Help with Combat Shenanigans Monk

[Mako-Addiction]

Hi! So I'm playing 5e and I was hoping for some input on my Monk build that I have planned out. Keep in mind I'm allowed PHB, XGE, and Volo's by default, though other stuff is subject to DM approval. Anything in my current build has already been approved.

Concept: High mobility character that flits across the battlefield providing general harassment of foes and support. Damage is a plus, but is ultimately secondary to the other abilities. The main features revolve around the Monks Open Hand abilities (particularly knocking enemies prone) and Combat Maneuvers granted by Fighter.

Race: I was torn between Tabaxi and Bugbear. Bugbear gives a slightly better combination of stats, and the 5ft reach is nice. Tabaxi still gives Dex which is nice, but the main thing is the Feline Agility ability. The extra movement speed seems incredible for a character that's typically going to be hitting multiple creatures once each, then positioning herself. Wood elf was also considered, but didn't seem to compare. I went with Tabaxi for now, partially because I like it better from an RP standpoint, but thoughts would be nice on this.

Stats: rolled 17, 16, 15, 14, 14, 12. These are currently put as Str 16, Dex 16 (14+2), Con 15, Int 12, Wis 17, Cha 15 (14+1). My reasoning for this was that Wis and either Str or Dex are my primary stats, as they are the ones going to be used as the DC for my abilities. The big choice I had to make was whether to have 16 Str and 16 Dex, or 14 Str and 18 Dex. Str is nice because it will ultimately be my main attacking stat later on due to benifitting from features. But Dex would increase my early game damage and AC. So any input on this would be nice as well.

Background: Outlander. Honestly it seemed like it made the most sense for my character being a Bugbear or Tabaxi, and provides some nifty features.

Classes: Barbarian 3, Fighter 3, Monk rest
Here's the fun part. So I have for sure decided to take Monk 3 first for multiple reasons. 1) The character is meant to be a fancy monk so it made RP sense to level it first. 2) Open Fist is one of the core features this build focuses on. 3) Wanted to take before Barbarian because it's Unarmored Defense is better for my character. I already have to have Wis for my DCs, so doing it this way means I can have slightly less focus on Con. I wanted to take Monk before Fighter mostly because I'm taking Dueling as fighter and it seemed kinda janky to do that first.

Level 4 - First things first. Gotta get that Mobility feat. +10 Speed and no opportunity attacks. Yes please. Aside from that, this is where I have a choice to make. I feel like I should do one of two things. Either I take my 3 levels of Fighter first, which has the advantage of getting me to my action surge and maneuvers quicker. Or I take 1 level Barb, then my 3 Fighter. This would give me the nice Rage bonuses. This is tempting because it would give me the basic resistances while raging as well as damage on all attacks instead of just my Monk weapon. Then I would still get the +2 dmg from dueling next level. The big sacrifice is that's longer I have to wait to do the extra action and til I get my maneuvers which is the other main focus of the build.

Fighter 3 - Eventually I'll have 3 levels in Fighter. Dueling will give a static +2 dmg with weapon. I thought about going with Heavy Weapons or Mariner. HW just didn't seem worth it for this build. Yes, I'd be able to use it if I wield a staff or spear, but the straight dmg seemed more reliable. Mariner was really tempting for the AC and climb and swim, especially with all of my move. The self heal will help survivability, the Action Surge will let me screw with yet another creature in a turn. And as you may have guessed the Combat Maneuvers from Battle Master are one of the main focuses, especially because they can be used by fists as well. The 3 maneuvers I was considering taking were Menacing Attack because Frightened can be a nasty effect, Parry for some extra defense, and Maneuvering Attack which will increase my support ability by allowing my party to reposition if needed.

Barbarian 3 - I know some people have some funk against trying to pair Barbarian with Monk because it just doesn't work for a damagey character and has an overlapping Unarmored Defense ability, but I feel like the benefits for this specific build are worth the dip. Rage gives damage bonus to all of my attacks, as well as resistance. Furious Attacks is extremely useful for what I want to do, because I really want to be able to hit each enemy I'm attacking the first time so that I can move on to the next target. Finally the Totem Warrior path can give me one of 2 really nice benefits. Either I can go with Bear and get that extra resistance, which will be nice when I'm using Furious Attacks. Or I can go with Elk for the extra 15ft movement which may come in handy.

The rest of the levels after 9 will be focused on Monk. I don't think any other feats would be worth taking over Ability boosts considering how MAD this character is. Weapon will be a spear because it seems 100% the best with the same damage as other top monk weapons, but also having versatility AND thrown. Darts are also nice to keep on hand, especially if I go Tabaxi and feel like sitting still for a turn to recover my feline agility.

Anyway, there it is. Any feedback or suggestions are welcome. Just please keep in mind that this is NOT meant to be a damage character. The goal is to annoy the enemy by knocking them down, frightening them, pushing them back, etc. Thank you!

[bid]

Level 4 - First things first. Gotta get that Mobility feat. +10 Speed and no opportunity attacks. Yes please. Aside from that, this is where I have a choice to make. I feel like I should do one of two things. Either I take my 3 levels of Fighter first, which has the advantage of getting me to my action surge and maneuvers quicker. Or I take 1 level Barb, then my 3 Fighter.
None of those will give you an ASI.
You need monk 4 for that.

Might as well get extra attack from monk 5 before dipping.

[Mako-Addiction]

Yea I totally just realized that after posting this. I'm used to Pathfinder so some of the 5e things are still a bit wonky to me. I think the ability score improvement change is kinda dumb tbh but what can ya do.

[MrStabby]

It might sound a bit odd, but could you do better without monk? Fighter battlemaster gets you some of your tricks, levels here can get you your mobility feat but also shield mastery for more control. With your barbarian speed bonus, tabaxi race and mobility do you really need the monk?

Furthermore monk makes you need both wisdom and dexterity spreading you really thin if you want to multiclass. Ditching monk can open you up to other options - Warlock gives you some good low level spell options pretty frequently from level 2. Bard can get you expertise for shoving and again some good utility options. Spells I would look out for are those like ensnaring strike and wrathful smite that give you some control on a hit - ancients paladin can get you both of those

It feels like you are spread a bit thin with your plan. Too many stats, too many classes. I don't have a problem with the idea of three classes but even within these there seems to be a lot of overlap

[Mako-Addiction]

The main reason I liked Monk for this is because it's the quickest/easiest way to get extra attacks. With the Monk/Fighter combo I can get up to 5 attacks in 1 turn by level 7 (though I wouldn't have the Fighter Maneuvers until 8 I suppose). Even if I went full fighter with dual wielding, I wouldn't match that until level 11, with far less mobility and no open hand techniques or stunning fist. The idea was to be able to hit as many different enemies in one turn as possible to spread the shenanigans. I'll look into the class options you mentioned, but if I'm going to switch a class out it will honestly be more likely Barbarian than anything. If I sub Barbarian, then I don't need strength anymore, so I can focus on Dex and Wis, with as much Con as I have left over. I thought the benefits from Rage, Furious Attacks, and Totem Warrior might be worth the extra dip, but I'll look into other options. I will say, dipping Bard, Lock, or Pally doesn't seem to help the MAD situation, does it? Yea I won't need Wis anymore, but instead I'll need Cha which puts me in the same place.

[bid]

With the Monk/Fighter combo I can get up to 5 attacks in 1 turn by level 7 (though I wouldn't have the Fighter Maneuvers until 8 I suppose).
6 if you flurry while surging. And it's all short-rest based so it's repeatable.

Yeah, I would monk 5 then BM 3. Unless you need magic damage, in which case monk 6 first.

[Keravath]

The main reason I liked Monk for this is because it's the quickest/easiest way to get extra attacks. With the Monk/Fighter combo I can get up to 5 attacks in 1 turn by level 7 (though I wouldn't have the Fighter Maneuvers until 8 I suppose). Even if I went full fighter with dual wielding, I wouldn't match that until level 11, with far less mobility and no open hand techniques or stunning fist. The idea was to be able to hit as many different enemies in one turn as possible to spread the shenanigans. I'll look into the class options you mentioned, but if I'm going to switch a class out it will honestly be more likely Barbarian than anything. If I sub Barbarian, then I don't need strength anymore, so I can focus on Dex and Wis, with as much Con as I have left over. I thought the benefits from Rage, Furious Attacks, and Totem Warrior might be worth the extra dip, but I'll look into other options. I will say, dipping Bard, Lock, or Pally doesn't seem to help the MAD situation, does it? Yea I won't need Wis anymore, but instead I'll need Cha which puts me in the same place.

Keep in mind that 5 or 6 attacks happens only once every short rest when you use your action surge, otherwise you will only have 3 or 4 attacks.

Full fighter dual wielding would also have 5 attacks/rd when they use action surge at level 5.

A level 11 fighter with action surge and either dual wielding, PAM or Xbow expert could have 7 attacks in one round.

You have rolled stats which makes things a bit more manageable stat wise. However, keep in mind that you only get Unarmored defence from the first class chosen with this feature. You can't pick and choose which unarmored defence to use.

Optimizing a barbarian needs strength, con and dex ... optimizing a monk needs dex and wis (barb AC is based on con and dex while their to hit and damage is str, on the other hand monk is dependent on wis+dex for both AC, to hit and strike DCs). This is why mixing monk+barbarian is challenging since you need at least str+dex+wis using monk unarmored defense or str+dex+con+wis using barbarian unarmored defence.

Fighter also doesn't bring that much to the build until you get to battlemaster maneuvers which can be useful in combination with some of the monk attacks and they also refresh on a short rest.

[Scarytincan]

I'd also say start monk 5 for the increase and more attacks + stunning fist. After that, honestly if ur not looking for damage and you ARE taking mobility, then I'd wonder why barb at all, especially since every multiclass level costs you ki points which u use for ur shenanigans. U don't really need dmg reduction if ur never staying in reach of the enemy (is the theory in the playstyle at least. Not ALWAYS feasible, but also depends on the rest of ur team and what kinda frontline u have).

Personally, I'd also say just go straight monk for even more ki, especially since u can start with nice strength to boot for more grapple +prone shenanigans even when ur out of ki, but at least I'd ask how attached to barb you really are...

[Scarytincan]

As to races, the tabaxi and bugbear are certainly solid, but also worth throwing into the consideration mix (not to push one way or another necessarily) is with the stats u rolled u could more easily pick up wood elf magic as an additional option for pass without trace and maybe thornwhip, or POSSIBLY shalalallalala for some extra early game dmg that would fall off later... I'd prob say whip for the pull shenanigans when u don't wanna open hand push

[Scarytincan]

For stats I MIGHT consider having con 14 and str with a higher stat for grappling and drag weight when grappling. Even if it ends up being the odd 15, str is the only stat that benefits from an odd number too (15 lbs more carry weight)

[Mako-Addiction]

I'm gonna try to respond to these in order so bare with me.
@Keravath I didn't realize previously that extra attacks would count for action surge but that makes sense. Either way it still ends up being about the same number of attacks, and in order to get that with Fighter and still be effective, I would want to take the two weapon fighting feat which further takes away from any ability boosts I get.

As far as Unarmored Defense goes, I'm fully aware that I can't pick and choose. I've already mentioned this in my post where I was talking about my reasons for taking monk first.

Next point, my intent is not to optimize barbarian. It's to exploit the damage bonus and resistance from Rage, advantage from reckless attacks, and provide a rage buff at 3. I will say that Barbarian 3 isn't as important, but the extra 15ft speed or the extra resistance is definitely tempting.

And what do you mean Fighter doesn't add much to the build? Especially now that I know action surge affects extra attacks. The +2 damage is a nice static bonus for 4 out of my 6 potential attacks. Second Wind is admittedly meh for this build, but I feel like Action Surge is VERY worth it, even before getting maneuvers.

@scarytincan as mentioned in my response above this, the main reasons for Barb were the rage and reckless attacks. Especially the latter. Having advantage on all 6 of my attacks so that I can potentially prone, frighten, push, or otherwise would make it much easier to hit and run to the next enemy. I don't want to be tied to one enemy trying to hit him 2-3 times unless I choose to. That being said, the resistance is a nice counter to everything else having advantage to attack me back. Yes, I will want to end my turns relatively far from my enemies, but I can still very easily be targeted with ranged attacks. The lvl 3 bear resistance would be especially nice because it would provide some defence against spellcasters. I did consider Wood Elf, but I liked the extra flavor of the Volo races if I'm being completely honest.

[Mako-Addiction]

I do, however see the point about loosing out on Ki by taking the Barbarian levels. Is there any other decent way to get advantage on some of my attacks?

[Quoz]

Lots of good points made already so I'll try to add mine without repeating many of the above.

For race, I would take a strong look at Grung. Dex and Con, standing long and high jumps (ignore terrain), and poison on unarmed strikes and piercing weapons. Yeah the save DC is set quite low, but if you go all out nova with action surge, ki, flurry, and Battlemaster maneuvers you can force a target to make more saves than the laws of probability can withstand. At monk 5/battlemaster 3 you can nova: 6 attacks with 4 stunning strikes, 2 open hand flurry riders, 3 battlemaster maneuvers and 6 poison saves. That is 15 saving throws in one round of combat, all with persistent or short rest resources.

If you go Barbarian and lock yourself into a strength based attacker (normally MAD but just barely doable with your rolled stats) a one level dip in rogue for expertise makes you incredibly good at grapples and shoves. Knocking a target prone at the start of your combo will give advantage, saving you a lot of pain from having to constantly reckless attack.

If you elect to streamline and take fewer classes but get more feats, PAM with a spear will give you your bonus action attack. For this variant you could drop monk and go fighter/barbarian. You can now use a shield, have the option of using medium armor, and still get a decent front-line skirmished with lots of hit and run attacks.

[blackjack50]

Hi! So I'm playing 5e and I was hoping for some input on my Monk build that I have planned out. Keep in mind I'm allowed PHB, XGE, and Volo's by default, though other stuff is subject to DM approval. Anything in my current build has already been approved.

Concept: High mobility character that flits across the battlefield providing general harassment of foes and support. Damage is a plus, but is ultimately secondary to the other abilities. The main features revolve around the Monks Open Hand abilities (particularly knocking enemies prone) and Combat Maneuvers granted by Fighter.

Race: I was torn between Tabaxi and Bugbear. Bugbear gives a slightly better combination of stats, and the 5ft reach is nice. Tabaxi still gives Dex which is nice, but the main thing is the Feline Agility ability. The extra movement speed seems incredible for a character that's typically going to be hitting multiple creatures once each, then positioning herself. Wood elf was also considered, but didn't seem to compare. I went with Tabaxi for now, partially because I like it better from an RP standpoint, but thoughts would be nice on this.

Stats: rolled 17, 16, 15, 14, 14, 12. These are currently put as Str 16, Dex 16 (14+2), Con 15, Int 12, Wis 17, Cha 15 (14+1). My reasoning for this was that Wis and either Str or Dex are my primary stats, as they are the ones going to be used as the DC for my abilities. The big choice I had to make was whether to have 16 Str and 16 Dex, or 14 Str and 18 Dex. Str is nice because it will ultimately be my main attacking stat later on due to benifitting from features. But Dex would increase my early game damage and AC. So any input on this would be nice as well.

Background: Outlander. Honestly it seemed like it made the most sense for my character being a Bugbear or Tabaxi, and provides some nifty features.

Classes: Barbarian 3, Fighter 3, Monk rest
Here's the fun part. So I have for sure decided to take Monk 3 first for multiple reasons. 1) The character is meant to be a fancy monk so it made RP sense to level it first. 2) Open Fist is one of the core features this build focuses on. 3) Wanted to take before Barbarian because it's Unarmored Defense is better for my character. I already have to have Wis for my DCs, so doing it this way means I can have slightly less focus on Con. I wanted to take Monk before Fighter mostly because I'm taking Dueling as fighter and it seemed kinda janky to do that first.

Level 4 - First things first. Gotta get that Mobility feat. +10 Speed and no opportunity attacks. Yes please. Aside from that, this is where I have a choice to make. I feel like I should do one of two things. Either I take my 3 levels of Fighter first, which has the advantage of getting me to my action surge and maneuvers quicker. Or I take 1 level Barb, then my 3 Fighter. This would give me the nice Rage bonuses. This is tempting because it would give me the basic resistances while raging as well as damage on all attacks instead of just my Monk weapon. Then I would still get the +2 dmg from dueling next level. The big sacrifice is that's longer I have to wait to do the extra action and til I get my maneuvers which is the other main focus of the build.

Fighter 3 - Eventually I'll have 3 levels in Fighter. Dueling will give a static +2 dmg with weapon. I thought about going with Heavy Weapons or Mariner. HW just didn't seem worth it for this build. Yes, I'd be able to use it if I wield a staff or spear, but the straight dmg seemed more reliable. Mariner was really tempting for the AC and climb and swim, especially with all of my move. The self heal will help survivability, the Action Surge will let me screw with yet another creature in a turn. And as you may have guessed the Combat Maneuvers from Battle Master are one of the main focuses, especially because they can be used by fists as well. The 3 maneuvers I was considering taking were Menacing Attack because Frightened can be a nasty effect, Parry for some extra defense, and Maneuvering Attack which will increase my support ability by allowing my party to reposition if needed.

Barbarian 3 - I know some people have some funk against trying to pair Barbarian with Monk because it just doesn't work for a damagey character and has an overlapping Unarmored Defense ability, but I feel like the benefits for this specific build are worth the dip. Rage gives damage bonus to all of my attacks, as well as resistance. Furious Attacks is extremely useful for what I want to do, because I really want to be able to hit each enemy I'm attacking the first time so that I can move on to the next target. Finally the Totem Warrior path can give me one of 2 really nice benefits. Either I can go with Bear and get that extra resistance, which will be nice when I'm using Furious Attacks. Or I can go with Elk for the extra 15ft movement which may come in handy.

The rest of the levels after 9 will be focused on Monk. I don't think any other feats would be worth taking over Ability boosts considering how MAD this character is. Weapon will be a spear because it seems 100% the best with the same damage as other top monk weapons, but also having versatility AND thrown. Darts are also nice to keep on hand, especially if I go Tabaxi and feel like sitting still for a turn to recover my feline agility.

Anyway, there it is. Any feedback or suggestions are welcome. Just please keep in mind that this is NOT meant to be a damage character. The goal is to annoy the enemy by knocking them down, frightening them, pushing them back, etc. Thank you!

Dex should by higher than strength and wisdom should be as well (wis as the highest isn’t bad because it makes making the checks against you harder, but dex gives better damage since all attacks are dex based). No need to reinvent the wheel with multiclassing and so on. A monk is a solid character and as long as your dex and wis are high...you are golden for most combat k can think of. Especially if you want to force checks.

Take mobile feat and constantly hit people and run.

[Damon_Tor]

I'm going to suggest Simic Hybrid over Tabaxi for two reasons: just as fast, but the Simic can be that fast consistently (and it's cooler the way he does it, by jumping into the air then gliding) and then the Simic's superior grappling ability using their special appendages, if grappling is the way you want to go. And if you're multiclassing a bunch, the 1d6 unarmed attacks will help make the delayed monk progression somewhat less painful. Also relevant, the Tabaxi has a "wasted" stat boost, +1 to Cha, while the Simic has +2 Con and +1 to whatever (Dex, for you).

[Scarytincan]

Next point, my intent is not to optimize barbarian. It's to exploit the damage bonus and resistance from Rage, advantage from reckless attacks, and provide a rage buff at 3. I will say that Barbarian 3 isn't as important, but the extra 15ft speed or the extra resistance is definitely tempting.

And what do you mean Fighter doesn't add much to the build? Especially now that I know action surge affects extra attacks. The +2 damage is a nice static bonus for 4 out of my 6 potential attacks. Second Wind is admittedly meh for this build, but I feel like Action Surge is VERY worth it, even before getting maneuvers.

@scarytincan as mentioned in my response above this, the main reasons for Barb were the rage and reckless attacks. Especially the latter. Having advantage on all 6 of my attacks so that I can potentially prone, frighten, push, or otherwise would make it much easier to hit and run to the next enemy. I don't want to be tied to one enemy trying to hit him 2-3 times unless I choose to. That being said, the resistance is a nice counter to everything else having advantage to attack me back. Yes, I will want to end my turns relatively far from my enemies, but I can still very easily be targeted with ranged attacks. The lvl 3 bear resistance would be especially nice because it would provide some defence against spellcasters. I did consider Wood Elf, but I liked the extra flavor of the Volo races if I'm being completely honest.

If u want the dmg, then yes fighter style and barb rage help there, but I was focusing on ur statement that dmg was ultimately secondary, in which case you are investing 3 to 6 levels to get that damage, which is no small thing for ultimately not a huge damage boost.

I guess the biggest thing I can say is remember 'opportunity cost'. Sure bring able to cast 3rd level spells could also bring very useful for a given build for example, but what are you giving up to get it and what are you pushing back?

Movement speed from barb is nice, it also pushes back monk movement speed increase, which would be a big less but not nothing. Damage resistance is nice for ranged attacks, but monks are already possibly the most resilient against ranged and later magic damage and abilities in the game, especially if ur NOT using reckless attack and giving them advantage. Deflect arrows scales off levels and evasion /still mind /diamond soul require levels to get there. And all these shoves /prones /stuns require ki, which need levels, and much more often ESPECIALLY for the early part (most part of most games) of the game u are more likely to be gated by running out of ki for these things than you are to be gated by misses. And action surge while great, is again only one time.

Does this build work? Sure! I just think as is you will be doing more damage and less crowd control than you appear to be aiming for, tho maybe I am misreading things.

[Wildarm]

Hi! So I'm playing 5e and I was hoping for some input on my Monk build that I have planned out. Keep in mind I'm allowed PHB, XGE, and Volo's by default, though other stuff is subject to DM approval. Anything in my current build has already been approved.

Concept: High mobility character that flits across the battlefield providing general harassment of foes and support. Damage is a plus, but is ultimately secondary to the other abilities. The main features revolve around the Monks Open Hand abilities (particularly knocking enemies prone) and Combat Maneuvers granted by Fighter.

Stats: rolled 17, 16, 15, 14, 14, 12.



Perhaps you want to look into a Tortle Strength Monk and ignore optimizing unarmed defense.

18 Str, 15 Dex, 16 Con, 12 Int, 18 Wis, 14 Cha
Barb 1/Monk X

Mobility is a nice feat though you could simply take drunken master and achieve a similar effect. Can max your strength with +2 ASI if you do that. Rage lets you tank pretty easily when mobility isn't needed. Avoid dipping too much as a Monk. Costs you Ki and unarmed damage progression.

If you are keen on unarmed defense, look for wood elf. It's gonna be the best bang for your buck as a monk. You get longbow proficiency some extra movement, darkvision and perception.

14 Str, 18 Dex, 15 Con, 18 Wis, 12 Int, 14 Cha

Same caveats apply for the dipping other classes. Keep it to single barbarian dip at level 1 if you can.