more even though it's a +1 stat, Elven Accuracy. After all if you are consistently getting 5-6 attacks per round you may as well do them all at triple advantage.

Trandir
2019-10-04, 02:39 PM
Frankly with the Polearm Mastery (usually PAM not PM) you mentioned just go Wood Elf Monk with PAM as the level 1 feat. Wield a spear or staff and go completely nuts (you will have 3 attacks at level 1!). After that, you really are pretty much all set.

If you don't want PAM, take Dual Wielder at level 1.

My bad edited the correct acronym

Good suggestion



Look at feats that don't have a +1 to a stat since it will be more powerful
! Mobile
Charger and see if you can action dash, bonus action charger attack, bonus action PAM attack, and bonus action monk attack
! Dual Wielder and PAM and dual wield two staffs and see if you can get 3 bonus action attacks at level 4.

Tavern Brawler to attack, bonus action PAM, bonus action monk unarmed strike, then bonus action grapple and drag them completely away from combat with monk speed



You get one free bonus action only for PAM not one per source.



Lucky
Mage Slayer
Magic Initiate

Intresting thing lucky got nefed: the uses are seduced to one per long rest at lv 1-4 and a second one at lv 5 and higher.




One more even though it's a +1 stat, Elven Accuracy. After all if you are consistently getting 5-6 attacks per round you may as well do them all at triple advantage.

True that is one good feat. How do you get easy acces to advantage as a monk?

nickl_2000
2019-10-04, 02:44 PM
You get one free bonus action only for PAM not one per source.

True that is one good feat. How do you get easy acces to advantage as a monk?

I find it interesting that the feat that was made more powerful is one that is already considered one of the more powerful feats in the game. That being said, then level 1 PAM Wood Elf still is the way to go. 3 attacks at level 1 is all kinds of broken, and will end up with your dropping many baddies before they have a chance to even think about attacking. Mobile is always good for a monk, alert would be pretty useful to be able to drop the pain before others react.



Shoving someone prone is your best bet yourself. Realistically, your best bet is going to be getting help from someone else. Faerie Fire or one of the many other choices.

Wildarm
2019-10-04, 03:03 PM
So I joined a new campaign and so a new PC has to be made.

The houserules:
All feats that provided a an ability score increase no longer provide them;
Some feats also got some rework (ex: PAM allow a monk to do both extra attacks from the feat and the class feature);
You get feats for free, one at lv 1 and one with each regular ASI (so this is a buff to all feats and a slight debuff to variant human);
Some classes got changes (ex: if a druid is forced out of a wild shape it is also incapacotated for 1 round, a barbarian recover 2 levels of exaustion each long rest if they come from frenzy);
The DM is willing to homebrew to accomodate roleplay at the cost of a feat, like 1/rest use of wildshape, or you can craft your spell (it still need to be approved by the DM first).


My guts tells me that a human fighter (how original) could be quite good.


If anyone has questions about a particular feat/class feature I will get them ASAP but they are quite a lot so I can't put all of them here

With a free feat with each ASI and starting feat you can do some funky things. Spell Sniper, Warcaster, PAM in particular could be pretty fun.

Eldritch Knight - Whatever race you want that gives at least +1 Str to start with 16
Level 1 - PAM
Level 4 - Warcaster
Level 6 - Spell Sniper

Booming blade as a reaction when a foe enters your 10' reach. If you can convince your DM to give you Tunnel Fighter(UA) then you'll be a wall of thunderous death.

Contrast
2019-10-04, 03:08 PM
Without actually knowing all the changes its difficult to offer much informed advice.

If you're looking to make the most of the rules you may want something MAD but that also wants feats.

That said I might be inclined to play barbarian (GWM and PAM without delaying stats? wonderful). Halfling bard with Bountiful Luck, Inspiring Leader, Res Con and Warcaster by 12 all while maxing out stats also sounds fun to me.

Trandir
2019-10-04, 03:12 PM
I find it interesting that the feat that was made more powerful is one that is already considered one of the more powerful feats in the game. That being said, then level 1 PAM Wood Elf still is the way to go. 3 attacks at level 1 is all kinds of broken, and will end up with your dropping many baddies before they have a chance to even think about attacking. Mobile is always good for a monk, alert would be pretty useful to be able to drop the pain before others react.



Shoving someone prone is your best bet yourself. Realistically, your best bet is going to be getting help from someone else. Faerie Fire or one of the many other choices.

Thanks.


Without actually knowing all the changes its difficult to offer much informed advice.

That said I might be inclined to play barbarian (GWM and PAM without delaying stats? wonderful).


I know but it's quite long to list everything

Delaying stats? I could do that at lv 1 with variant human.

Some other buffed/nerfed feats if you are intrested:
Keen Mind, provides an extra prepared spell;
Heavy Armor Master, keeps the +1 to Str;
Sharpshooter, the malus to hit is decided by you and can be up to your level to a maximum of +5 at lv 5 and you deal twice the malus as bonus damage;
Expertise (is now also a feat), choose a skill that you are proficient in you double your proficiency bonus for that skill's checks;
War Caster, the feat doesn't provide advantage on Con saves to maintain a spell if another spellcaster used magic to trigger the ST;
Observant, you get a +2 on active perception and investigation skill checks (the passive bonus is still +5);
Tough, the hp bonus is halved (+1 per level instead of +2);
Lot of feats have stat requirements or higher ones (most notably magic initiate requires 13 in that class spellcasting ability).

th3g0dc0mp13x
2019-10-04, 11:16 PM
With those in play, I would play a Frenzy Barbarian.

At Level 1 Grab PAM and have 2 attacks per turn.

At Level 3 Get Frenzy Barb and have 3 per turn.

At level 4 grab GWM.

At level 5 You'll be doing 4 attacks per turn that are all doing all kinds of damage and the normal issue with exhaustion is less of an issue then normal.

Trandir
2019-10-05, 03:40 AM
With those in play, I would play a Frenzy Barbarian.

At Level 1 Grab PAM and have 2 attacks per turn.

At Level 3 Get Frenzy Barb and have 3 per turn.

At level 4 grab GWM.

At level 5 You'll be doing 4 attacks per turn that are all doing all kinds of damage and the normal issue with exhaustion is less of an issue then normal.

The monk got a buff in the form of a sinergy with PAM. Frenzy doesn't work with PAM. I am considering a Barbarian with a dip in monk, this way you get the 3 attacks at lv 2 (and 4 at lv 5).

th3g0dc0mp13x
2019-10-05, 04:59 AM
Whoops missed that part. With that being the case I would absolutely go with a PAM monk. Once you've done that though you have a bunch of different options for increasing your damage output, some with a loss on short fights though.

Fighter

Get the duelist fighting style, If you're hitting with 1 hand on your PAM weapon then this increases your damage by +2, post monk 11 this is a flat dpr increase.
Action Surge (are there any special rules on this)
Subclass notable are the, battlemaster for maneuvers which also recover on a short rest, And eldritch knight for shield/absorb elements.


Barbarian (Strength monks only, dex based need not apply)

Rage, Damage boost and survivability boost requires a bonus action which in your case means you lose 3? attacks (if i'm reading that right)
Danger sense and reckless attack, once again a boost to your DPR and survival though this doesn't cost you damage like the last one.
Subclass, Notably the Totemic, Zealot, and I like the Ancestral Guardian for a skirmisher (automatic disadvantage against your entire team while your just barely out of reach.


Warlock

Hexblades only, Hex and Hexblades curse Same issue as with the Barbarian's rage only with more potential increase with a little prep time. You can also get Armor of Agathys or shield.
Invocations. Not for damage but very nice for ooc utility. (Devil's sight would maybe be an increase but in this case the Damage lost and the hindrance to allies would be significant.)

Ranger (Hey this one uses wisdom and dex so that's nice.)

Meh, dead level
Same as Fighter 1, plus spells like hunters mark, and absorb elements.
Subclass, Notably Gloomstalker (+Wis to initiative, and a sometimes auto advantage in darkness) Hunter (Giant Killer or Hordebreaker for additional attacks), Monster slayer (slayer's prey, with a single round of prep you can increase damage output by 2d6 per attack against a single target.)


Rogue

Expertise, sneak attack probably won't apply to your weapons.
Cunning Action (no more wasting ki on dashing)
Subclass, I would go Swashbuckler unless you go drunken master monk.

Trandir
2019-10-05, 08:09 AM
Whoops missed that part. With that being the case I would absolutely go with a PAM monk. Once you've done that though you have a bunch of different options for increasing your damage output, some with a loss on short fights though.

Fighter

Get the duelist fighting style, If you're hitting with 1 hand on your PAM weapon then this increases your damage by +2, post monk 11 this is a flat dpr increase.
Action Surge (are there any special rules on this)
Subclass notable are the, battlemaster for maneuvers which also recover on a short rest, And eldritch knight for shield/absorb elements.


Barbarian (Strength monks only, dex based need not apply)

Rage, Damage boost and survivability boost requires a bonus action which in your case means you lose 3? attacks (if i'm reading that right)
Danger sense and reckless attack, once again a boost to your DPR and survival though this doesn't cost you damage like the last one.
Subclass, Notably the Totemic, Zealot, and I like the Ancestral Guardian for a skirmisher (automatic disadvantage against your entire team while your just barely out of reach.


Warlock

Hexblades only, Hex and Hexblades curse Same issue as with the Barbarian's rage only with more potential increase with a little prep time. You can also get Armor of Agathys or shield.
Invocations. Not for damage but very nice for ooc utility. (Devil's sight would maybe be an increase but in this case the Damage lost and the hindrance to allies would be significant.)

Ranger (Hey this one uses wisdom and dex so that's nice.)

Meh, dead level
Same as Fighter 1, plus spells like hunters mark, and absorb elements.
Subclass, Notably Gloomstalker (+Wis to initiative, and a sometimes auto advantage in darkness) Hunter (Giant Killer or Hordebreaker for additional attacks), Monster slayer (slayer's prey, with a single round of prep you can increase damage output by 2d6 per attack against a single target.)


Rogue

Expertise, sneak attack probably won't apply to your weapons.
Cunning Action (no more wasting ki on dashing)
Subclass, I would go Swashbuckler unless you go drunken master monk.


Ok I will put also the most notable class changes. But monk seems pretty good so far

TheTeaMustFlow
2019-10-05, 08:32 AM
Heavy Armor Master, keeps the +1 to Str

Worth noting that this means a character with point buy can start with 18 strength if they go for a race with a +2 in it like half orc. HAM is also just generally very effective at low levels as well, and the opportunity cost for taking it here are much lower than normal.




Sharpshooter, the malus to hit is decided by you and can be up to your level to a maximum of +5 at lv 5 and you deal twice the malus as bonus damage;


Assuming you have at least a vague idea of enemy AC and can do some quick maths, that's a serious buff to the feat.



Expertise (is now also a feat), choose a skill that you are proficient in you double your proficiency bonus for that skill's checks;

Flatly worse than prodigy. A great deal worse, in fact.


Tough, the hp bonus is halved (+1 per level instead of +2);

...What the actual? Seriously, that's the feat they thought needed a nerf?

And yeah, unless you actually give us all the houserules rather than spoonfeeding them it's a bit difficult to give overall advice. Still, based on what you have revealed so far your instinct towards fighter is a good one - if and only if fighter's extra ASIs also grant feats. Otherwise, other martial classes are pretty much straight up better, since they can also afford all the feats that a fighter normally could.

The advice about going for PAM and a level in monk is good. A crossbow expert build would also be quite effective, particularly with the sharpshooter buff (Probably go Ranger, Swords Bard, Hexblade, or some mixture thereof for that one.)

For similar reasons variant human (if still allowed) is not a particularly good racial choice, since its feat has been rather devalued. Better to go for something with more racial features. (Standard human is still just generally mediocre, no change there.)

Trandir
2019-10-05, 08:51 AM
And yeah, unless you actually give us all the houserules rather than spoonfeeding them it's a bit difficult to give overall advice.

I figured that much but there are a looooooot am doing that right now.
It will take a while