Level up question: How to spell slots arrive?

[Evil DM Mark3]

OK, hope this is quick.

Sorcerer levels up in the middle of a dungeon and gets new spell slots. They party are still fairly fresh and want to keep fighting. Can he use the new spell-slots he just gained? What about new spells he just learned?

What about a non-spontaneous caster like a wizard?

[schreier]

I think it's up to the DM.

Here's a thread that has an interesting discussion with different perspectives:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?328903-Leveling-Up-With-Without-A-Rest

Basically, can either be right then, or require rest

Personally, with spells though, I would say that they require rest to "replenish" -- so your max spell slots goes up, but it wouldn't be available until you next rest (if sorcerer)

For wizard, definitely would require rest to memorize a new spell.

I find the idea that you just learned 2 new spells weird though conceptually, since wizards generally require research to learn new spells (and they have to add them to their spellbook ... not sure how you do that mid-adventure)

[Blackhawk748]

I look at it like it's an anime. Through force of personal power they have gone begins their usual limits after being tested.

With Wizards it doesn't work so nice

[Psyren]

The default rule in Pathfinder is that XP rewards and therefore levels take place "at the end of a game session" (CRB 30, "Character Advancement".) Because Pathfinder doesn't require tracking XP for anything, you're not expected to get it on the fly. If your GM is deviating from that default rule and letting you level up mid-session, they need to figure out what implications that has for any abilities or properties that you gain.

[Evil DM Mark3]

The default rule in Pathfinder is that XP rewards and therefore levels take place "at the end of a game session" (CRB 30, "Character Advancement".) Because Pathfinder doesn't require tracking XP for anything, you're not expected to get it on the fly. If your GM is deviating from that default rule and letting you level up mid-session, they need to figure out what implications that has for any abilities or properties that you gain.That doesn't help, unless your group always makes camp at the end of the play session. It is perfectly possible (and, indeed in my experience common) for a dungoneering session to stretch over more than one gaming session

[Psyren]

That doesn't help, unless your group always makes camp at the end of the play session. It is perfectly possible (and, indeed in my experience common) for a dungoneering session to stretch over more than one gaming session

Certainly, but the break gives you a lot more time to decide what makes the most sense for the situation at hand. (Unless your session ends mid-combat anyway.)

[exelsisxax]

That doesn't help, unless your group always makes camp at the end of the play session. It is perfectly possible (and, indeed in my experience common) for a dungoneering session to stretch over more than one gaming session

Then the answer is unambiguous: you don't get any spell slots. You never prepared them or prepped spells into them, so you don't get any yet(unless you can do something with unreadied spell slots somehow)

[Evil DM Mark3]

Certainly, but the break gives you a lot more time to decide what makes the most sense for the situation at hand. (Unless your session ends mid-combat anyway.)
I do wonder if, perhaps, there is a reason I am seeking advice that might, how might I put this, decide what makes most sense? Might I be trying to get ahead of an impending problem? No. Besides your advice as to when the level up happens is exactly what I needed to know to address a fringe case of what happens at that point.

Then the answer is unambiguous: you don't get any spell slots. You never prepared them or prepped spells into them, so you don't get any yet(unless you can do something with unreadied spell slots somehow)No, its ambiguous. Nothing says the slots are empty, indeed one could argue if Mr Paladin over there has just found the energy to smite an extra time per day then they should be available. After all they also only come back after a certain time has passed. What about hp? Those are even more rest dependant but I don't see many people argue that a fully healed character gets injured when they level up.

[Psyren]

I do wonder if, perhaps, there is a reason I am seeking advice that might, how might I put this, decide what makes most sense? Might I be trying to get ahead of an impending problem? No. Besides your advice as to when the level up happens is exactly what I needed to know to address a fringe case of what happens at that point.

No, its ambiguous. Nothing says the slots are empty, indeed one could argue if Mr Paladin over there has just found the energy to smite an extra time per day then they should be available. After all they also only come back after a certain time has passed. What about hp? Those are even more rest dependant but I don't see many people argue that a fully healed character gets injured when they level up.

Very well:

The RAW answer for prepared casters is that you need 8 hours of rest before you can prepare spells. You can prepare more spells later in the day if you chose to leave slots open during that initial preparation (CRB 218). Getting new slots during the day was not a choice you made during preparation, therefore you can't put anything in these slots by RAW. This restriction (i.e. the choice must be made during initial preparation) applies to divine prepared casters as well (CRB 220), though depending on the time of day that the divine caster levels up they might be able to pray and fill them normally.

That brings us to spontaneous casters; this one is more ambiguous, because technically they only need to rest to recover "regain spell slots they used up the day before" (CRB 220.) For me personally, I wouldn't give them an advantage over prepared casters here, and thus enforce the need to rest first on them too, but the choice is yours.

Hope this helps.

[Kurald Galain]

Sorcerer levels up in the middle of a dungeon and gets new spell slots. They party are still fairly fresh and want to keep fighting. Can he use the new spell-slots he just gained? What about new spells he just learned?
I would rule that no, he can't; and everyone's resources replenish when the party rests.

I realize that the rules are ambiguous on this matter; I'd rule this way mainly to avoid extra bookkeeping or splat-searching in the middle of a dangerous scene (i.e. the middle of a dungeon) and also to reduce discrepancy when some PCs level up and others don't. HTH.

[Diarmuid]

I'm in the camp with those saying spontaneous casters need to rest for new spell slots to be usable. But, if they learned a new spell of a level they still had available slots to cast I would let them cast a new spell just learned.

[Elkad]

If I let you level up mid-dungeon (which varies from game to game), you get things like feats, skills, max hitpoints, and spells known.
A sorc could use existing slots to cast a new spell. A druid who still had a wildshape left, and hit 8th level, could become a Large creature with that use.


You don't get the spell slots, or the actual hitpoints (though you could heal up immediately), or additional uses of abilities like Rage, until you rest.


No, I don't have any book support for it. I just made a rational call.