Player wants to modify a spell - thoughts?

[Nefariis]

This would substitute Good Berries.

(Spell Paraphrased)

Spell: Good Mushies
Casting Time/Range/Duration/Components: Same
Classes: Druid

At first level: Everything Same but with mushies instead of berries.

If cast using second level: The mushies will restore 2hp per mushie and provide advantage on insight checks for one hour. Mushies last for 48 hours. Only 10 mushies can exist at a time.


I thought 10 hours of insight checks seemed a little much, but then he reminded me that he can cast infinite guidance checks for free. My only other thought was maybe to change the 48 hours to 24 hours - but that's really probably not game breaking either.

I think the point is - he loves the idea of the party walking into a bar gathering information, on mushies, and completely understand the entire workings of the world around them (which is hilarious).

What are your guy's thoughts?

[Bobthewizard]

As is, his second level spell should be a 4th or 5th level spell. It's really powerful in a social heavy campaign. Guidance is limited to one person at a time and uses concentration. This could apply to the whole party and would stack with guidance. As the DM, it would be hard to have any NPC pass a deception check against this party.

If you want to allow it, I would recommend using a 3rd level slot and making the berries only be good for one hour, possibly using concentration. Still pretty powerful, but can't be cast with left over slots the day before, uses a more valuable resource, and has to be cast with an encounter in mind instead of just carrying them around all day at no cost.

[JackPhoenix]

No. Goodberry is already a good spell. This one is straight up better in every respect except the maximum limit. They heal more, they last longer (which is pretty much irrelevant, but still), they have additional effect.

And Guidance is not a valid argument, you can stack Guidance and advantage.

[strangebloke]

This would substitute Good Berries.

(Spell Paraphrased)

Spell: Good Mushies
Casting Time/Range/Duration/Components: Same
Classes: Druid

At first level: Everything Same but with mushies instead of berries.

If cast using second level: The mushies will restore 2hp per mushie and provide advantage on insight checks for one hour. Mushies last for 48 hours. Only 10 mushies can exist at a time.


I thought 10 hours of insight checks seemed a little much, but then he reminded me that he can cast infinite guidance checks for free. My only other thought was maybe to change the 48 hours to 24 hours - but that's really probably not game breaking either.

I think the point is - he loves the idea of the party walking into a bar gathering information, on mushies, and completely understand the entire workings of the world around them (which is hilarious).

What are your guy's thoughts?
Nah. Its way too strong. You get ten potions of "enhance ability" that also each heal 2 hp? good grief. Sure, he already gets to cast guidance, but that actually just makes this worse. He can cast guidance and eat a mushy.

My advice:

"Magic Brownie"
2nd level spell
ritual
components VSM (50 GP of 'rare herbs' which are consumed on use.)

You create 1 magic brownie. A brownie can be consumed as an action. Upon consumption, roll a 1d4 and give an effect based on the result as shown below:

you are poisoned for 1 hour.
you are affected by the "see invisibility" spell for 1 hour
You gain advantage on wisdom(insight) checks for 1 hour
You gain advantage on wisdom(perception) checks for 1 hour.


If you increase the amount of material components used in this spell you can create as many as 5 brownies in a single casting. The Brownies lose potency one hour after the spell is cast.
---
This spell is still overpowered, as far as I'm concerned. But its more balanced and also more fun.

[Garfunion]

Why give it a duration of 48 hours instead of 24 like goodberry? Why just insight check and the potential permanent status affect of it?

Alternative idea

Skillberry
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a sprig of mistletoe)

Duration: Instantaneous

Up to ten berries appear in your hand and are infused with magic for the duration. A creature can use its action to eat one berry. Eating a berry restores 1 hit point. Additionally, for the next hour the berry provides advantage to one ability check(skill check) the creature makes, ending this spell.

The berries lose their potency if they have not been consumed within 24 hours of the casting of this spell.

[JackPhoenix]

"Magic Brownie"
2nd level spell
ritual
components VSM (50 GP of 'rare herbs' which are consumed on use.)

You create 1 magic brownie. A brownie can be consumed as an action. Upon consumption, roll a 1d4 and give an effect based on the result as shown below:

you are poisoned for 1 hour.
you are affected by the "see invisibility" spell for 1 hour
You gain advantage on wisdom(insight) checks for 1 hour
You gain advantage on wisdom(perception) checks for 1 hour.


If you increase the amount of material components used in this spell you can create as many as 5 brownies in a single casting. The Brownies lose potency one hour after the spell is cast.
---
This spell is still overpowered, as far as I'm concerned. But its more balanced and also more fun.

Disadvantage from poisoned condition and advantage on ability checks negate each other. In the end, this is just See Invisibility, except much worse.

[strangebloke]

Disadvantage from poisoned condition and advantage on ability checks negate each other. In the end, this is just See Invisibility, except much worse.

you roll a 1d4 and get one of the effects. Some people have a bad trip, others get good effects.

Also its a ritual, so it doesn't use a spell slot and you can use it on other people, but it uses up 50 gp per person.

50 GP for a second level spell that might backfire seems about fair to me.

[Garfunion]

you roll a 1d4 and get one of the effects. Some people have a bad trip, others get good effects.

Also its a ritual, so it doesn't use a spell slot and you can use it on other people, but it uses up 50 gp per person.

50 GP for a second level spell that might backfire seems about fair to me.

I don’t think a spell should have a random chance at giving the target a negative affect. Besides don’t forget about a cheaper and simpler spell called Enhanced Ability.

[Nefariis]

See - this is why I come to this forum first.

I want the player to have fun, and he's doing a great job RP'ing - so I want to try and allow some version of this.


How does something like this look?


First level spell is called "Good Mushies"

Then at third level spells, Ill give him access to a spell called "Guiding Mushies"

* Creates 5 Mushes
* Gives 2hp
* Guidance does not work in tandem.
* Mushies last for 24 hours.
* For the next hour the mushie provides advantage to one ability or skill check.
* roll 1d10 - on 1 the user is poisoned for an hour

This is giving five worse bardic inspirations away for a third level spell slot with the opportunity of a negative effect.

Thoughts?

[Garfunion]

See - this is why I come to this forum first.

I want the player to have fun, and he's doing a great job RP'ing - so I want to try and allow some version of this.


How does something like this look?


First level spell is called "Good Mushies"

Then at third level spells, Ill give him access to a spell called "Guiding Mushies"

* Creates 5 Mushes
* Gives 2hp
* Guidance does not work in tandem.
* Mushies last for 24 hours.
* For the next hour the mushie provides advantage to one ability or skill check.
* roll 1d10 - on 1 the user is poisoned for an hour

This is giving five worse bardic inspirations away for a third level spell slot with the opportunity of a negative effect.

Thoughts?
Why are you giving a random chance to poison someone?

What exactly are you really trying to give the player?

[strangebloke]

I don’t think a spell should have a random chance at giving the target a negative affect. Besides don’t forget about a cheaper and simpler spell called Enhanced Ability.

It's a ritual, so it only costs fifty GP. And it's not concentration.

So no it isn't really comparable to enhance at all. The lolrandom element should appeal to the player and she seems to mostly like the idea for reasons of fun.

[Garfunion]

It's a ritual, so it only costs fifty GP. And it's not concentration.

So no it isn't really comparable to enhance at all. The lolrandom element should appeal to the player and she seems to mostly like the idea for reasons of fun.

Then I’m not sure what the OP or you are trying to create here. You could just as easily have the player use the herbalist kit and spend some gold to create some special brownies. Instead of trying to craft it into a spell.

Perhaps this crafted item requires the use of two Goodberries? This way a spell slot can be spent in order to reduce the crafting time, similar to Continual Flame spell.

[Nefariis]

I dont know if I was trying to make it a ritual - I think i would rather have it burn slots than gold.

I definitely don't mind the idea of having a `brownie recipe` that he can make with an herbalist kit, I think that makes sense.

[Garfunion]

I dont know if I was trying to make it a ritual - I think i would rather have it burn slots than gold.

I definitely don't mind the idea of having a `brownie recipe` that he can make with an herbalist kit, I think that makes sense.
What kind of bonus are you trying to give the player?

[Nefariis]

What kind of bonus are you trying to give the player?

I wasn't trying to give him anything - he approached me with the first posted spell.

With that being said, if he wants something that helps his character thematically, I'm all for it.

I thought about this a lot on my drive home and the way I see it is that I think I would like it to fall somewhere around bardic inspiration and potion of healing.

So here I guess is what it's competing with:


A potion of healing is 50gp and 2d4+2 (7) healing.
Bardic inspiration gives 3-4 (assuming 16-18 CHA) d6's for ability, save, skills, and attacks.
Guidance gives a d4 at will to a single creature for 1 minute


Per my last entry, this ability would give 10 healing (5x2) and 1 x guidance (advantage instead of d4) for an hour.

This could fall in the range of a third level spell or maybe a 100 gold of materials for an herbalist kit?

But maybe at 100gp the player would say, "Ill just give them guidance instead"?

I dont know, I want to give him something that he will use, but not be over powered or a complete distraction.

[Garfunion]

I wasn't trying to give him anything - he approached me with the first posted spell.

With that being said, if he wants something that helps his character thematically, I'm all for it.

I thought about this a lot on my drive home and the way I see it is that I think I would like it to fall somewhere around bardic inspiration and potion of healing.

So here I guess is what it's competing with:


A potion of healing is 50gp and 2d4+2 (7) healing.
Bardic inspiration gives 3-4 (assuming 16-18 CHA) d6's for ability, save, skills, and attacks.
Guidance gives a d4 at will to a single creature for 1 minute


Per my last entry, this ability would give 10 healing (5x2) and 1 x guidance (advantage instead of d4) for an hour.

This could fall in the range of a third level spell or maybe a 100 gold of materials for an herbalist kit?

But maybe at 100gp the player would say, "Ill just give them guidance instead"?

I dont know, I want to give him something that he will use, but not be over powered or a complete distraction.
This may work for you. It provides some healing and a bonus to one skill roll. I added a costly material component that is not consumed.

Greater Berry

3rd-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a sprig of mistletoe & a Ruby worth 50gp)

Duration: Instantaneous

Up to five greater berries appear in your hand and are infused with magic for the duration. A creature can use its action to eat one greater berry. Eating a greater berry restores 5 hit point. Additionally, for the next 24 hours the berry provides advantage to one d20 roll the creature makes. After this advantage is used the spell ends.

The berries lose their potency if they have not been consumed within 24 hours of the casting of this spell.

[Anymage]

Goodmushies level one - a goodberry spell that affects mushrooms instead of berries - is a perfectly good modification on its own. Players are free to decide and rp how much psychoactive effect, if any, the mushrooms have.

If you want to make upcast variants, I'd either allow an upcast variant to have certain divination-like effects at the cost of inflicting the poisoned status (your awareness is expanded, but your ability to interact with the physical world is impaired by the information overload), or flat out say that if you spend a spell slot for a divination spell while casting goodmushie, you'll effectively have a potion of that spell for when someone eats it. Either option will have to be strict about the time limit before a goodmushie goes bad, though, to avoid getting around spells per day by stockpiling.

And since I mentioned psychedelics being used to open minds for divination effects: so long as nobody uses this to try and bypass component costs, you are both allowed and encouraged to change material components to suit your needs. If your hippie druid casts Detect Magic by opening his mind with recreational substances, go for whatever makes your table happy.

[Zerubbabel]

I knew a few people who only ever played D&D lit on the green stuff, but doing it on Mushies would be borderline impossible? Unless a very low dose

[Bjarkmundur]

"The target rolls insight checks as if under the effects of a Guidance spell for the duration"
"

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I think you can balance it if the player have to play like their character is high and can't really interact with the world properly.

Something like disadvantage on deception/intimidation and a chance to forget what happened (1/100 or 1/50 or 1/20 I think, based on how many he ate).

Or maybe getting false information as he see things that isn't there.

And make it that a. Poison immunity make you unable to benefit from everything but the healing.