Feeling under-appreciated as the party wizard.

[ferrit]

Our party is currently Level 6. We consist of a Druid, Profane Soul Blood Hunter, Draconic Sorcerer and Divination Wizard (me). We're all Human and it's our first D&D campaign.

My first character (a Fighter) died around Level 4. We've been pretty rubbish at exploring properly throughout the campaign, so my replacement character concept was a self-styled private investigator. Used to work for the city watch; paranoid but sharp. He's got 18 INT, 16 WIS and both the Observant and Keen Mind feats. Passive perception, investigation and insight skills are through the roof. Truckloads of utility spells and abilities.

When the party explores dungeons, despite being the squishy wizard with 22hp, he's the guy 30ft in front of the party scouting the way forward because he's the only one who can see in the dark (I bought Googles of Night and took the Light cantrip nobody else bothered to take). He's furiously burning spell slots on Counterspell when we're up against enemy mages to prevent the Druid getting burnt to a crisp. He's performing interrogations and getting valuable information using Suggestion, Detect Thoughts and divination Portents while the Sorcerer fumbles with persuasion rolls. He's determinedly trying to ensure enemies surrounding us have non-stop disadvantage on attacks and saves using area control spells like Fog Cloud, Grease or Web. He's ensuring we know exactly what lies behind that door before opening it, or that the macguffin we found is safe to pick up. And so on, and so forth.

But, despite all that, it often feels like the rest of the party don't think I actually do anything.
Because it was the Sorcerer, not me, who empower-fireballed the entire Goblin warband threatening the village into dust. Or because it was the Druid, not me, who cast the healing spell that stopped somebody dying in the middle of an encounter. Or because it was the Blood Hunter, not me, who sliced the beastly monster into two pieces in a single round with his Greatsword. I'm the boring, annoying guy at the back moaning that we should "probably check that room first".

It's becoming a little frustrating. While I'm adjusting my darkvision goggles and struggling to finance expanding my spellbook beyond the bare minimum, the Sorcerer has his Wand of Magic Missiles, Staff of Defense, and Pearl of Power.

I feel a little under-appreciated at best and sometimes ignored at worst. We've just levelled up to Level 6 and I'm scrolling through which two spells to add (Fly and Haste seem good) but I'm almost wondering what the point is, or if they'll even notice.

What can I do?

[Anymage]

Unfortunately, the players who keep thinking "I have a great idea, how do I make a character who's totally inept at combat" won't see this post.

And welcome to being a support/utility character. You can make some minor changes to your tactics (e.g: nothing keeps you from casting Light on something the blood hunter is wearing so he can take point), but support characters don't get the glory plays by definition. If you're okay with that, embrace your role. If you aren't, reroll as someone with bigger and flashier effects. That's really all there is to it.

[Expected]

It's not suggested because it can disrupt the fun of other players, but if you truly want them to appreciate you, they need to experience what it's like being blind and unprepared. A way to do this without directly disrupting the table is to miss one session when you are dungeon delving (make sure the DM is aware of what you are doing so they don't turn you into a walking flashlight for the party). Make some excuse for your character to not be there (e.g. they were separated from the group because of a trapdoor/cave-in/rotating wall etc.). Your absence will be felt and they will appreciate you more.

People, even outside of D&D, tend to take things for granted. It's only when we lose what we don't deem valuable, do we realize how much it really helped us or how much we wanted it.

[Kane0]

Do you often voice why you are casting these spells and what the expected benefit will be?

[Waazraath]

Our party is currently Level 6. We consist of a Druid, Profane Soul Blood Hunter, Draconic Sorcerer and Divination Wizard (me). We're all Human and it's our first D&D campaign.

My first character (a Fighter) died around Level 4. We've been pretty rubbish at exploring properly throughout the campaign, so my replacement character concept was a self-styled private investigator. Used to work for the city watch; paranoid but sharp. He's got 18 INT, 16 WIS and both the Observant and Keen Mind feats. Passive perception, investigation and insight skills are through the roof. Truckloads of utility spells and abilities.

When the party explores dungeons, despite being the squishy wizard with 22hp, he's the guy 30ft in front of the party scouting the way forward because he's the only one who can see in the dark (I bought Googles of Night and took the Light cantrip nobody else bothered to take). He's furiously burning spell slots on Counterspell when we're up against enemy mages to prevent the Druid getting burnt to a crisp. He's performing interrogations and getting valuable information using Suggestion, Detect Thoughts and divination Portents while the Sorcerer fumbles with persuasion rolls. He's determinedly trying to ensure enemies surrounding us have non-stop disadvantage on attacks and saves using area control spells like Fog Cloud, Grease or Web. He's ensuring we know exactly what lies behind that door before opening it, or that the macguffin we found is safe to pick up. And so on, and so forth.

But, despite all that, it often feels like the rest of the party don't think I actually do anything.
Because it was the Sorcerer, not me, who empower-fireballed the entire Goblin warband threatening the village into dust. Or because it was the Druid, not me, who cast the healing spell that stopped somebody dying in the middle of an encounter. Or because it was the Blood Hunter, not me, who sliced the beastly monster into two pieces in a single round with his Greatsword. I'm the boring, annoying guy at the back moaning that we should "probably check that room first".

It's becoming a little frustrating. While I'm adjusting my darkvision goggles and struggling to finance expanding my spellbook beyond the bare minimum, the Sorcerer has his Wand of Magic Missiles, Staff of Defense, and Pearl of Power.

I feel a little under-appreciated at best and sometimes ignored at worst. We've just levelled up to Level 6 and I'm scrolling through which two spells to add (Fly and Haste seem good) but I'm almost wondering what the point is, or if they'll even notice.

What can I do?


Some semi-random observations:
- You chose a support / utility role; that means you didn't choose to be the big damage dealer that one shots a boss monster. That's part of your choice.
- your talbe doesn't seem to appreciate the controller role. Even with all of you being new players: countering a spell from the boss wizard, or giving disadvantage to a buch of enemies are effects that are really easy to perceive ('the evil wizard wasted his turn ; 7 goblin archers shoot at Bob the Fighter, 6 of them miss). You could claim credit for those events, as they happen, but for people with some experience in games it should be a bit obvious as well.
- you seem to make choices from a party optimization perspective (light, goggles, your feats) while others are increasing personal power (also with the chosen items you mention). Commendable of you, but:
- are these the best choices you could make? For example, goggles are imo never worth it in a party where nobody else has darkvision. Darkvision is cool when everybody has it, so you can party-sneak cause you don't need a light. But as only 1 player: meh. You need light anyway.


Of course from where I'm sitting it's impossible to see the mechanics at your table. Maybe there is some overlap in what your controll wizard is doing with other characters? In the end, it doesn't really matter if the lots of you gain relevant information through your spells, because of the druid turning into a rat and going out to scout, or the charismatic character persuading somebody to give info. It doesn't matter if the battle is won through careful positioning and batllefield control, or though 4 fighters hacking themselfs through all opposition in 2 rounds time. There are many ways to Rome, and a control wizard is one of them. If you don't have fun with it cause the rest of the table doesn't value it much (or cause in the end, you would rather have that character that 1 shots boss monsters), and you can't show its value to the table (whatever the reason), I'd just roll something else.

[ad_hoc]

Portent.

Roll high? Make an ally succeed their saving throw. Often even just a medium roll will work here since you will know the DC and the ally's bonuses.

Roll low? Make an enemy fail on their save against an ally's effect. A medium roll could work here too if you can guess at a monster's stats.

Medium rolls are great for making an ally's attack roll or ability check succeed too.

[ferrit]

Portent.

Roll high? Make an ally succeed their saving throw. Often even just a medium roll will work here since you will know the DC and the ally's bonuses.

Roll low? Make an enemy fail on their save against an ally's effect. A medium roll could work here too if you can guess at a monster's stats.

Medium rolls are great for making an ally's attack roll or ability check succeed too.

So, you bring up a good point, in using Portents more visibly on ally turns instead of my own spells/turns. This is a very effective, in-your-face way of demonstrating how useful you are. But it's been commented on before when I've done this that I was robbing that player of their own agency. Suddenly I'm almost controlling their character for them and they don't feel that "they" did whatever it was I used my portent roll for.

[Eldariel]

This is very typical with newbies. Sadly it takes some experience and acumen to see beyond the big damage numbers. I'm sure everyone was like this at some point. Sadly there's little in terms of means of showing the others how useful you're really being; they'll kinda need to gain experience themselves. Trying to explain them would come across as arrogant and probably be contraproductive. You can try to vocalize what you're doing and why; that might or might not work. In the long run though, the players need to come through for themselves and in the meanwhile you'll probably be left feeling underappreciated. You can take solace in knowing your importance yourself and the fact that you're more likely a player with better understanding at this point.

[Sigreid]

I'd play a session as a striker. Let them see what they give up when you do that without not contributing to the group.

[Chaos Jackal]

Frankly, there's not much to do in such scenarios. From RPGs to MOBAs, support players are often ignored. People are attracted to the bright and flashy, and supports are neither. It's often a thankless job.

You can point out how things tended to explode before you joined, or how messy situations turned out to be, or how tough or even impossible certain tasks were.

But the sad truth is, if you weren't the one who hurled the fireball, or critted the smite, or dropped two Healing Words at clutch moments, there's a very significant percentage of people who will never notice. A support generally won't save the day very often, neither will he appear heroic. He might be doing more than anyone else by making performance better at all times, but precisely because the benefits are on most of the time people take them for granted.

In your case, another thing you can do is try to add that flash to your own shenanigans. Use Portent to hit with powerful single-target debuffs. Turn half the enemy team into a useless mob via Hypnotic Pattern or Fear. Add flair to your declarations as you Counterspell the blast about to blow your party to smithereens. But honestly, if turning the deadly failed save in a successful one is treated with indifference and counterspelling (which makes for really awesome moments) is passed over, then I'm not sure if these will do much.

Aside from these, the only other thing to do is learn to accept it. Being the unsung hero is basically the life of a good support player. If you end up feeling disappointed all the time (which is very natural), then it's probably not for you, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[ferrit]

Some semi-random observations:
- You chose a support / utility role; that means you didn't choose to be the big damage dealer that one shots a boss monster. That's part of your choice.
You're right, that's on me. But truth be told I'm really enjoying the role my character is playing. Scouting, exploring, the subtle manipulation, the various ways of detecting or finding stuff, the "How about no, actually?" use of portents in clutch moment. That's fun! What isn't fun is the nagging feeling that the rest of the party thinks I'm utterly pointless. I'm struggling with finding some kind of middle-ground.


- your talbe doesn't seem to appreciate the controller role. Even with all of you being new players: countering a spell from the boss wizard, or giving disadvantage to a buch of enemies are effects that are really easy to perceive ('the evil wizard wasted his turn ; 7 goblin archers shoot at Bob the Fighter, 6 of them miss). You could claim credit for those events, as they happen, but for people with some experience in games it should be a bit obvious as well.
I think it's a matter of perception. If arrows fired by seven goblin archers completely miss Bob the Fighter, then Bob will probably think "Haha goblins sure are stupid!" or "Goddamn, I'm feeling lucky tonight!". Not necessarily "Wow that fog cloud sure was useful, who made that appear?". Could probably be better at claiming credit for this, but this has the downside of making it sound like their "heroic moment" wasn't really down to them at all.


- you seem to make choices from a party optimization perspective (light, goggles, your feats) while others are increasing personal power (also with the chosen items you mention). Commendable of you, but:
- are these the best choices you could make? For example, goggles are imo never worth it in a party where nobody else has darkvision. Darkvision is cool when everybody has it, so you can party-sneak cause you don't need a light. But as only 1 player: meh. You need light anyway.
You're right, but also wrong. No, the darkvision goggles probably weren't the best choice I could have made. But buying them from the merchant made me "the guy who can see in the dark". Suddenly I'm useful in a very obvious (but admittedly minor) way, carving out a little niche and role for my character that plays into both the concept and background. It's not much but it's better than nothing.

Thanks for your thoughts, though. Stuff to bear in mind.

[Waazraath]

You're right, that's on me. But truth be told I'm really enjoying the role my character is playing. Scouting, exploring, the subtle manipulation, the various ways of detecting or finding stuff, the "How about no, actually?" use of portents in clutch moment. That's fun! What isn't fun is the nagging feeling that the rest of the party thinks I'm utterly pointless. I'm struggling with finding some kind of middle-ground.


I think it's a matter of perception. If arrows fired by seven goblin archers completely miss Bob the Fighter, then Bob will probably think "Haha goblins sure are stupid!" or "Goddamn, I'm feeling lucky tonight!". Not necessarily "Wow that fog cloud sure was useful, who made that appear?". Could probably be better at claiming credit for this, but this has the downside of making it sound like their "heroic moment" wasn't really down to them at all.


You're right, but also wrong. No, the darkvision goggles probably weren't the best choice I could have made. But buying them from the merchant made me "the guy who can see in the dark". Suddenly I'm useful in a very obvious (but admittedly minor) way, carving out a little niche and role for my character that plays into both the concept and background. It's not much but it's better than nothing.

Thanks for your thoughts, though. Stuff to bear in mind.

You're welcome. Based on this, I'd continue doing what you like, but show more the benefits of what you are doing. Claim credits where credits are due. Or, don't know if you have a bunch of non-controll (direct damage) spells, but if yes what you can do is only using those in a few combats. That should show the value of control spells.

[darknite]

Just play your character and have fun. You are under no obligation to have others overjoyed by your PC's actions or choices, other than the standard application of Wheaton's Law.

[ad_hoc]

So, you bring up a good point, in using Portents more visibly on ally turns instead of my own spells/turns. This is a very effective, in-your-face way of demonstrating how useful you are. But it's been commented on before when I've done this that I was robbing that player of their own agency. Suddenly I'm almost controlling their character for them and they don't feel that "they" did whatever it was I used my portent roll for.

Sounds like you've got some out of game interpersonal issues going on there.

Everyone should have an attitude of trying to make the game fun for everyone else.

It's starting to sound like everyone just wants to do their own thing and fight over the spotlight.

At our table we would all cheer if a player were to make an enemy lose their save. If it was a particularly pivotal moment there might even be some high fives.

One thing that can contribute to that attitude is not having engagement in the game through lack of challenge. If it doesn't matter what you do because you're going to succeed anyway then a natural reaction is to start competing with the other players instead.

[Keravath]

One thing to consider ... depending on who you ask you are playing the wizard EXACTLY how a wizard should be played. They make the game easier for all and sometimes no one notices :)

Here is a link to a wizard guide that is quite popular (by Treantmonk).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IeOXWvbkmQ3nEyM2P3lS8TU4rsK6QJP0oH7HE_v67QY/edit

The intro describes your situation perfectly :)

"A couple months of playing and my character did not directly cause a single HP of damage to an enemy, nor did he use a single “save or die”. The campaign completed, and since my wizard was introduced, not a single character had died.

What I found really surprising is that everyone in the group still considered my character “useless”. Not a single player seemed to notice that my character had been introduced at the same time that the party death-toll had stopped. They had thought the campaign had become “easier” during the second half.

This was something I found absolutely terrific and I was inspired to write my first Wizard guide"


So, I would suggest two things ... keep playing the way you are making encounters easier for everyone else (and with your group I think you need it since the mix of classes seems pretty squishy). The other thing to do is to make sure you have the fireball spell on your list as well for those occasions when you do want to do some damage instead of debuffing the opponents. It is fun from time to time and sometimes just doing damage is the best debuff available. It isn't mandatory but it might help you feel better if you don't always want to be the behind the scenes controller (by the way, hypnotic pattern can be an amazing control spell in the right circumstances).

[Corran]

Try to enjoy what you are playing without looking for confirmation from the other people at the table. Now, that might be easier said than done, but if it is not working, then perhaps this style of play isn't for you. Don't ignore that possibility. Personally, when playing a wizard, all these stuff that you are describing (generally stuff along the lines of out of combat utility) is the reason I like playing a caster. Combat is the boring part by comparison. And that's actually a choice (aka spell selection) that is working for me, but it may not necessarily work for others. If you like something enough, then most likely you will still like it even if no one else around you does. So try to look a little less for appreciation just in case this is the problem, though more importantly give your actual preferences (as opposed to what sounds good as an idea) a second thought.

Now, there could be the reality of playing in a group that is not utilizing at all your strengths. If that was the case, I could see how that could be a problem. But from what I am reading in the op, that's not the case.

I will guess something. Maybe you are not satisfied with how your detective playstyle is working out. It's hard to fit this element in a dnd game. I have four characters ready atm, from which I'll most likely pick my next character when that time comes. One of them is a gnome diviner detective, inspired heavily by the detective Monk character. Now, of all 4 characters, this is the least likely I am going to pick. And that's because I am very afraid of the possibility that being a detective will be that sort of thing that will fade away as the campaign will progress. I have boiled it down to this: When it's time to consider bringing this character to life, I'll ask everyone to buy in. First of all from the DM. Will we have adventures that will feature mystery and clue finding at some level? And secondly from the players. They have to help with this idea. Maybe the group is operating a detective agency, ie taking jobs which will translate to classic adventuring but with some sort of investigation prologue. They don't have to be all detectives, someone could be the muscle, another could be the one negotiating with clients about jobs and doing the pr, etc. And if there is more than one detective, they could go with different styles. For example one is the ex (perhaps dirty) cop cliché that still has connections on the streets and who can do the persuading/intimidating stuff. The other could be more of a Poirot, so the one having the biggest part of finding the clues and piecing them together. Etc. And then you have to work out with the DM how this will play out (ie clue finding clues and stuff). It's a lot of work. And imo it really needs to be a collaborative effort to be something I would enjoy playing. Otherwise, as I said, it will probably be something a lot less impactful for what I'd want for a character whose whole concept would be that. And if that's the case, I'd much rather go with a cliché like seeking knowledge and/or power, than prepare for something that would leave me disappointed.

Edit: Talk with your DM about in character rewards, such as gold and magic items. It is entirely possible that the DM would like to give everyone about the same amount of loot/items (instead of randomizing it), but they have not payed much attention. It's not necessarily favoritism. Dm's have a lot to handle, and they forget. So, you know, ask about this if it's bugging you.

[Keravath]

So, you bring up a good point, in using Portents more visibly on ally turns instead of my own spells/turns. This is a very effective, in-your-face way of demonstrating how useful you are. But it's been commented on before when I've done this that I was robbing that player of their own agency. Suddenly I'm almost controlling their character for them and they don't feel that "they" did whatever it was I used my portent roll for.

Then you need to explain to them what "portent" rolls represent in game terms. You are a divination wizard, you get glimpses of the future. All the portent rolls represent are your character seeing the events they forsaw coming true. If the player feels like you are stealing their "agency" then simply ask them before using it.

e.g. The enemy casts disintegrate, would you like me to use portent to make sure you save? Player says no, rolls and is instantly dead ... oh well, that is on them.

Also, D&D is a team effort, the group and party work together to attain objectives. Your use of portents is simply aiding the party to attain those goals by having the opponents or having a team mate succeed. Perhaps it is because you are all newer players that they don't seem to understand the concept of the characters in a party working together towards a common goal.

[ferrit]

Sounds like you've got some out of game interpersonal issues going on there. Everyone should have an attitude of trying to make the game fun for everyone else. It's starting to sound like everyone just wants to do their own thing and fight over the spotlight.

At our table we would all cheer if a player were to make an enemy lose their save. If it was a particularly pivotal moment there might even be some high fives.

One thing that can contribute to that attitude is not having engagement in the game through lack of challenge. If it doesn't matter what you do because you're going to succeed anyway then a natural reaction is to start competing with the other players instead.
Fair observations! We're not only newbies at this but we're also playing on Roll20 instead of together at a table. We've all been best friends for fifteen years and it was our way of keeping in regular contact now that we are adults with families in different parts of the world.

It's possible this distance makes the experience less "personal" and thus contributes into a bit of disconnect. Or maybe it will just come with experience playing. I'm drawn to your last point about difficulty though! Might suggest ramping up the challenge a little with our DM, who is the only experienced one in the group.


One thing to consider ... depending on who you ask you are playing the wizard EXACTLY how a wizard should be played. They make the game easier for all and sometimes no one notices :)

Here is a link to a wizard guide that is quite popular (by Treantmonk).
Haha, this was the guide that made me want to attempt a Wizard in the first place!


Now, there could be the reality of playing in a group that is not utilizing at all your strengths. If that was the case, I could see how that could be a problem. But from what I am reading in the op, that's not the case.

I will guess something. Maybe you are not satisfied with how your detective playstyle is working out. It's hard to fit this element in a dnd game. I have four characters ready atm, from which I'll most likely pick my next character when that time comes. One of them is a gnome diviner detective, inspired heavily by the detective Monk character. Now, of all 4 characters, this is the least likely I am going to pick. And that's because I am very afraid of the possibility that being a detective will be that sort of thing that will fade away as the campaign will progress. I have boiled it down to this: When it's time to consider bringing this character to life, I'll ask everyone to buy in. First of all from the DM. Will we have adventures that will feature mystery and clue finding at some level? And secondly from the players. They have to help with this idea. Maybe the group is operating a detective agency, ie taking jobs which will translate to classic adventuring but with some sort of investigation prologue. They don't have to be all detectives, someone could be the muscle, another could be the one negotiating with clients about jobs and doing the pr, etc. And if there is more than one detective, they could go with different styles. For example one is the ex (perhaps dirty) cop cliché that still has connections on the streets and who can do the persuading/intimidating stuff. The other could be more of a Poirot, so the one having the biggest part of finding the clues and piecing them together. Etc. And then you have to work out with the DM how this will play out (ie clue finding clues and stuff). It's a lot of work. And imo it really needs to be a collaborative effort to be something I would enjoy playing. Otherwise, as I said, it will probably be something a lot less impactful for what I'd want for a character whose whole concept would be that. And if that's the case, I'd much rather go with a cliché like seeking knowledge and/or power, than prepare for something that would leave me disappointed.
Well that's the thing! Our DM used the introduction of my detective character as the hook to draw the party into his campaign story, which started as a murder mystery type thing. There's been loads of great opportunities to "play detective".


Perhaps it is because you are all newer players that they don't seem to understand the concept of the characters in a party working together towards a common goal.
Perhaps, but it's likely I'm just expecting too much. There was a reply above about this possibly being a symptom of there not being enough meaningful challenge to force us into working together, and there might be something in that.

[sophontteks]

In my experience no one appreciates how mechanically effective a character is, that's more a personal achievement. People appreciate it when you make the experience more enjoyable.

Maybe you can have some fun roleplaying how underappreciated your character actually feels, talk to the DM about this, not just as a concern, but as a plot point as well.

You aren't an underappreciated player, you are a player roleplaying an ubderappreciated wizard. Think like the robot from Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. Your friends will appreciate you for your characters frequent negative quips about being useless.

[ferrit]

In my experience no one appreciates how mechanically effective a character is, that's more a personal achievement. People appreciate it when you make the experience more enjoyable.

Maybe you can have some fun roleplaying how underappreciated your character actually feels, talk to the DM about this, not just as a concern, but as a plot point as well.

You aren't an underappreciated player, you are a player roleplaying an ubderappreciated wizard. Think like the robot from Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. Your friends will appreciate you for your characters frequent negative quips about being useless.
Oooh. That's an interesting solution. Made me think about Xan, the sarcastic and snide enchanter, from Baldur's Gate. My character has 8 CHA so that could be developed as a personality quirk manifesting after months spent trudging around in the dirty with these lot.

"Right, yes, of course. That lich was a total pushover. Didn't have anything to do with the two Lightning Bolts that somebody counterspelled, because why would it? Sigh, mumble I should have stayed at the academy mumble."

That kind of thing?

[Randomthom]

Without googling, name the 4 members of Queen.

Freddie Mercury
Brian May
Roger Taylor
John Deacon

Confession, I couldn't remember the last one of those, I had to look up John Deacon (sorry John).

With other bands, it is even more pronounced. Hell, some bands even name the front-man separately (Sting & the Police, Bruce Springsteen and the E-street band etc.)

Support roles are thankless. Believe me, I'm an IT Systems Administrator and a volunteer sound engineer...

There's 2 ways to go from here, accept your role and take quiet personal satisfaction from knowing that you are the grease that makes the wheels turn or throw in the towel, pick up the microphone and tight sequin leotard and strut your stuff...

Honestly though, the other players will come to appreciate you more over time as they mature as players. We all see the big damage & the fistful of dice as glorious to begin with! My advice would be to pick yourself a big damage spell for when you feel the need for some love (equivalent of a John Deacon Bass-centric-song, Another One Bites the Dust anyone?) but otherwise carry on doing what you're doing and be satisfied with it :)

[ad_hoc]

Oooh. That's an interesting solution. Made me think about Xan, the sarcastic and snide enchanter, from Baldur's Gate. My character has 8 CHA so that could be developed as a personality quirk manifesting after months spent trudging around in the dirty with these lot.

"Right, yes, of course. That lich was a total pushover. Didn't have anything to do with the two Lightning Bolts that somebody counterspelled, because why would it? Sigh, mumble I should have stayed at the academy mumble."

That kind of thing?

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