The Eldest Son?- 495

[TimeWizard]

Did anyone else catch what Roy's mom said? "Figures he wouldn't be happy about his eldest son..." that doesn't seem like something you'd say if you only had one son. We know about Julia, but does Eugene have other children?

[Querzis]

Did anyone else catch what Roy's mom said? "Figures he wouldn't be happy about his eldest son..." that doesn't seem like something you'd say if you only had one son. We know about Julia, but does Eugene have other children?

Well:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html

In the seven panel we see a baby next to roy. It cant really be Julia since Roy is about 10 years older then her so it could be another brother or sister of Roy. We dont know that much about Roy past, he could very well have four or five siblings instead of just one or two.

[Wrecan]

However, since the bloodoath now passes to Julia, it implies that any middle child(ren) died before Roy. I suppose they have their own place on the Mountain, or weren't LG.

[Querzis]

However, since the bloodoath now passes to Julia, it implies that any middle child(ren) died before Roy. I suppose they have their own place on the Mountain, or weren't LG.

Not really, the blood oath was not even supposed to pass to Roy. Eugene wanted Julia to take care of that oath because she was studying to be a wizard. It probably just means that, even if Roy got other siblings, Julia is definitly the only wizard. Maybe they just arent adventurers too, I doubt even Eugene would ask a level 1 commoner to kill Xykon. Beside if they arent Lawfull and if Eugene was also a jerk with them like he is with Roy, I doubt they would try to fullfill that blood oath even if they hear about it.

[David Argall]

As to Roy possible siblings SOD 21, now 22, years ago, Sara asks Jerome to put his children ahead of his work. Jerome realizes he has not been involved with his family enough to be sure that was not the correct word.

But it would seem clear Julia is the next oldest surviving child, tho one can work around that for a good gag.

[Master_Forcide]

As to Roy possible siblings SOD 21, now 22, years ago, Sara asks Jerome to put his children ahead of his work. Jerome realizes he has not been involved with his family enough to be sure that was not the correct word.

But it would seem clear Julia is the next oldest surviving child, tho one can work around that for a good gag.

Eugene. And no, thats not quite what happened: Roy's Mom was implying that she was pregnant. Eugene is aware of how many times his wife has given birth.

[Squark]

Its possible that the middle greenhilt child died in his childhood. One of the things that erks some of the more history buff type players is the fact that the average life expectancy for an npc is near what it is now, yet in the middle ages, you rarely lived past 30 or 40, and death in childhood was common. Of course, since Eugene (That is who you meant by Jerome, right?) apperently had a near brotherly relationship with his party cleric (excuse the minor SOD spoiler), you'd think his children wouldn't have to worry about disease, which was the main killer.

[DraPrime]

This strip appeared waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before Julia. Odds are Rich hadn't thought of her yet. That was probably some random kid that Rich felt like adding.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

This strip appeared waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before Julia. Odds are Rich hadn't thought of her yet. That was probably some random kid that Rich felt like adding.

I wouldn't make a HUGE bet on that theory. A small one, mo more than you can afford to lose...

Rich drops subtle hints early on, which end up being important later on.

Of course, I was sort of expecting Julia because of the baby, but I was also sort of expect less of an age gap. Julia in college, not in high school...

So maybe Rich didn't plan fully on Julia, or there is still a third Greenhilt sibling waiting to be presented.

Or maybe it's Richie and Joanie Cunningham's older brother Chuck. :smallbiggrin: Everybody remembers him, right?

[chibibar]

I am thinking there is another one somewhere :)

Eugene WANTS the next taker of the Oath to be Julia, but Eugene was told it HAS to be next of kin which is Roy (the oldest) now Roy is dead, the next of kin is Julia.

[omegarob]

maybe the julia is the next of kin but the mystery son is still alive, maybe its not eugenes

[Shhalahr Windrider]

...yet in the middle ages, you rarely lived past 30 or 40, and death in childhood was common.
1.) That's a fallacy. The "Average Life Expectancy" of 40 or so for people of that time period is heavily skewed by high infant mortality. It was hard to make it to your first couple birthdays, but after that, you were typically good to go.

2.) Real-world middle ages life expectancy means nothing in a world with access to cure light wounds, restoration, and cure disease anyway.

[Corwin Weber]

1.) That's a fallacy. The "Average Life Expectancy" of 40 or so for people of that time period is heavily skewed by high infant mortality. It was hard to make it to your first couple birthdays, but after that, you were typically good to go.

2.) Real-world middle ages life expectancy means nothing in a world with access to cure light wounds, restoration, and cure disease anyway.

You beat me to it.

It's a very common misconception that people just keeled over dead at 30 back then. If you made it to 20, you were reasonably likely to make it to 60 or 70. (As long as you were a man. Women had a tendency to die fairly young due to the stresses of repeated pregnancies. 3-4 kids over a lifetime is a bit much but not horrific. 15.... that's different.)

[Lissou]

You beat me to it.

It's a very common misconception that people just keeled over dead at 30 back then. If you made it to 20, you were reasonably likely to make it to 60 or 70. (As long as you were a man. Women had a tendency to die fairly young due to the stresses of repeated pregnancies. 3-4 kids over a lifetime is a bit much but not horrific. 15.... that's different.)

That, and dying while giving birth was more common that it is now.


As for the third sibling, I mentioned the SoD spoiler too in the main thread (and you should probably label this thread "spoiler speculation" by the way), and saying "eldest son" instead of "son" seems to be like a hint, yes.

So I'd say there is another kid that Rich has been avoiding mentionning in an obvious way, but is dropping hints about. maybe that's what 500 reveals, if he's actually dead like some people say? Although, why wouldn't he have been raised or anything?

[Behold_the_Void]

I'd like to point out that dying while giving birth isn't as common as we tend to think it was. The female body is, after all, designed specifically to give birth, and even now in what would be considered 3rd world countries, death during childbirth isn't ESPECIALLY common. Not unheard of, certainly, but not as prevalent as many might think.

It'd be odd that the child died though. Eugene's friends with several clerics and, as a former adventurer and a high-level wizard, he definitely had the income to take care of any complications that might arise.

[Tempest Fennac]

As well as te cost of a Raise Dead spell (5000 GPs of diamonds, which someone claimed on another thread worked out at about $1,000,000, which possibly wouldn't be that much of a problem for Eugene considering how being a reasonably high level Wizard seems to be a lucrative career), level1 characters lose 2 points of constitution perminantly, which would mean that the child would be more likely to die of illness if they were revived, which would mean that it probably wouldn't be worth it if the child's constitution was really low to begin with. There is also the possibility that they tried using Raise Dead, but the child didn't want to come back.

[Lissou]

I'd like to point out that dying while giving birth isn't as common as we tend to think it was. The female body is, after all, designed specifically to give birth, and even now in what would be considered 3rd world countries, death during childbirth isn't ESPECIALLY common. Not unheard of, certainly, but not as prevalent as many might think.

It'd be odd that the child died though. Eugene's friends with several clerics and, as a former adventurer and a high-level wizard, he definitely had the income to take care of any complications that might arise.

Well, when they had 10+ kids, and with less advanced science, they died more often. Not all the time, of course, not even "often", but more often. that's all I meant. that would reduce the female expectancy compared to the male one, be it slightly.

[Ancalagon]

Even if there it is just one son he is the eldest son... I think you are overintrepreting here.

[Lissou]

Even if there it is just one son he is the eldest son... I think you are overintrepreting here.

Yes, but she could have just said "his son". If he's the only son, his mother saying "eldest son" doesn't seem natural to me.

Yes, we could be overinterpreting it, although I think the hints add up to something less than vague by now.

[Arnen]

I'd like to point out that dying while giving birth isn't as common as we tend to think it was. The female body is, after all, designed specifically to give birth, and even now in what would be considered 3rd world countries, death during childbirth isn't ESPECIALLY common. Not unheard of, certainly, but not as prevalent as many might think.

Yes, the female body is designed to give birth, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to start popping out babies as soon as you've had your first period and been married off. Considering most girls were doing so at around fifteen back then, before the body is developed enough to be able to safely carry a baby to term, it seems fairly obvious that many girls would die during childbirth simply because their bodies weren't ready for the strain just yet. Even today, most girls who get pregnant at that age are subject to premature births, at the very least.

Anyway, I'd say the baby shown in whatever-strip-it-was seems to indicate a baby in between Roy and Julia, since the age gap between the two is at least a decade or so, and the baby shown in the one panel can't have been more than five or six years younger than Roy. It seems entirely possible that he/she is not an adventurer, considering Eugene has shown neither interest nor particular disdain towards any third child; I'm sure that if the child were an aspiring wizard, he'd be trying to rope him/her into the Blood Oath, and if he/she were training as a fighter, he'd likely be ragging on him/her right along with Roy.

I'm reminded a bit of Frankenstein... Oh, yes, and I have another brother, who I happened to neglect mentioning earlier when I listed off all my family members, and he's just been killed...

((I appologize if any of this post made little or no sense; it's 2:30 in the morning as I'm typing this, and I'm likely to conk out as soon as it's posted.))

[Khanderas]

Yes, but she could have just said "his son". If he's the only son, his mother saying "eldest son" doesn't seem natural to me.

Yes, we could be overinterpreting it, although I think the hints add up to something less than vague by now.
Im the only son and I got 4 younger sisters. Doesn't stop me from being "the eldest son". *shrug*

[Ceaon]

Yet you are also the youngest son. So why specifically say "eldest"?
I have a younger sister and brother. I'm the eldest son, the eldest child, but in no way the youngest son. In that case, my mother might call me her "eldest son" (though using my given name would be preferable I guess).

[FujinAkari]

Yet you are also the youngest son. So why specifically say "eldest"?
I have a younger sister and brother. I'm the eldest son, the eldest child, but in no way the youngest son. In that case, my mother might call me her "eldest son" (though using my given name would be preferable I guess).

Because the eldest child is a position of respect and responcibility among most families. Even though Roy was Eugene's only son (most likely), he was still the eldest, and enunciating that better showed his mother's disgust at Eugene.

[Lissou]

Im the only son and I got 4 younger sisters. Doesn't stop me from being "the eldest son". *shrug*

I don't know, it sounds to me like you should be "the eldest child" or "the son". Eldest son means "eldest of several sons".

I have three brothers and I refer to them as "my eldest brother, my older brother, and my little brother". If I had only one, it would just be "my brother". Maybe older or younger, because I can compare them to me, but not eldest or youngest.

And that's really not the only thing. Roy was 28 at the beginning of the strip, Julia was 16. They have a 12 year difference. Does the kid in strip 113 look like he's 12 to you?
Of course, the main evidence is the spoilered one, so if you haven't read SoD, I can't really tell you what it is, but I'd say unless Rich made a big mistake, there is or was a third Greenhilt kid at some point.

This is still a theory, but I think it's one of the realistic ones that has some evidence to back it up, even if the hints are small.

[Kish]

Jerome
You know, I thought it was weird enough when you were calling Redcloak Redcloud, but at least it was close to his name. But Jerome? :smallconfused:

[Mr Wizard]

Well:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html

In the seven panel we see a baby next to roy. It cant really be Julia since Roy is about 10 years older then her so it could be another brother or sister of Roy. We dont know that much about Roy past, he could very well have four or five siblings instead of just one or two.

That comic made me realize where Roy got the Idea to cut the head off Xykons undead dragon. :smallbiggrin:

[Pvednes]

You know, I thought it was weird enough when you were calling Redcloak Redcloud, but at least it was close to his name. But Jerome? :smallconfused:

Gattaca, I think.

[Squark]

1.) That's a fallacy. The "Average Life Expectancy" of 40 or so for people of that time period is heavily skewed by high infant mortality. It was hard to make it to your first couple birthdays, but after that, you were typically good to go.

2.) Real-world middle ages life expectancy means nothing in a world with access to cure light wounds, restoration, and cure disease anyway.

Oh...

But you have to remeber, the common people don't have acess to those things. Cure light wounds from the local cleric/adept(There's a fair chance there isn't a cleric in the town), but even lesser restoration is a bit out of reach for hamlets

[darkblade]

Oh...

But you have to remeber, the common people don't have acess to those things. Cure light wounds from the local cleric/adept(There's a fair chance there isn't a cleric in the town), but even lesser restoration is a bit out of reach for hamlets

The Greenhilts have enough money to put their (eldest?) son through College and possibly their daughter later.

I don't think they're common people.

[Solo]

Anyway, I'd say the baby shown in whatever-strip-it-was seems to indicate a baby in between Roy and Julia, since the age gap between the two is at least a decade or so, and the baby shown in the one panel can't have been more than five or six years younger than Roy. It seems entirely possible that he/she is not an adventurer, considering Eugene has shown neither interest nor particular disdain towards any third child; I'm sure that if the child were an aspiring wizard, he'd be trying to rope him/her into the Blood Oath, and if he/she were training as a fighter, he'd likely be ragging on him/her right along with Roy.

Alternate hypothesisis:

1) It was someone else's child Sara was babysitting
2)It was a third sibling, but he/she died in a drunk drving accident.

[Wolfwood2]

I like the idea of there being a third Greenhilt sibling.

"Julia is our last hope."

"No... there is another."

Hee.

[Melotheia]

Just to add a final point to the lifespan thing. The diet of a medieval peasent was very lacking in iron, so a good number of otherwise healthy women bled to death after giving birth. This is on top of being too young and have a dozen or so children. It wasn't until legumes were introduced into the commoner diet that women actually had much of a chance.

[David Argall]

SOD

Eugene. And no, thats not quite what happened: Roy's Mom was implying that she was pregnant. Eugene is aware of how many times his wife has given birth.

Not impossible, but...
Most important, it's just not as funny. Eugene not knowing how many kids he had is good for a laugh here. It's not set up properly for her broadsiding him with the news a 2nd child is on the way.
The timing is off if we want it to be Julia. This is 21 years ago, and julia was born about 16 years ago. So either way there is/was a third kid.
The language is off too. Sara's language implies there have been many times in the past where Eugene neglected his children, not just child.

[TroyXavier]

There's a lot of stuff that doesn't click exactly. Sara mentioning that she and Eugene were married for about 30 years, but Roy remembering her as gray haired. (Not impossible in her 40s, but seems a bit off)

A lot of women died of childbirth fever as well as bleeding to death.

[Lissou]

There's a lot of stuff that doesn't click exactly. Sara mentioning that she and Eugene were married for about 30 years, but Roy remembering her as gray haired. (Not impossible in her 40s, but seems a bit off)

A lot of women died of childbirth fever as well as bleeding to death.

Well, if they were married for 30 years, and if, when she was 19, she had never heard of Eugene Greenhilt, we can think she'd be in her 50s rather than her 40s (she'd met Eugene at 20 or more, so in her 20s, to which you add 30). Not impossible to be grey haired, pretty common actually. Nowadays the only women that age I know who don't have grey hairs are those who dye them.

Also, it can depend on the woman. My aunt at grey heir by the time she was 14. Of course that's very rare, but I don't see it as completely incoherent that, being around 50 when she died, she'd have grey hair.

[Setra]

Maybe the Blood Oath passes to the next child in order of age?

Oldest: Roy (Unless there were an older child who was disowned?)
Next: Julia
After: ? There could very well be another child, or even more, and they/s/h/it could very well be adventurers.

[Nattypat]

Well:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html

In the seven panel we see a baby next to roy. It cant really be Julia since Roy is about 10 years older then her so it could be another brother or sister of Roy. We dont know that much about Roy past, he could very well have four or five siblings instead of just one or two.

It seems you're over analyzing this. Didn't you first think of that baby as being Roy? The comic progresses through time with different instances. Roy is reaching for the sword but his mom tells him not to, then it shows him playing with a pretend sword when he's a bit older.

[Setra]

It seems you're over analyzing this. Didn't you first think of that baby as being Roy? The comic progresses through time with different instances. Roy is reaching for the sword but his mom tells him not to, then it shows him playing with a pretend sword when he's a bit older.
He's talking about the baby that you see behind the chair when Roy is playing with the sword.

[Querzis]

Maybe the Blood Oath passes to the next child in order of age?

Oldest: Roy (Unless there were an older child who was disowned?)
Next: Julia
After: ? There could very well be another child, or even more, and they/s/h/it could very well be adventurers.

No we see in Origins of the PC that Eugene wanted Julia to take care of the Blood Oath since she was the wizard, Roy woudnt even have been supposed to receive the Blood Oath in the first place, eldest child or not, but he wanted to do it to prove to Eugene that a fighter can do just as well as a wizard. Thats why I said he could very well have four or five siblings, Julia is not the second eldest child (or even the second eldest child that is still alive), shes just the only wizard and Eugene would trust just a wizard to do this.

[Kish]

No we see in Origins of the PC that Eugene wanted Julia to take care of the Blood Oath since she was the wizard, Roy woudnt even have been supposed to receive the Blood Oath in the first place, eldest child or not, but


...but Eugene didn't get to make the rules, and neither did Roy.

If the Blood Oath passes to Julia now, then she's the second oldest.

[Studoku]

The third (well, second) Greenhilt sibling is real now.

An Eugene killed him:smallfurious:

[Ceaon]

Yes, it was the only logical explanation left.
Eugene and Sara had a child after Roy and before Julia - and he died.
I wonder if the exact specifics will come up soon.

[Ancalagon]

Maybe that is the real reason why Roy really dislikes his father?

Ok, the jerk Eugene was and still is arrogant, but the real reason why Roy really, really does not like his father is the fact that Eugenes arrogance caused the death of his brother (and, additonally, the old man did not learn from that, a fact Roy does not understand).

[Darkbane]

The Giant actually did give us enough information previously to guess that there was a third sibling in a few strips and in SoD. See this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2850710&postcount=31) and the rest of the thread.

[/smug]

[lunatic113]

Roy's baby brother is sooooo cute!! :smallbiggrin:

[Mesfens]

The latest strip has Roy meeting his younger brother in the afterlife, stuck as a baby. It's a touching scene.

[Lissou]

Well, we did have enough hints and it's no surprise to those who've read SoD but... Here he is. And he's so cute ^^. I can't wait to learn more about what happened.

[dragongirl13]

Read the newest comic.

It's really touching.

And the Jerome thing is from Gattaca. Jerome Morrow asks Vincent to call him Eugene-his middle name.