Getting a stat of 1 in 32 point buy

[daremetoidareyo]

I am working on a build that will one day be unleashed to popolar delight here on the board, but i need to get a stat of 1. And point buy limits you to a minimum of 8.

I'm focusing on constitution and charisma.

LA zero medium sized or larger humanoid options preferred for my uses, but i was thinking yall might be able to help.

Thanks in advance

[Silvercrys]

I can get you a small Humanoid with -6 Strength with Anthropomorphic Raven from Savage Species, final Strength of 2?

I'll keep looking but that's the best I have so far.

Edit: think I can get you to 0 actually :smallbiggrin:

Bakemono from Oriental Adventures have +0 LA and -8 Int. If you need exactly 1 you'll have to assign an Int of 9, obviously. They're still small size, though, and Int 1 is bad for characters for lots of reasons so I'll keep looking.

[Bronk]

I can get you a small Humanoid with -6 Strength with Anthropomorphic Raven from Savage Species, final Strength of 2?

I'll keep looking but that's the best I have so far.


It could also be middle aged for a further -1 to strength...



Edit: think I can get you to 0 actually :smallbiggrin:

Bakemono from Oriental Adventures have +0 LA and -8 Int. If you need exactly 1 you'll have to assign an Int of 9, obviously. They're still small size, though, and Int 1 is bad for characters for lots of reasons so I'll keep looking.

Ooo, being middle aged would fix that right up too with +1 to int...

[Elves]

Aging penalties for con makes it easy. Venerable elf, starting con of 9.

[Zaq]

What’s the order of operations for those flaws that reduce stats? I know they put a limit on how low you can go, but I forget if you can then stack further penalties (at chargen) after applying the flaws or if the flaws put a cap on the ending value after all character-based penalties.

[daremetoidareyo]

What’s the order of operations for those flaws that reduce stats? I know they put a limit on how low you can go, but I forget if you can then stack further penalties (at chargen) after applying the flaws or if the flaws put a cap on the ending value after all character-based penalties.

Pathetic
You are weaker in an attribute than you should be.

Effect
Reduce one of your ability scores by 2.

Special
You cannot take this flaw if the total of your ability modifiers is 8 or higher.


What does that special mean?

[JNAProductions]

Pathetic
You are weaker in an attribute than you should be.

Effect
Reduce one of your ability scores by 2.

Special
You cannot take this flaw if the total of your ability modifiers is 8 or higher.

What does that special mean?

If your ability modifiers, when added together, are 8 or higher, you cannot take this flaw.

So, if you had:

12
14
14
12
12
12

Your modifiers would be 1+2+2+1+1+1=8. You cannot take this flaw.

If you had, instead:

10
12
14
12
12
12

Your modifiers would be 0+1+2+1+1+1=6. You CAN take this flaw.

[daremetoidareyo]

If your ability modifiers, when added together, are 8 or higher, you cannot take this flaw.

So, if you had:

12
14
14
12
12
12

Your modifiers would be 1+2+2+1+1+1=8. You cannot take this flaw.

If you had, instead:

10
12
14
12
12
12

Your modifiers would be 0+1+2+1+1+1=6. You CAN take this flaw.

Sweet, then it looks like we're adding -5!

[Elves]

What does that special mean?
That they thought it would somehow be overpowered if you rolled really good stats that are better than you "need". I'm guessing.

[Celestia]

I can get you a small Humanoid with -6 Strength with Anthropomorphic Raven from Savage Species, final Strength of 2?

I'll keep looking but that's the best I have so far.

Edit: think I can get you to 0 actually :smallbiggrin:

Bakemono from Oriental Adventures have +0 LA and -8 Int. If you need exactly 1 you'll have to assign an Int of 9, obviously. They're still small size, though, and Int 1 is bad for characters for lots of reasons so I'll keep looking.
Intelligence is always a minimum of 3 for playable characters because less than that is animal intelligence and, therefore, unplayable.

[Zaq]

Sweet, then it looks like we're adding -5!

“Bonus equal to your modifier,” eh? Can’t wait to see it.

[Katie Boundary]

Playing a Kobold of the non-dragonwrought variety, and picking the oldest possible age category, will give you a net -7 to strength.

[Silvercrys]

Anthropomorphic Large Viper has 2 racial hit dice but no LA (so if you're using a prestige class with skill rank entry it ~should be okay), is a Medium Monstrous Humanoid with -8 Strength, -4 Con, and -4 Cha (+8 Dex +4 Wis, as well).

Kind of curious what this is about, but yeah a Venerable Elf seems to be the easiest LA+0 way to get 1 Con (I can't think of any way to get 1 Cha, unfortunately, lowest penalty I've been able to find is -6 on a tiny creature, the Jermlaine from Monster Manual II).

[Quertus]

It could also be middle aged for a further -1 to strength...



Ooo, being middle aged would fix that right up too with +1 to int...

I'm just picturing this inversion: you were comatose, had to be spoon fed, etc, until you got old; then, you began feeding yourself.


Aging penalties for con makes it easy. Venerable elf, starting con of 9.

Yeah, that's the easy way.

[ShurikVch]

Arctic racial variant (Dragon #306) gives +2 Con/-2 Cha

Proto-Creature template (Bestiary Of Krynn, Revised) gives -2 Int and -4 Cha

Also, can't you just subtract from those 8 until you just have 1 (getting extra points in process)?

[daremetoidareyo]

Arctic racial variant (Dragon #306) gives +2 Con/-2 Cha

Proto-Creature template (Bestiary Of Krynn, Revised) gives -2 Int and -4 Cha

Also, can't you just subtract from those 8 until you just have 1 (getting extra points in process)?

Not according to the DMG and the boards here are pretty RAW adamant

[Silvercrys]

Bestiary of Krynn is technically 3rd party, I think, and anything in TO land best avoids Dragon Mag content, though it's allowed in the various optimization contests. Arctic Anthropomorphic Large Viper gets you a -6 Cha, then, which isn't quite 1. Still Monstrous Humanoid though.

Arctic Jermlaine would have a -8 Cha, I think? but you'd be Tiny and a Fey, not Humanoid. Think your speed is pretty high for a Tiny creature though.

[daremetoidareyo]

found it. Incarnate construct (dustform critter): sets Cha to 3.

[FauxKnee]

Arctic Jermlaine would have a -8 Cha, I think? but you'd be Tiny and a Fey, not Humanoid.

Dustform Creature (Sandstorm) + Incarnate Construct (Savage Species) would fix your type back to Humanoid, but if this is for a contest you're out of luck. (Most contests disallow LA even if it cancels out to zero, like this does.)

[Silvercrys]

The Incarnate Construct template: doing silly things since 2004.

So, an Arctic Incarnate Construct Dustform Human has exactly 1 Charisma, though I think Arctic is an inherited template and Incarnate Construct is acquired so stacking them is a bit, uhm. Interesting.

Suppose if Incarnate Construct doesn't forbid them from being fertile you could have the child of an Arctic Human and an Incarnate Construct Dustform Human for the build, though most DMs would probably say the child is just an Arctic Human, heh.

[daremetoidareyo]

Here is what i discarded from my negative modifier hunt. Just can't figure out how to use it.

Monks get pre-requisite free bonus feats, the martial arts variant styles rules say that you can choose any feat if you abandon your path, so you can take any feat at level 2, if you squint and work on your backstory.

Death devotion at level 1 gives you a su energy drain.

Level 2 take life drain from libris mortis using the monk trick above. If you have a negative modifier, well then you would add -5 to the hp you drain. Thereby lowering their level but leaving them at the same HP.

Generous sacrifice will allow you to give those negative levels to willing allies.

If we can find a way to subvert the the prerequisites on improved energy drain, then the +1s to all rolls would be a neat way to use this.

Any other ideas on that weird little rules eddy? can negative levels be used for another benefit?

[Mr Adventurer]

Playing a Kobold of the non-dragonwrought variety, and picking the oldest possible age category, will give you a net -7 to strength.

-10 to Strength.

[Thurbane]

I don't believe anyone has mentioned the following Vile feats:


Deformity (Gaunt) +2 bonus to Dex, -2 Penalty to Con.
Deformity (Obese) +2 bonus to Con, -2 penalty to Dex.
Deformity (Madness) -4 penalty to Wis.

[RatElemental]

Couldn't you just take the pathetic flaw multiple times until all your scores were where you wanted them?

[Thurbane]

Couldn't you just take the pathetic flaw multiple times until all your scores were where you wanted them?

Flaws are an option rule, but the standard option is to limit a character to 2 flaws only.


A player may select up to two flaws when creating a character. After 1st level, a character cannot take on additional flaws unless the game master specifically allows it (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm)

[ThanatosZero]

That reminds me of the point buy system from Icewind Dale 2.
Before adding and substracting numbers, you get 16 points and 10 in each stat.

However unlike our point buy in PnP, everything costs 1 point and you can substract to a minimum of 3 points in the stats of your choice.

16 point buy

Tiefling (Rogue)

Str: 10 -> 18
Dex: 10 -> 18 -> 20
Con: 10 -> 18
Int: 10 -> 18 -> 20
Wis: 10 -> 3
Cha: 10 -> 3 -> 1

With racial bonus and penalities, you can get as low as 1.

A ork barbarian can get both his intelligence and Charisma down to 1 for to become a obidient and loyal dog, who will get the job done in combat.

Str: 20
Dex: 16
Con: 18
Int: 1
Wis: 18
Cha: 1

[Oberron]

So what's the point for all this?

[Silvercrys]

Here is what i discarded from my negative modifier hunt. Just can't figure out how to use it.

Monks get pre-requisite free bonus feats, the martial arts variant styles rules say that you can choose any feat if you abandon your path, so you can take any feat at level 2, if you squint and work on your backstory.

Death devotion at level 1 gives you a su energy drain.

Level 2 take life drain from libris mortis using the monk trick above. If you have a negative modifier, well then you would add -5 to the hp you drain. Thereby lowering their level but leaving them at the same HP.

Generous sacrifice will allow you to give those negative levels to willing allies.

If we can find a way to subvert the the prerequisites on improved energy drain, then the +1s to all rolls would be a neat way to use this.

Any other ideas on that weird little rules eddy? can negative levels be used for another benefit?

Think this was the point, but yeah I don't have anything to build off of it

[ThanatosZero]

So what's the point for all this?

He wishes for to min-max his PC's stats, to create a popular type of character creation.


If his GM allows Point Buy as in Icewind Dale 2, with the same mechanic as presented, he could gain the character he desires.

I will take an Aasimar with IWD2 point buy mechanics (16 points) for an sorcerer.

Str: 10 -> 3 (-4)
Dex: 10 -> 18 (+4)
Con: 10 -> 18 (+4)
Int: 10 -> 16 (+3)
Wis: 10 -> 3 -> 5 (-3)
Cha: 10 -> 18 -> 20 (+5)

For a paladin...

Str: 10 -> 13 (+3)
Dex: 10 -> 12 (+1)
Con: 10 -> 18 (+4)
Int: 10 -> 3 (-4)
Wis: 10 -> 12 -> 14 (+2)
Cha: 10 -> 18 -> 20 (+5)

[daremetoidareyo]

So what's the point for all this?

The word modifier is sometimes used in rules text, where what the game designer intended the game ability to do was use a bonus.

Modifier and bonus are game defined terms. A bonus is inherently positive, but a modifier can be positive or negative.

Usually, but not always, the designers put a minimum on an ability that uses an ability modifier (ability lasts dex modifier minimum 1 round, for example)

Look at cunning surge for factotum to understand. You add you int modifier as a bonus to a roll. So if you have a 3 intelligence, you can argue that RAW you add that -4 modifier as a bonus to a roll.

Anyway, I found an ability that uses un-minimummed modifier text that is on a prestige class likely to be used in a future iron chef, and I was struggling to do it with point buy. So I asked for help

[ShurikVch]

Corruption rules from Heroes of Horror: Moderate Corruption (Bones Thicken) gives +2 Str/-4 Dex, and Severe Corruption - -2 Con (Internal Corruption), -1 Str/Dex/Con (Lungs Eaten Away), -2 Cha (Nose Rots), -2 Dex (Spine Twists), and -2 Str (Wrigglers).