Were Yurians misprinted in the Fiend Folio?

[Katie Boundary]

Yurians, as printed in the Fiend folio, have 3 racial hit dice. This appears to be consistent with its saving throws and number of feats so I'm going to assume that it's correct.

The entry also says that they have a level adjustment of +4. If true, this would mean that a Yurian with 1 level in a class would have an ECL of 8.

However, the same entry also states "A yurian PC’s effective character level (ECL) is equal to its class level +4. Thus, a 1st-level yurian barbarian has an ECL of 5 and is the equivalent of a 5th level character." This could only be true if the level adjustment was +1, rather than +4.


Was this ever updated or given errata?

[Buufreak]

It is fairly common knowledge that the writers and editors at wotc are bad at their jobs, especially when it comes to any sense of consistency. Double especially when it comes to information that is literally on the same page.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

They likely overlooked the racial HD when adding the "Yurian as Characters" section, and assumed their ECL would be LA + Class Levels. That book was published right before 3.5 released, at a time when not all the writers were completely familiar with how level adjustment worked. There's clearly a typo somewhere, but even at 3 HD and a +1 LA, it's at the low end of non-zero ECL races.

[javcs]

Y'know, if there was a subset of writers (or editors) who thought that LA was supposed to include RHD, that might explain some of the excessive LAs.
But it wouldn't explain most of the questionable LAs.



Honestly, I'd call a Yurian LA +0, at best. And I expect that when the LA reassignment thread gets to them, I won't be alone.

[ShurikVch]

However, the same entry also states "A yurian PC’s effective character level (ECL) is equal to its class level +4. Thus, a 1st-level yurian barbarian has an ECL of 5 and is the equivalent of a 5th level character." This could only be true if the level adjustment was +1, rather than +4.Isn't it obvious?
Yurian characters are retraining all their racial HD and stay with just LA! :smallbiggrin:

[Clementx]

3.25 books who use the "class level + x" language assume racial hit dice in that calculation. So LA +1, 3 racial HD.

[Silvercrys]

3.25 books who use the "class level + x" language assume racial hit dice in that calculation. So LA +1, 3 racial HD.The example given is that a Yurian with one level of Barbarian is a 5th level character; wouldn't the example say 8th if that was the case?

[Asmotherion]

isn't FF 3.0 material that was never converted to 3.5? if so you can understandably expect some things to not be 100 percent accurate and need DM discration for the convertion.

[Afghanistan]

isn't FF 3.0 material that was never converted to 3.5? if so you can understandably expect some things to not be 100 percent accurate and need DM discration for the convertion.

It was errata'd if that means anything and the change is still not there. I'm fairly confident it is an oversight however and very clearly a misunderstanding created by the transition from 3.0 to 3.5

[ZamielVanWeber]

So in Fiend Folio LA was brand new, it did not exist in 3.0. So some monsters in the FF have an LA that includes their HD and some don't and most of the time you can tell them apart. This does mean that khaasta was fascinating in the sense that it had an LA +0 before the errata exacerbated the odd editing issues of FF.

[javcs]

So in Fiend Folio LA was brand new, it did not exist in 3.0. So some monsters in the FF have an LA that includes their HD and some don't and most of the time you can tell them apart. This does mean that khaasta was fascinating in the sense that it had an LA +0 before the errata exacerbated the odd editing issues of FF.

Khaasta being LA +0 seems like a surprisingly reasonable LA from WotC.
It's not like they get much out of their 3 RHD.

Edit: This apparent reasonableness, of course, means that WotC probably considered it a mistake.

[ZamielVanWeber]

It was a solid +0 for melee builds, considering how devoid of options melee builds were for so long. It has aged poorly in the face of increasingly viable class features but is a cool option if you want to play a lizard folk. The LAs on FF were often viable.

[The Viscount]

The only update for Fiend Folio I've seen updates DR for monsters, Construct crafting requirements, and swarms. Everything else stayed.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I remember seeing an LA update somewhere but I can't find it now, so khaasta gets to keep its +0 LA. Wahoo!

[Katie Boundary]

I knew this reminded me of something. Digging through my old files turned up the Crucians (from Sandstorm), another race of crab-people with a misprint related to racial hit dice. What are the odds?


So in Fiend Folio LA was brand new, it did not exist in 3.0.

Level adjustment in 3.0 existed at least as far back as the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, and was based on the "Level Equivalent" function found in the 3.0 DMG. However, for a little while afterward, there was some confusion about whether racial hit dice were supposed to be counted in the LA or stacked on top of it.

[Thurbane]

I knew this reminded me of something. Digging through my old files turned up the Crucians (from Sandstorm), another race of crab-people with a misprint related to racial hit dice. What are the odds?

Crucians always struck me more as turtle people.

They originally appeared in the Miniatures Handbook (before Sandstorm), didn't have the issue with their RHD omitted from the "Crucians as PCs" section, and also had the reptilian subtype.

The also have the honour of being (AFAIK) the Humanoid with the highest natural AC bonus, making them popular as an Alter Self form.

[Katie Boundary]

They originally appeared in the Miniatures Handbook (before Sandstorm), didn't have the issue with their RHD omitted from the "Crucians as PCs" section

The "crucian characters" section in the Minis Handbook didn't include anything at all about them except their favored class.

[Thurbane]

The "crucian characters" section in the Minis Handbook didn't include anything at all about them except their favored class.

True, perhaps I worded that awkwardly - but the default stat block lists 3RHD and + 2 LA; reading this in the standard manner for playable monsters that lack a detailed "monster as character", that yields 3 RHD and a +2 LA, or ECL 6 at their first class level.

I'm firmly of the belief that the sandstorm section on Crucians as characters simply omited the RHD info that is usually present in such areas. I've noted as such in my LA +1 & LA +2 Player Race List (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=10508319&postcount=2).

[Katie Boundary]

Sandstorm gives Crucians both an NPC stat block and a PC stat block, with the RHD and its goodies included in the NPC block. So it's a little weird to say that Minis "doesn't have an issue" that Sandstorm does with missing information when Sandstorm includes literally all of the information from Minis.

[Thurbane]

Sandstorm gives Crucians both an NPC stat block and a PC stat block, with the RHD and its goodies included in the NPC block. So it's a little weird to say that Minis "doesn't have an issue" that Sandstorm does with missing information when Sandstorm includes literally all of the information from Minis.

Sure thing. :smallwink: