Early entry into Lich?

[Particle_Man]

What is the lowest level that one could cheese one's way into lichdom?

[RedMage125]

What is the lowest level that one could cheese one's way into lichdom?

AFB atm, but 11th, isn't it?

[Efrate]

CL must be 11 and you need craft wondrous and a bunch of money and 4800xp. So level 4 if you can cheese the CL and have 120k gp.

[RedMage125]

CL must be 11 and you need craft wondrous and a bunch of money and 4800xp. So level 4 if you can cheese the CL and have 120k gp.

Can't spend XP that drops you a level...

[Thurbane]

You could use boosters to "artificially" boost your CL, to make the required phylactery before you actually reach 11th level.

3.5 Raising Caster Level (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?484088-3-5-Raising-Caster-Level)

Raising Caster Level (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444635-Raising-Caster-Level)

A Duergar spellcaster level 6 might technically meet the reqs for "caster level of 11th or higher" by virtue of their SLAs.

[Efrate]

Level 5 almost 6 misrememberd the levelling chart. Takes 14801 or more xp.

[Jack_Simth]

Can't spend XP that drops you a level...

Assuming the phylactery is treated as a magic item, you can use Liquid Pain, Dark Craft XP, Ambrosia, or trapped souls to cover that (see the Book of Vile Darkness and the Book of Exalted Deeds).

[Mr Adventurer]

Don't know about early, but something I've thought about is slapping 1 spellcasting level onto an otherwise straight warrior, taking Abjurant Champion so your CL = BAB, and you'll be able to make a martial Lich (with 6th level spellcasting).

That, or just use Duskblade.

[RatElemental]

Can't spend XP that drops you a level...

Leveling up isn't strictly mandatory, you can at the very least choose to use it on casting spells instead according to the SRD. It's arguable that undergoing lichification could also be done that way if you managed to get enough exp to do it all at once.

[Telonius]

Artificer would probably help here, since it counts as Caster Level +2 for the purposes of item creation. Something like Artificer6/Wizard1. (Wizard level is there since you have to be able to cast spells; infusions aren't good enough). Then Ioun Stone and a dose of Agony to get your caster level up to 9. +2 from Artificer, and you're at the CL 11 you need. You can Retain Essence to get the XP necessary to create the phylactery without losing a level. All you need is the GP. So, level 7 without too much cheese or effort.

[Quertus]

Level 1 Necropolitan, Polymorph any Object shenanigans?

Level 1 alternate XP (dark craft, liquid pain, etc) for the phylactery, using Sculpt Self to a) spend any "normal" XP earned, and to b) create copious custom caster level boosters?

[Khatoblepas]

Artificer would probably help here, since it counts as Caster Level +2 for the purposes of item creation. Something like Artificer6/Wizard1. (Wizard level is there since you have to be able to cast spells; infusions aren't good enough). Then Ioun Stone and a dose of Agony to get your caster level up to 9. +2 from Artificer, and you're at the CL 11 you need. You can Retain Essence to get the XP necessary to create the phylactery without losing a level. All you need is the GP. So, level 7 without too much cheese or effort.

I don't think you need that Wizard Level, since if the only proviso is "you need to be able to cast spells", the feat Magical Training grants you the ability to cast three level 0 spells.

I'm sure there's a way to get there earlier, maybe with Craft Magic Tattoo.


Edit: Okay, what about Bloodlines? If you can take all three at the earliest opportunity, and level up to Artificer 3, you get:
Artificer: 3+2.
Ioun Stone: +1 (borrow it from a spellcaster)
Agony: +1
Bloodline: +3
Craft Magic Tattoo: +1 (pay someone to cast it at CL12, generally 240gp, probably the same person you borrowed the Ioun Stone from)

[Telonius]

Looks pretty good. If you have a way to get the absurd amount of GP required to craft the phylactery, adding 20,000 for the Ioun stone isn't going to be much of a barrier. The only issue with Level 3 is that you won't have Retain Essence, so you'll need to use Dark Crafting or some other XP-reducing thing. (Which might be more convenient than finding the magic items to Retain Essence on anyway, so maybe it's a wash).

[ShurikVch]

The biggest block on the way to lichdom is the monetary cost of phylactery creation: 120k gp is in-between of WbL for 13th and 14th levels (or - if DM would disallow you to blow all your property to a single item - in-between of 15th and 16th levels)

But, if the money isn't the problem, then you can do it at the very 1st level: pick as your race Lesser Planetouched, Shyft (Fiend Folio) - they have CL 9 SLA, which can be easily boosted to CL 11

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is there any way to steal a horcrux phylactery from a lich and graft your own life force into it? Preferably by destroying that of the lich. That'd save quite a lot of money.

Also, if you take abjurant champion 5 for martial arcanist, what happens if you get a bonus to CL of at least +1 and then cast divine power repeatedly before finally casting a Persistent version?

[Aotrs Commander]

With cheese, level seven is doable. I once got the wotC CharOp guys to help me plan it out, as I wanted a Lich for my Pale Master's Undead Leadership feat and explained to my DM the idea was mostly that if he asploded, he'd just come back a bit later and neither of us needed to worry about doing a new one. (Sadly, we never got quite far enough in the campaign to be high enoguh level to make it a reality.)

As I recall (it must have been around 2008, but I can't find the exact email I sent to my DM), it goes something like this.

Character must be Cleric 7, have Craft Wonderous Item has enough wealth to craft phylactery and buy Many Chickens and buy or acquire Orange Prism Ioun Stone (+1 Caster level).

He learns Divine Metamagic: Persist (which in my instance I specifically told my DM he would have swapped out later before my character recruited him).

Before each day of his crafting work, he gets his bag of chickens (at least three, maybe up to six to make sure), emptites it out and punches/knives chickens until they are all dying.

Cast Consumptive Field (SpC) with Persist DMM.

Wait until chickens die, giving him up to the maximum caster level boost (half of 7 = 3).

Caster level is now 7 +1 (Ioun stone) +3 (Consumptive Field) = 11, allowing him to meet the caster level requirement for the day's work.


I'm sure you could improve on the technique, but it's there as a basis. (I mean for a more serious take, you could, like, use something like prisioners or something for the caster level boost instead of chickens, but really, why wouldn't you want to say "I became a Lich because chickens?"



You eventually have a broke ECL 11 Lich (Cleric 7), who ascended to Undeadhood by beating up chickens, which was the sort os strangely approproate nonsense suited to my necromancer. (Extra comedy value - very uncharacteristically, solely because I liked the picture and it was Small, my character's minion was going to be a kenku. Who became a lich because chickens. See, I was planning awesome stuff with kenku before Greckles made it cool...!)

[RedMage125]

With cheese, level seven is doable. I once got the wotC CharOp guys to help me plan it out, as I wanted a Lich for my Pale Master's Undead Leadership feat and explained to my DM the idea was mostly that if he asploded, he'd just come back a bit later and neither of us needed to worry about doing a new one. (Sadly, we never got quite far enough in the campaign to be high enoguh level to make it a reality.)

As I recall (it must have been around 2008, but I can't find the exact email I sent to my DM), it goes something like this.

Character must be Cleric 7, have Craft Wonderous Item has enough wealth to craft phylactery and buy Many Chickens and buy or acquire Orange Prism Ioun Stone (+1 Caster level).

He learns Divine Metamagic: Persist (which in my instance I specifically told my DM he would have swapped out later before my character recruited him).

Before each day of his crafting work, he gets his bag of chickens (at least three, maybe up to six to make sure), emptites it out and punches/knives chickens until they are all dying.

Cast Consumptive Field (SpC) with Persist DMM.

Wait until chickens die, giving him up to the maximum caster level boost (half of 7 = 3).

Caster level is now 7 +1 (Ioun stone) +3 (Consumptive Field) = 11, allowing him to meet the caster level requirement for the day's work.


I'm sure you could improve on the technique, but it's there as a basis. (I mean for a more serious take, you could, like, use something like prisioners of something for the caster level boost instead of chickens, but really, why wouldn't you want to say "I became a Lich because chickens?"



You eventually have a broke ECL 11 Lich (Cleric 7), who ascended to Undeadhood by beating up chickens, which was the sort os strangely approproate nonsense suited to my necromancer. (Extra comedy value - very uncharacteristically, solely because I liked the picture and it was Small, my character's minion was going to be a kenku. Who became a lich because chickens. See, I was planning awesome stuff with kenku before Greckles made it cool...!)

You are a delight.

I usually run more serious adventure fantasy, so I probaly wouldn't allow it, but I've greatly enjoyed cheeky and fun games I've played in. And this is both.

[unseenmage]

If the phylactery is a magic item it might be cheaper to use Artificer to scroll Wish it into existence.

Is it more or less easy to use the Savage Species rituals to just make yourself into a Lich?

[Jowgen]

Is there any way to steal a horcrux phylactery from a lich and graft your own life force into it? Preferably by destroying that of the lich. That'd save quite a lot of money.

Seems pretty straightforward actually:


You can also mend a broken wondrous item if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the XP, half the raw materials, and half the time it would take to craft that item in the first place.


Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat.

Since the mending of broken magic items is part of the craft wondrous item feat, this should work unless someone gets real pedantic about "make" and "mend" being distinct non-game terms.