A homebrew fighter optimisation

[Trandir]

Well it's time to build another PC and so I ask in the playground for advice.


I will play in a party of 5 at lv 2. Composed by:
a gnome rogue;
a halfling wizard;
a dwarf barbarian;
the 4th is still deciding on what to play;
And me.


I will play a fighter and the DM accepted my very own homebrew to play with (the Linecrecker).
Here is a link for the subclass: Linecracker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?599901-My-first-homebrew-the-Shield-Saint-and-my-second-one-the-Linecracker)

We will use some particular houserules so keep them in mind (this DM 3.Xfied 5e a little):
You get a feat at lv 1, 5, 9, 13, 17 and 20 but all feats exept HAM no longer provide the +1 bonus to an ability score (some got little nerfs/buffs but most of them are untouched but if one of the modified one were to come up I will provide this table version). You can even discuss with the DM the feat that you can get at lv 1, 9, 17 and 20 since they can be tailor made to suit your wishes (like a 1 every short rest wild shape or custom spells to add to your prepared spell list at no additional cost and other effects similar in power);
You get an ASI at every even level but the increase is just 1 instead of 2 (fighters at lv 6 and 14 can choose between a 3 point ASI or a feat and 1 ASI). But no single ability can reach 18 before lv 4 or 20 before lv 10 (no difference for the first one and a slight delay on the second.


My plan is to take variant human grab Defense combat style, HAM and Shield Master at lv 1 and live my life as a little tank walking around.

We are using point buy and I suppose that
Str 15+ 1(HAM)+ 1(Human)
Dex 10
Con 15+ 1(Human)+ 1(lv 2 ASI)
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 8
Is nice but you Giants probably have a better distribution in mind already.
Any other idea/advice?


Thanks in advance to everyone that will answer

Bonus: here are the most notable houserules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?599773-What-to-play-with-quot-some-quot-houserules&p=24185087#post24185087) if anyone wants to check them out (this DM made some other changes by the way)

[Quoz]

Are the feats tied to character level or class level? There are exploits to multiclassing either way. If tied to class level then a crazy multiclass build could be really viable, as every new class gets a feat. And with the +1 stat each level your ability scores won't be much of a concern.

If feat progression is tied to character level, that also frees you up to multiclass more as you won't miss out on feats and ASIs for having several dips in other classes.

I would take a look at picking up maybe a few caster levels, or at least magic initiate (maybe both, you will get lots of feats). Adding a few wizard levels to get Enlarge, shield, absorb elements, and maybe a few others could really help you out. Some stripe of cleric for bless and guidance would also be good. A low level source of persistent AoE damage like Create Bonfire or later spirit guardians would be a solid addition to your style as you can shove people into it again and again.

The homebrew subclass looks kind of cool, lots of options for battlefield control via prone/shove/shield rush. As this build looks like it will favor having a free hand, and at 7th level you get expertise and advantage with Athletics, adding grappling to your build will be a nice addition. A grappled character has speed 0, and that means they dont stand up when you knock them over.

As for stat distribution, I would start with your 15s as 14s, give yourself more in either dex or int. You can't get them up to 18 until level 4 anyway, there's no difference between having them at 16 or 17 when the game starts. You just get more stats overall, which means getting them higher while waiting for the cap to raise at level 10.

[Trandir]

Well some points to answer:

Are the feats tied to character level or class level? There are exploits to multiclassing either way. If tied to class level then a crazy multiclass build could be really viable, as every new class gets a feat. And with the +1 stat each level your ability scores won't be much of a concern.

If feat progression is tied to character level, that also frees you up to multiclass more as you won't miss out on feats and ASIs for having several dips in other classes.


The feats are tied to Character level. The ASI are not. This means that 2 level dips are far better than the usual 1 or 3 that I' ve seen around.



I would take a look at picking up maybe a few caster levels, or at least magic initiate (maybe both, you will get lots of feats). Adding a few wizard levels to get Enlarge, shield, absorb elements, and maybe a few others could really help you out. Some stripe of cleric for bless and guidance would also be good. A low level source of persistent AoE damage like Create Bonfire or later spirit guardians would be a solid addition to your style as you can shove people into it again and again.


If I had to choose a magic class I'd go with sorcerer (shadow): you get lot of cantrips, darkvision, some matamagic for quicken and another one (this DM reintroduced maximize spell and it costs points=spell lv so Sleep is now a death sentence to most mooks) and sometime a no to go down. But I don't know if I want to delay my own features and we will have a wizard in the party to get buffs from.



The homebrew subclass looks kind of cool, lots of options for battlefield control via prone/shove/shield rush. As this build looks like it will favor having a free hand, and at 7th level you get expertise and advantage with Athletics, adding grappling to your build will be a nice addition. A grappled character has speed 0, and that means they dont stand up when you knock them over.


Thanks, the idea was to create a class that moves around the opponents like a bag of potatoes and some debuffs to be a true team player.



As for stat distribution, I would start with your 15s as 14s, give yourself more in either dex or int. You can't get them up to 18 until level 4 anyway, there's no difference between having them at 16 or 17 when the game starts. You just get more stats overall, which means getting them higher while waiting for the cap to raise at level 10.

Well the idea was to get Str to 18 at lv 4 but I can do it at lv 6 with the 3 point ASI. But your idea might be better. I can do:
Str 14+ 1(human)+ 1(HAM)
Dex 12
Con 14 +1(human)+ 1(lv 2 ASI)
Two mental stats to 10 and one to 13 (to either multiclass or take magic initiate that now has the same ability requirement as multiclass)


Thanks for the advice they are all pretty usefull

[Expected]

I agree with Quoz about the ability score distribution. Also, I'd reconsider Heavy Armor Master--it's effective against hordes of weak enemies with non-magical weapons, but there is opportunity cost when choosing it compared to +2 Con, Resilient, Lucky, etc.

I would start with, depending on your preference:
Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha
16-8-16-10-13-10 or 16-12-16-8-13-8

[Trandir]

I agree with Quoz about the ability score distribution. Also, I'd reconsider Heavy Armor Master--it's effective against hordes of weak enemies with non-magical weapons, but there is opportunity cost when choosing it compared to +2 Con, Resilient, Lucky, etc.

I would start with, depending on your preference:
Str-Dex-Con-Int-Wis-Cha
16-8-16-10-13-10 or 16-12-16-8-13-8

HAM is the only feat that still carries the +1 to an ability that's the reason I am considering it (and also to make more likely that this PC survives past lv 2).
I can't take +2 Con since at lv 1 you get a feat and notbthe choice between a feat and a regular ASI. If you meant tough it has been nerfed to 1 HP per level since now feats are worth a lot less most classes would have take it soon or later.
Resilient is worth considering further down the line probably around lv 9 since it no longer provides the +1 and +2 at low levels probably is worst than either HAM or Shield Master.
Lucky got nerfed, quite a bit. It grants 1 reroll per day plus another reroll at lv 5. So up to 2 rerolls and the second is delayed.

Yes the stat array can be more spread opposed to the usual focus on 1-2 abilities.

[Expected]

HAM is the only feat that still carries the +1 to an ability that's the reason I am considering it (and also to make more likely that this PC survives past lv 2).
I can't take +2 Con since at lv 1 you get a feat and notbthe choice between a feat and a regular ASI. If you meant tough it has been nerfed to 1 HP per level since now feats are worth a lot less most classes would have take it soon or later.
Resilient is worth considering further down the line probably around lv 9 since it no longer provides the +1 and +2 at low levels probably is worst than either HAM or Shield Master.
Lucky got nerfed, quite a bit. It grants 1 reroll per day plus another reroll at lv 5. So up to 2 rerolls and the second is delayed.

Yes the stat array can be more spread opposed to the usual focus on 1-2 abilities.

Resilient: Wisdom is a great choice as a Fighter because it evens out an ability score and gives proficiency in the save, which synergizes nicely with Indomitable. I just reread your post and the loss of the half-feat status of Resilient makes it a sub-par choice.

If you are using point-buy and arrange your scores the way I suggested, you can, assuming you want to, have 16 Con and +2 at level 1. This leaves another +1 from the racial traits and a feat. Keep in mind that sometimes it's better to focus on the important saves (Dex, Con, and Wis) than equally spreading your scores out. If you choose to do so, that's fine, but it is not the optimal choice--there are exceptions, however.

Can you link the source for the nerf to Resilient, Lucky, and Tough? Or are these homebrew modifications? I own all of the sourcebooks and failed to find it. I did see why Resilient no longer has +1 (your DM's houserules), but don't see the modifications to Lucky or Resilient.

Honestly, I prefer to play 5e strictly by RAW/RAI as homebrew rules (not classes, as long as they are balanced) leave a bad taste in my mouth.

[Trandir]

If you are using point-buy and arrange your scores the way I suggested, you can, assuming you want to, have 16 Con and +2 at level 1.



Excuse Whaaaaaaat? I am confused what do you mean with +2 at lv 1? At lv 1 I can get at best 16 Con with human and anyway I can't thet to 18 at lv 1 since in the base game it's impossible.






This leaves another +1 from the racial traits and a feat. Keep in mind that sometimes it's better to focus on the important saves (Dex, Con, and Wis) than equally spreading your scores out. If you choose to do so, that's fine, but it is not the optimal choice--there are exceptions, however.



I will keep it in mind.




Can you link the source for the nerf to Resilient, Lucky, and Tough? Or are these homebrew modifications? I own all of the sourcebooks and failed to find it. I did see why Resilient no longer has +1 (your DM's houserules), but don't see the modifications to Lucky or Resilient.

Honestly, I prefer to play 5e strictly by RAW/RAI as homebrew rules (not classes, as long as they are balanced) leave a bad taste in my mouth.

My bad I forgot to say in advance that this DM heavly homebrew his campaign. Most changes are ok some are weird and all have to be playtested a lot to get to a point where they are balanced. Anyway here are the most notable houserules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?599773-What-to-play-with-quot-some-quot-houserules&p=24185087#post24185087) if you want to see them. And I would rather play in an homebrew free environment but this DM is organized and has files that cointain all the homebrew stuff he uses so there are no surprises at the table. Balance might be an issue but that's what playtest (and this campaing) are for right?


Also have you even read the OP before posting? I thought this and the little list that follows was clear enough

We will use some particular houserules so keep them in mind (this DM 3.Xfied 5e a little)

[Expected]

Excuse Whaaaaaaat? I am confused what do you mean with +2 at lv 1? At lv 1 I can get at best 16 Con with human and anyway I can't thet to 18 at lv 1 since in the base game it's impossible.

I am mistaken, I actually meant +3. With 27 point buy for a Variant Human you can get 16 in two scores by allocating 9 points each to the two scores and then applying the racial trait of +1 to two different ability scores which is 16 and a +3 modifier.

I did read your original post but obviously not as thoroughly as I should have--I apologize.

[Trandir]

I am mistaken, I actually meant +3. With 27 point buy for a Variant Human you can get 16 in two scores by allocating 9 points each to the two scores and then applying the racial trait of +1 to two different ability scores which is 16 and a +3 modifier.

I did read your original post but obviously not as thoroughly as I should have--I apologize.

Ooooooooh. I see now. I didn't got what you meant. Yes the main stats at 16 are a must but here is the intresting take: I can get away with investing in Con and Str 7 point in each leaving 13 points to do whatever I want.

Str 14+ 1(human)+ 1(HAM)
Dex 12
Con 14+ 1(human)+ 1(lv 2 ASI)
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 8
And at lv 6 I'd get two 18, at lv 10 a 20 and from 14 and beyond I can pump whatever stat I like.




I did read your original post but obviously not as thoroughly as I should have--I apologize.

And worry not it was a question out of curiosity rather than annoyance.
Have you seen the DM houserules the link works properly?

[Trandir]

I do not like to do this but tomorrow I will compile the character sheet.
Any last minute advice?