New Avatarist, advice asked.

[Dallas-Dakota]

First of all, I work with paint, so thats clear:smalltongue:
Here are some samples of my work.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/legolas-maxx/Sanddemon-avatar.jpg
Sand Demon
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/legolas-maxx/Deathslayer-avatar1-2.jpg
An haloween avatar, for deathslayer7, though it was denied, but it was a great practice.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/legolas-maxx/Headlessninja-haloweenavatar-1-3.jpg
This is a halloween avatar for Headless-ninja, I made it trying to use the advice that guide had given me.


Advice is welcome!

I read it, its a big help though the pixels are acting weird in paint with me.

[Simius]

First: read this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33471&highlight=Paint)

That should really improve your avatar-making. Then we'll talk further :smallwink:

[Dallas-Dakota]

Simius, I read it and if you look at my first post, with samples, you can see a third avatar(not resized), I made with the advice of the guide.

[Simius]

Huh.. Perhaps you need to read it again?

ok, here's some advice:

Zero) Do not EVER use the MS Paint Airbrush feature. Just don't.
1) Make the head round.
2) Make the body smaller.
3) Stick figures don't have shoulders.
4) The arms are attached where the head joins the body.
5) Things have outlines, preferably black ones (in classic OoTS style, that is)
6) Please look at the Giant's work for the proper proportions. Please.
7) Try to be consistant in the line thickness you use. When you get better and start adding more details, you can experiment with other thicknesses. At the moment I advice you to use lines at least twice as thick as those used in your samples.
8) Use Irfanview to resize. This will give you a better view of what the avatar will look like. Irfinview will automatically antialiase the drawing, making the lines smooth and increase the quality. It's also very easy the make the background transparant with Irfanview. Google and download it. It's free and safe.

[DarkCorax]

A couple more pieces of advice; try and use a square canvas, preferably one easily divisible by 117 and the spray tool probably isn't a great tool, especially if you are resizing, which is usualy a good idea with paint avatars to reduce pixelation.

But they aren't bad for first attempts, the proportions on the last one aren't too bad.

[Raiser Blade]

It looks like you have a lot of potential but i wouldn't use paint unless you meanto make something pixely. I would like to see what you could do with a real art program.

[Mr_Saturn]

6) Please look at the Giant's work for the proper proportions. Please.


OotS characters are three heads tall. Counting the head. Halflings are about 2 heads all.

Follow simius's advice and see if you have any other questions.

@Simius: oval heads are alright in certian areas, but for new avatarists i would definately tell you to make circle heads.

[Illiterate Scribe]

1. Get Inkscape.

2. Use skills (which you do have, it's just that the materials are impeding you)

3. ...

4. PROFIT!

[Simius]

It looks like you have a lot of potential but i wouldn't use paint unless you meanto make something pixely. I would like to see what you could do with a real art program.

There are many artists here who can do awesome things with MS Paint. The pixelation can easily be fixed by resizing. It just requires a little bit more practise.


@Simius: oval heads are alright in certian areas, but for new avatarists i would definately tell you to make circle heads.

Yes, developing your own style which diverts from Rich's is not wrong, but unless you can do something really different and do it in really good quality (look at Vael, for example), people will just continue to see it as a failed attempt to draw an OoTS-style stick figure.

[Baboon Army]

I use paint, and here is my advise:

The "Line", "Curve", "Ellipse" and "Fill With Color" are the only tools you will ever need.

400x400, as said in the tutorial, is a pretty good image size to start with, since you can fit the right amount of detail in there.

DO NOT resize using paint, paint isn't good at that(I use photoshop to resize)

Hope this was helpfull :smallwink:

[Lissou]

I use paint, and here is my advise:

The "Line", "Curve", "Ellipse" and "Fill With Color" are the only tools you will ever need.

400x400, as said in the tutorial, is a pretty good image size to start with, since you can fit the right amount of detail in there.

DO NOT resize using paint, paint isn't good at that(I use photoshop to resize)

Hope this was helpfull :smallwink:


I actually use the "rectangle" tool for bodies, and it's good for belts and such. I know it's basically the "line" tool used 4 times, but it's helpful, so I wouldn't restrict the use of it.

[Artemician]

I actually use the "rectangle" tool for bodies, and it's good for belts and such. I know it's basically the "line" tool used 4 times, but it's helpful, so I wouldn't restrict the use of it.

I find myself using the Pencil tool a lot more than Line, personally. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

[Baboon Army]

Well, then I guess every one has their own methods that are easier for them to use.

[Quincunx]

I use a combination of tools. First I choose a light color and freely sketch with the paintbrush* **, then I pick up darker colors and draw over the scribbles with the curve tool***, then I choose the most appropriate curves and bucket-fill them black. (Also I'm perfectionist enough to use zoom and pencil tool to perfect each curve, but that's unnecessary.)

*Sketch in MS Paint (saved as *.bmp, Photobucket auto-converted to *.jpg) and after resizing in IrfanView (*.png) -- less pixelization

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/Quincunx_GitP/tzimstretch.jpg vs. http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/Quincunx_GitP/tzimstretchprofile.png


**Sketches which fiddle with proportion and view
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/Quincunx_GitP/tzimstretchprofile.png vs. http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/Quincunx_GitP/tzimstretch3quarter.png

***Laying smooth curves atop the sketches
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/Quincunx_GitP/tzimstretchoutlines.png

Full-size version after pencil tool and cut/pasting one arm further to the left

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/Quincunx_GitP/tzimstretchoutlines-1.jpg

[Dallas-Dakota]

Thanks you all for your advice!

Simius :
1 about the paint brush : I never use it, or atleast use it as little as possible.

2,3,4,5,6, : Noted!

7 : I mostly use fourth thickness line, though I use second for smirks and likes of.

8 I will look it up!

Raiser_B1ade : Thanks, and I'm looking for it!

DarkCorax : Thanks, And I didnt know that yet about the spray.

Simius, Mr.Saturn : I try!

Baboon_army : Done & Done, though I also use rectangle device.

Lissou : look at above mentioned statement.

Artemician : I use line waaay more then pencil, but if it looks good, its good!

Quincunx : Very interesting style, just not mine, I tried it one and it came out looking like a deformed & tortured sheep or something which was standing on three legs.

[AmberVael]

Yes, developing your own style which diverts from Rich's is not wrong, but unless you can do something really different and do it in really good quality (look at Vael, for example), people will just continue to see it as a failed attempt to draw an OoTS-style stick figure.
Aww, gee, thanks.


Anywho...
Inkscape can be found here. (http://www.inkscape.org/download/?lang=en)
I highly recommend it. It's what I've used (except for my first avatar) since I started.
My first avatar was created in paint.
It didn't look so great.
In fact, it looked crappy.
The only bonus there was to it was that it looked liked it was holding Indurain's head (by accident) and it gave a number of giggles.
Back on topic...

Paint can be used very well, and some people I've talked to (take Neoriceisgood, for example) make amazing pictures with it. But I've come to see that it has a style that requires a lot of patience, and the willingness to do things pixel by pixel when needed (*shudder*).
Now this isn't to say that Inkscape is the lazy man's art, but I am willing to say that, in some ways, it does a hell of a lot more of the work for you.
Furthermore, it allows a simpler and swifter system of editing that MS paint. If you draw a line that isn't quite right? Just leave it and mess around with the nodes- don't bother start over again, or drawing a new one.
It is, however, a completely different system. Don't expect to go in there and find the paint bucket tool (you have no IDEA how much that confused me when I started. :smalltongue:)

Now, as for the avatars you've already done...
I have a few pieces of advice, for whether you are doing OotS style or attempting a new one.

1) Find a consistent body pattern.
What kind of body do you want to use? Is it going to be a rectangle? Possibly more circular or rounded? Pick one, stick with it, and practice with it until you can make it look good as a body.
What kind of head? Circular? Oval? Give it a reasonable proportion to the body as well, then stick with that size and shape combination. For stick figure and more cartoony characters, larger heads look best.
Where will the arms and legs come out? If they are stick figure arms/legs... connect it at the top edge of the body. Really, it looks best.

2) Outlines are nice.
I think the others have said this already.

3) Editing IS YOUR FRIEND.
When something is made, it is not done. Zoom out, look at it, figure out what could be improved- where details could be, what looks out of proportion... and then fix it! Take your time! That's the great thing about computer made art- there isn't anything that prevents you from starting over, or taking something back. Try and try and try and try again...

4) Try details.
Frankly, your avatars are pretty plain. I may like vanilla, but that doesn't mean I have good taste. :smalltongue: (But it is the best! Really! Don't diss on the vanilla ice cream, people! Simplicity CAN be good!)
While a certain level of simplicity can be good (for crying out loud, we're talking about stick figures here), if something has a head, a body, something that might be a shirt, and then an item in hand...
Well, that's boring.
Find things to add interest, whether it be rumples, or belts (I love belts and sashes waaaaay too much), or a necklace, or tattoos, or mystic runes, or edges, collars, seams, bracelets, rings, capes- I could keep going for a while...

5) Practice.
After doing step five, do step five again. I want you to look like a cheesy, simple little loop program-

:Label 1
:Practice
:Goto 1

Frankly, I'm sick of people saying "oh, I don't have talent" or "I'd never be that good..."
My first avatars were horrendous. Old School week made me cringe when I realized some people were using my avatars- cause they were JUST THAT BAD.
Now I think I can say I do passably well.
Practice will never make perfect. It might not make you as good as someone else.
But by Hel and Hades, practice CAN get you to a level that people will appreciate. So don't give up just because you get criticism now, or don't feel you're getting anywhere. If you think your skill is stagnating, then try radically different things to try and work at different angles. Practice can always help somehow.

[Simius]

Simius :
1 about the paint brush : I never use it, or atleast use it as little as possible.


Did I say paintbrush? gah! I meant the airbrush (or spray tool as DarkCorax calls it). *edits*

You can use the paint brush as much as you like. Sorry.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Simius : still the same, I only use airbrush for some types of magic, in my view : people, magic doesnt has a realy border unless you specify it to something like a magic missile or something!!!

Vael : I know, never give up becouse of criticism.
I know, practice helps alot(I saw coriths attempt at first avatar:smalleek::smalltongue:).
1 I mostly use round heads, if I make it oval I think long hair really makes the face fall away unless done really good.

2Yup.

3 They'd look way more crappy if I didnt edit as much as I do, though I did the last one in......30 minutes.

4 Vanilla rules! and I'l try to make some tatoes or scars on future ones, see how'l that work.

5
Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 Repeats 5 etc.

Criticism = bad
Constructive criticism = Good and welcome
all compliments = Always liked!
Mix of last two, = Good, Liked and welcomed!

Ok, people, I've downloaded Inkscape.
Its definetely strange, using paint all the time earlier.
So I'l be doing some other things in paint first and do some things in inkscape and slowly step over I think.

[banjo1985]

Just a couple of points that may be helpful:

Your stuff shows a little promise. The proportions aren't bad, but it's untidy and it will be hard to improve with Paint. There are several artists on here that do things on Paint that I couldn't hope to recreate in any art program, but in my opinion it takes a hell of a lot of practice and skill to do this. My advice is like what several others have said:

Get Inkscape

It's free, fairly small, and easy to use if you check out the basic tutorial in the help menu. Everyones begining avatars aren't too great, but inkscape makes it easier to keep them tisy and is very intuitive with a bit of practice.

One a side note, for your own confidence I would suggest not doing any avatar requests until you've had some more practice in your program of choice. Having requests refused after you've worked on them can be very disheartening, and I wouldn't want to see someone give up due to criticism before you've had chance to get good. Practice, maybe throw up new creations on this thread for people to comment on and see your improvement. As well as helping confidence, constructive advice from others on this board will help you improve even quicker!

EDIT: Oh and I saw your attempt at an evil version of House off the tele on the request thread. That is by by far the best thing you've posted so far, proving that with practice you will get better quickly!

[Jacklu]

I'd have to agree with the advice posted here. The most important thing is to keep at it. Some... ok, most, of my early stuff sucked... badly. but that didn't stop me from continuing. In fact, you would be hard pressed to find an artists on the boards who doesn't think their early work left a lot to be desired. But keep working at it and you're sure to get better.
That being said, I would tend to agree with those who suggested finding a different medium. Inkscape works great, though I personally use Sodipodi. They are basically the same but you just can't account for taste I guess:smalltongue: . Note, this does not mean MS Paint can't be used, some of the coolest avatars I've seen were made using paint, but I find vector based programs to be a bit easier for stick-figure drawings.
Second, I wholeheartedly agree with Vael. Find a style that works for you and stick with it. As you become familiar with a particular look, you're artwork will start look more natural, and thus better. For instance, whenever I start a new work I always start with the basic circle head and rectangle body. From there I work around them until I have something I like. Even my current avatar has my starting pattern underneath all the layers.
Third, don't give up. Seriously. Don't... or else...
And lastly, RUN!!! Get out while you still can! the world of the avatar artist is a cut-throat world of kill or be killed! The moment you turn your back they'll delete your photobucket account and throw you to the wolves! Don't trust them! Before it's too la- *AAAAAhhh!!!!* Gack!* *stab!* My spleen! *stab! stab! stabbity stab!*Herrrrrr- blah......

[Dallas-Dakota]

Banjo1985 : I downloaded inkscape and it looked weird, so I'm gonna read the manual when I have time.

I will be accepting avatar/project reqeusts becouse it sets me a goal.
I know they can be disheartening when not accepted, but thats life, its hard!

Jacklu : I'm gonna read the Inkscape manual and try it with that.
secondly yup, art style is almost unique.
thirdly : I use that, editing is the greatest advantage of art making your pc.

and about that last comment *casts : Protect from flaming and killing and torture*

[Mr_Saturn]

Banjo1985 : I downloaded inkscape and it looked weird, so I'm gonna read the manual when I have time.

We actually have a playground guide for drawing avatars in oots style. I can't believe noone posted one yet. Maybe i'm blind. But here goes.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=185496&postcount=99

So theres a step-by-step guide for drawing in oots style. My first avatar wasnt so bad after following these steps. Although i followed the sodipodi guide in the first page of the thread. Yours is a inkscape guide but it should be fairly close. :smallcool: Its actually a stickyed thread on the a&c section, masqueraded under a guide for adobe illustrator. Sodipodi guide in first page, inkscape guide in the 4th i think. But i linked it for you too.

[Dr. Bath]

I don't know how you've done it, Dallas, but you manged to get advice from loads of the currently active gods/goddesses of avataring. This is quite some feat, I can tell you.

If you want to set yourself a goal, try and draw a few characters from the comic and do them as well as you possibly can, without tracing. This should help both by introducing you to the simple style first (walk before you run) and getting used to the proportions used in the OotS style. Once you've done that you can add details, refine your style etc. etc.

If this repeats what someone else said, I apologise.

Keep at it dallas.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Mr. Saturn, a many thanks and a lot more!

Dr. bath :
I think its my high charisma score:smalltongue:
I'l try.
Here I tried this : Elan jumping off the ship and V shouting at him.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/legolas-maxx/Elanjumpingofftheship.jpg

Please excuse me if I didnt get the colors perfect, I dont know how to copy the colors into paint or watever you guys do.

Note : Yes, I just noticed I had forgot V's cloak, I knew something wass missing!

Here I tried to do some things for Wadledo.
Wadledo Pirate :
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/legolas-maxx/Wadledo-eldritchpirate-1.png

Wadledo Knight(Yes, I know he looks High)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/legolas-maxx/Wadledo-knight.png

[Dallas-Dakota]

And some new stuff(btw, did this thread die?)
Baby thog!
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/legolas-maxx/Babythog-1.jpg

A pict scout if I remember correctly, I dont remember for who I did it.....
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/legolas-maxx/NazdeAvatar-1.jpg