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View Full Version : Optimization Optimization Showcase in the Playground: The White Elephant



Piggy Knowles
2019-10-10, 09:31 AM
It’s been a long time, but we’re back!

INTRODUCTION
With more than a decade and a half of toying around with 3.5, I’ve accumulated a lot of spare builds and ideas. While I don’t have an active game going right now, I still like to pop open my builds folder and try to refine things. Recently I decided to make a dedicated effort to flesh out some of these builds into full write-ups, and reached out to some friends in the CO community who might be interested in doing the same. In the spirit of Tempest Stormwind’s Weekly Optimization Showcase (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?), I thought I’d showcase the end results here.

The goal is (usually) not to show off any fancy new TO trick, but to showcase effective, playable builds and spur discussion. While each of us has a different build philosophy, in general the intent is to create something that can be played in most groups from level 1 to level 20. Again, the goal is discussion, so feel free to discuss the build, talk about other options, make suggestions or tear it all to shreds. Also, feel free to use anything showcased here in any of your campaigns—and let us know how they work out if you do!

Right now the group consists of myself, the Viscount, Akal Saris, Venger and WhamBamSam, with a couple of other folks hopefully on their way. Typically one of us writes up the build concept and possibly a stub, the others share feedback on Discord or in some of the shared documents we have, and together we refine things until we’re happy with the final product. I’ll list the build’s main author whenever I showcase a particular build.


Buffsader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?559259-Optimzation-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Buffsader) (ToB/Gish/Party Support)
The Utility Belt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?560988-Optimzation-Showcase-in-the-Playground-The-Utility-Belt) (Psionics/Stealth/Utility)
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?569004-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Eternal-Sunshine-of-the-Spotless-War-Mind) (ToB/Psionics/Melee Damage)
The Melding Pot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?579458-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-The-Melding-Pot) (Incarnum/Utility)
That’s So Raven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581950-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-That%92s-So-Raven) (Gish/Ranged/Debuff)
Dancing in the Dark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?582528-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Dancing-in-the-Dark) (ToB/Stealth/Lock-down)
Gladys Knight and the Pips (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?583657-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Gladys-Knight-and-the-Pips) (Arcane/Face/Utility)
Zen in the Art of Archery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584417-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Zen-in-the-Art-of-Archery)
I Choose You! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?588818-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-I-Choose-You!) (Divine/Summmoning)
Cold World (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?589769-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Cold-World) (Divine/Summmoning/Lockdown)
Holy Roller and His Holy Boulders (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?591809-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Holy-Roller-and-His-Holy-Boulders) (Ranged/Wild Shape/Exalted)
Big Brother is Watching (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?593033-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Big-Brother-is-Watching) (Scrying/Arcane/Party Support)


For this showcase, we’ll look at a no save, just lose specialist: the White Elephant!


https://i.imgflip.com/3cxb2o.jpg

The White Elephant
Thanks! I hate it.

BACKGROUND
A gift from a friend is a wonderful thing. Who doesn’t like presents? But it’s all fun and games until someone gives you a white elephant, something ostensibly nice that just ends up being a pain in the rear end that try as you might, you can’t just get rid of.

Enter the White Elephant. This started out with The Viscount riffing on something I’ve seen speculated on a few times but never seen an actual build for: what if you used Spellguard of Silverymoon’s spellguard to apply transcend mortality to your opponents? They’d have a brief flash of epic-level defensive abilities, only to be reduced to a pile of dust at the end. With no saving throw, no [Death] tag and no spell resistance, there’s little that can be done to avoid this short of avoiding the touch attack itself.

Of course, transcend mortality plus spellguard is hardly a build, and I’m never a fan of builds that need to wait until such a high level to do anything interesting. But could we turn this into a whole build? Was it possible to make a BFC/debuffing-focused wu jen that could pull this off without turning into a one-trick pony? And how could we bypass the big honking drawback of going wu jen over wizard (namely, the significantly smaller spell list)?

After coming up with several different directions for this build, here’s what we settled on. While there are much more OP versions possible (see variants for more details), we liked this one for maintaining a good balance of flavor and flexibility. Hope you like it too.

THE BASICS

Race: Human, regular or silverbrow both work.
Build Stub: Wu Jen 5/Mage of the Arcane Order 4/Wyrm Wizard 3/Spellguard of Silverymoon 5/Archmage 3.
ACFs: Go ahead and check out the second Dead Levels article for some solid bonus features for the wu jen. They aren’t essential, but they’re nice.
Alignment: Any non-evil.



This build assumes that spellguard qualifies a spell for the archmage’s arcane reach ability to deliver at range, and that arcane reach qualifies touch spells for Chain Spell metamagic. The build is still salvageable without these assumptions (with the biggest loss being the inability to chain tree shape), but it’s worth discussing with your DM, as this is a hotly contested topic.

Why is it so contested? Well, let’s look at the text that defines what spells can be chained:



Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained…

(emphasis mine)

So yeah, two qualifiers: spells must have a target, and have a range “greater than touch.” Ray spells don’t generally have a target line and so do not typically qualify (AFAIK this wasn’t ever clarified in RC, and I’ve seen people argue this point, but the fact that “specifies a single target” is explicit in the feat requirement, I think this one is pretty clear). But unlike the Reach Spell metamagic, which includes language about effectively turning touch spells into ray attacks, arcane reach increases the range at which you can deliver touch spells without actually changing the spells to rays.

Does this mean that spellguard spells can now be chained? Well, I think it’s a reasonable interpretation. These are spells that have a single target (Personal) and therefore should meet the first requirement. Spellguard doesn’t eliminate that target line, but instead gives you a way to bypass its restriction. And they can be delivered at a range greater than touch (in this build’s case, 60’ away). But I also think that there’s plenty of room for DMs to disagree with me on this count.

That said, the build is far from lost without it. What you’ll lose out on is the ability to turn every enemy within 60’ into a tree as a 5th-level spell (and once per day as a 2nd-level spell). That’s a shame, but the build has a lot of other ways to stay effective. Chain Spell is still going to be a good choice, both for buffing (the classic Chain target for buffs, greater magic weapon, is on your spell list) and debuffing (nothing like chained dispels). You can still hit multiple targets with tree shape via Quicken, though obviously it is far less efficient.


The White Elephant




Level
Class
Feats
Class Features
Notes (Click to Expand)


1st
Wu Jen 1
Spell Focus (transmutation), Spell Focus (conjuration), Extend Spell
Watchful spirit, bonus feat
A wu jen is no wizard, but it’ll do in a pinch. While you don’t have anywhere near the flexibility of a wizard’s spell list, you have some solid options. In addition to low-level powerhouses like sleep, you have some unique options like ghost light, which creates a movable and constant fear effect, and fiery eyes, which allows you to set flammable items (including clothing) on fire once a round for a minute. With your secondary Dex focus and watchful spirit for initiative re-rolls, you should be able to consistently act near the beginning of the initiative cycle, so focus on disabling as many foes as possible early on.


2nd
Wu Jen 2

Intuitive spirit (knowledge (arcana))

The dead levels article gives you a free re-roll on a knowledge check of your choice on this otherwise dead level; I recommend arcana, but feel free to sub in another knowledge skill if it fits the character better.



3rd
Wu Jen 3
Cooperative Spell
Spell Secret (Extended alter self)
As is often the case, you’ll have to make do with a filler feat at this level for reasons of pre-reqs. As a Mage of the Arcane Order and a member of the Guards of Silverymoon, though, Cooperative Spell actually has some decent fluff behind taking it.

Wu jen tend to fare a bit better with 2nd-level spells than with 1sts. There are a lot more in the way of utility options, for one: alter self, detect thoughts, locate object, see invisibility and rope trick, for example. You also get some nice defensive buffs (the heart of XXX line is always a perennial favorite) and surprisingly solid BFC (I’m especially a fan of pyrotechnics, which also has nice synergy with fiery eyes). One of these options is wall of gloom. Check with your DM to see if you get the Complete Arcane version or the Spell Compendium version, as they are different spells. The Complete Arcane version is quite a bit better, and blocks low-level foes from crossing through it without a Will save.

As for your spell secret, it’s hard to go wrong with choosing a permanently extended alter self. That will mean a flexible buff spell that lasts you a full hour at this level, and will come in handy even more down the road.


4th
Wu Jen 4

Intuitive spirit (spellcraft)

Another dead level rescued by the Dead Levels series. Re-rolling a spellcraft check is honestly pretty great, even if it can’t be used for spell research.



5th
Wu Jen 5

Intuitive spirit (concentration)

Hey, 3rd-level spells! You get a few of the staples (dispel magic, haste, stinking cloud, heart of water), though this level is not nearly as game-breaking for you as it is for a wizard. One nice bit of BFC you have that wizards lack, however, is plant growth. Obviously you’ll only want to prepare it in outdoor settings, but it has an absolutely enormous range and area of effect, drops movement down to a crawl and has several built-in shaping effects (in addition to choosing its basic shape, you can also explicitly designate areas not affected).

As for your dead levels ability… well, I actually really liked the knowledge and spellcraft re-roll, but this concentration re-roll is a bit meh. It’s restricted to helping you concentrate during nonmagical, non-damaging disruptions such as weather, which makes it way too situational for my taste.


6th
Mage of the Arcane Order 1
Combat Casting
Guild member, spellpool I
Wu jen aren’t terrible but they lack so much utility as compared to wizards. Enter MotAO, which gives you access to a spellpool allowing you to pull wizard/sorcerer spells on the fly (provided you pay back your spell debt later by donating spell slots to the pool). You’re restricted to PHB spells, and limited to a total number of spell levels equal to half your CL rounded down (capped at level 3 spells currently), so this isn’t an ability you can spam, but it’s nice to have even now. The time required to retrieve the spell means this is at its strongest when used for utility purposes; there’s a LOT of utility to be had in 1-3rd level wizard spells.

Combat Casting is another filler feat, unfortunately. It’s almost the last one, I promise.



7th
Wyrm Wizard 1

Knowledge of the wyrm
Wyrm Wizard is primarily here to expand your spell list so that you can incorporate some neat options, but it has another benefit too. Right now, though, it’s mostly about getting a filler level out of the way on your way toward Spellguard. Enjoy another minor boost to knowledge (arcana) while you’re at it, though!

Of course, this level is all about the spells. 4th-level options are pretty solid, with wu jen picking up a lot of the best wizard spells at this level, including polymorph, solid fog, scrying and most of the walls. Your wu jen-specific options are also pretty strong at this level. Creeping darkness in particular is fantastic, giving you a big cloud effect with a long duration that makes everyone within it deaf, blind and mute, with no save or SR. It explicitly prevents spells with verbal components from being used, and unlike many fog spells, you can mentally direct it to move 20’ per round. Lesser spirit binding is also worth a shoutout. It’s a bit less flexible than its planar equivalent, but there are still a LOT of very good options among the fey and incorporeal undead. These are some of the spells that particularly set a wu jen apart from a wizard, so make the most of them.



8th
Spellguard of Silverymoon 1

Obligation, token, ward attunement
Spellguard of Silverymoon helps transition you from a fairly standard BFC/debuff-focused caster to a no save, just lose machine. It does come with some heavy RP constraints (in particular, you need to return to Silverymoon regularly for service), but you also get free reign to cast spells within its wards, so it’s not all bad.


9th
Spellguard of Silverymoon 2
Obtain Familiar, Fell Frighten
Metamagic feat
Familiars are always grand, and since wu jen don’t get them naturally, go ahead and pick one up. You can go with the standard choice of a raven, but as you’re not UMDing wands, it’s not really essential. Getting something with decent mobility will likely be your best option here. You also get a free metamagic feat at this level. Go ahead and grab Fell Frighten, which applies a nice no save debuff on your damaging spells. It’s not earth shattering, but wu jen get a lot of surprisingly solid direct damage options with a wide variety of areas, and this turns them into area debuffs instead. I particularly like it alongside hail of stone (low level, doesn’t care about energy resistance and the combination of small radius and big range gives you a lot of tactical flexibility).

5th-level spells are a bit odd for the wu jen. There’s a decent variety of utility options here (teleport, major creation, passwall, heart of fire, fabricate, servant horde, etc.) but the offensive choices pale a bit when compared to the awesomeness of your 4th-level spells (a lot of single target save-or-loses, which can end up very hit or miss). Terra cotta lion is a decent alternative to the SNA line, notable mostly for the fact that its hardness makes it surprisingly durable. Telekinesis can outdamage just about any non-metamagic’d blasting spell with a little bit of preparation. But again, the real stand-outs at this level are the utility options.



10th
Spellguard of Silverymoon 3

Selective spell
Selective spell is absolutely fantastic, allowing you to drop down massive area debuffs like solid fog or creeping darkness that only affect certain enemies. Just let that sink in: a selective creeping darkness means you can have your party run around without consequence while your opponents are all deaf, blind and mute with no save and no spell resistance. The fact that its effects are based on creature type make it a bit situational (it is at its best when you are fighting a lot of enemies of the same type, or when everyone in the party is the same subtype), but in my experience those situations are surprisingly common.



11th
Spellguard of Silverymoon 4
Quicken Spell
Metamagic feat, spellguard
And here we are: with spellguard, you finally make the full transition from your standard BFC/debuffmage to full-on White Elephant. Spellguard is a fascinating ability which allows you to apply personal spells with a touch. You’ve got some heavy restrictions on what personal spells you can apply—the spell must improve AC, increase a saving throw or grant/heal additional hit points. That being said, the party buffing applications of this should be obvious to anyone: some of the strongest buffs are personal spells, and now you can apply them to your party as well.

So yeah, spellguard is a very cool option even when just used as intended. But here’s where the White Elephant comes in. What if you apply buff spells to your enemy instead? Spells that maybe they don’t want? Personal spells lack any sort of saving throw or spell resistance and doesn’t require a willing target, so if you can touch your opponent, you can apply any personal spell that meets those standards with a touch. But wait, why would we want to improve our opponent’s defenses or heal them? Well, just hang on, we’ll get some goodies to abuse this with very soon…

And beyond spellguard, the upgrade to 6th-level spells is very nice. While 5th-level was a bit sparse, you get a lot more mileage out of 6th-level spells. For whatever reason the total list of spells is on the low side for 6ths, but what you do have includes some fantastic options like greater dispel magic, control weather and spirit binding, the latter of which can nab you a 16 HD fey/incorporeal undead.


12th
Wyrm Wizard 2
Skill Focus (spellcraft)
Spell research (tree shape)
Now that we have spellguard, let’s figure out how to use it. A quick dip back into wyrm wizard starts us off strong: while we drop a caster level, we pick up tree shape off the druid list. This spell allows you to transform yourself into a tree for hours per level, giving yourself a hefty +10 natural armor bonus but reducing your Dex and speed to 0 (and, you know, turning you into a giant tree). With the armor bonus that it grants, it more than meets the qualifications for spellguard, meaning that you can apply it to your enemies with a touch. That’s right, you now have a no save 2nd-level spell that will turn your enemies into a tree for hours with a touch. Heck, with your familiar, you don’t even have to get up close and personal to deliver it! Extend it and it’ll basically last all day even at this level for the low cost of a 3rd-level spell slot. Not too shabby.

Skill Focus (spellcraft) is the last of your filler feats, allowing you to qualify for archmage in short order.


13th
Mage of the Arcane Order 2
Chain Spell
Free metamagic feat
We’ve got a couple of levels to kill before we can pop into archmage or take our next level of wyrm wizard, so let’s go back to MotAO. You get a free metamagic feat, so go ahead and grab Chain Spell. This is always handy for buffers, and it’s going to be even handier for you soon.


14th
Mage of the Arcane Order 3

Bonus language
Unfortunately that wyrm wizard level set us back a bit, so we’re just now picking up 7th-level wu jen spells. Luckily, 7th-level wu jen spells are so good that it’s worth the wait. You get two of your most powerful and unique options at this level: body outside of body and giant size. You might not want to turn into a colossal giant… but I bet there’s someone in your party who does, and thanks to spellguard, you can let them live their dreams. Meanwhile, BoB has all kinds of potential abuse, especially when combined with archmage. Playing a wu jen often feels like an intentionally handicapped wizard, but these are a couple of the spells that really make it worthwhile.

(Oh yeah, you also get other little spells that no one cares about like greater scrying, greater teleport, arcane spellsurge, disintegrate and limited wish... you know, boring stuff like that.)


15th
Archmage 1
Magic of the Land
High arcana (arcane reach)
Spellguard to turn people into trees or turn your allies into towering colossi is neat, but being restricted to touch range can be really lame. Enter archmage, with its high arcana: now you can cast touch range spells as ranged touch attacks within 30’. Not only does this let you hit targets at range, it also means that your touch spells should now qualify for Chain Spell (although see the blurb about Chain Spell and archmage near the beginning of this post), which requires a range greater than touch. Why settle for turning one adjacent foe into trees, when you can turn a whole chain of enemies within 30’ into trees?

And while we’re talking about extending the use of spellguard, let’s look at the feat this level. Magic of the Land allows you to add a healing rider to any spell in a natural setting. While the “natural setting” aspect of this creates a heavy restriction (most dungeons and all cities won’t qualify, and the way that it’s defined means that acorn of far travel abuse is unlikely to bypass its requirement), it can actually turn you into a buffing and debuffing machine when you’re in the right setting. How about some no save dazing via lesser celerity? Or maybe using ethereal jaunt to let your party rogue go all ghost-like for a while?


16th
Wyrm Wizard 3

Draconic discover (2nd)
While wyrm wizard is mostly just a vehicle for expanding spell lists, its draconic discover ability gives you some free metamagic once a day. Now, granted, you’re restricted to a 2nd-level spell, but hey, wait a minute, isn’t tree shape second level? That’s right, so go ahead and get a free Chain Spell off.

And 8th-level spells are every bit as good as you’d expect. Minute form is less useful in combat than giant size, but provides a lot of fun utility and again is something fairly unique to wu jens and something you specifically get a lot of mileage out of thanks to spellguard. Greater spirit binding is less broken than GPB I guess, but binding an elemental weird or a spirit of the land is still plenty broken. And speaking of breaking the game, this is also the level at which you get polymorph any object, so, you know… options.


17th
Archmage 2

High arcana (arcane reach)
Using a chained tree shape to turn all your foes within a 30’ range into trees is good, but you know what’s better? A 60’ range, that’s what.


18th
Mage of the Arcane Order 4
Improved Familiar
Spellpool II
9th-level spells are just as ridiculous for a wu jen as they are for a wizard, considering that you get almost all the big guns (shapechange, gate, time stop). But you ALSO get an interesting one: transcend mortality. As an immediate action, you become basically unkillable… but as soon as the spell ends, you’re reduced to a pile of ash with no save and no way to avoid it. Great for tough encounters where sticking it out for a few extra rounds means the difference between victory and TPK, but more importantly, it’s a valid spellguard target. It’s also dismissable, meaning you can as an immediate action touch someone 60’ away to hit them with transcend mortality, then dismiss the spell to end it, turning them into dust in the wind. That’s right: no save, no SR, not a [Death] effect, and an immediate action casting, and they just die.

With all that said, it almost feels anticlimactic to bring up your spellpool, but you now also have access to 4th- through 6th-level wizard spells, which is quite nice. Again, this is mostly going to be best for utility options, but you have some offensive options too. While it’s less effective than using tree shape or transcend mortality, one funny little option is to hit an enemy caster with a spellguard transformation and watch the frustration on their face as they turn from God into a mediocre fighter.

As for your final feat, Improved Familiar is a sensible upgrade for you, especially as it can share spells with you and make spells like shapechange even more threatening. I’m especially fond of the beguiler, with above-average stealth and permanent true sight (something that will certainly come in handy at these levels).


19th
Archmage 3

High arcana (spell-like ability)
Well, you’ve got body outside body and archmage levels, so you might as well go all the way. BoB keeps your clone from casting spells, but doesn’t restrict it from using any inherent abilities or SLAs. With the archmage’s SLA ability, you can now turn one of your spells into a permanent SLA. I’m particularly fond of shapechange here, allowing you and your BoB clone to turn into, well, whatever you want.


20th
Spellguard of Silverymoon 5

Selective spell (multiple types), spell power
Honestly anything that progresses spellcasting is a fine choice for your last level. MotAO, archmage and mindbender are all good options, but I prefer to close things out with the final level of Spellguard of Silverymoon. Selective spell improves a bit by allowing you to name multiple types on a single spell, and spell power gives you a nice CL bump to make up for the level you lost to wyrm wizard.




Intelligence and Dexterity are the name of the game. Intelligence is far and away the priority, while Dex helps you make ranged touch attacks. Beyond that, you really don’t need much.

SAMPLE STAT ARRAYS:
28-point buy: Str 8/Dex 14/Con 12/Int 18/Wis 10/Cha 8
32-point buy: Str 8/Dex 16/Con 12/Int 18/Wis 10/Cha 8



Your skill requirements largely overlap, with all classes requiring some combination of knowledge (arcana), spellcraft and/or concentration. Since those are three you’d want to keep maxed regardless, you shouldn’t have any trouble meeting requirements. You’ll also need at least 5 points in knowledge (nature), which again shouldn’t be a problem. I’d recommend keeping all of the monster-identifying knowledges trained (you’ll have skill points to spare thanks to your Int-focus and minimal skill requirements), as identifying types and subtypes is handy for your selective spell ability.


You’re a wizard, Harry (or something very much like a wizard, anyhow). Keep your spellbook full and load up on defensive items and anything that boosts Intelligence.


BUILD SUMMARY
For the first 11 levels, you’re a wu jen with some extras: thanks to MotAO, you can pull up a selection of wizard spells on demand, greatly increasing your utility, and Spellguard of Silverymoon gives your strongest BFC spells some extra oomph thanks to the absolutely fantastic selective spell ability. Wu jen get a bad rap outside of specific TO builds (usually involving BoB abuse), but their spell list has some gems on it, including many of the powerhouses that make the wizard into the king of the hill combined with some druid staples and a few unique gems. With MotAO to expand its utility a bit, the wu jen can keep its flavorful and unique spell list without falling too far behind other standard casters.

Once you hit level 12, though, all bets are off. At that point you are in full-on white elephant mode, “buffing” foes by turning them into trees with a touch. Eventually you’ll be able to do this at range and to multiple foes at once. Best of all this only requires a 2nd-level spell each time, making it eminently spammable. And by the end of your career you’ll be able to “help” your foes transcend their own mortality, too, leaving behind neat little piles of dust. All of this, of course, is on top of the fact that you have 19 effective levels of wu jen and can access spells up to 6th-level off of the wizard/sorcerer list.

VARIANTS
We’d originally envisioned this build on a wizard base, using wyrm wizard to pick up transcend mortality, and in all honesty that’s probably a strictly better setup. If you’re interested in going that route instead, my favorite version of that build involved a transmuter/master specialist base, mainly for the master specialist’s ability to allow transmutation spells to persist an extra round after being dispelled. Of course, part of the fun for us was building off a wu jen base instead of going down the fairly well-trodden path of wizard optimization, but as with all things, a Wizard Does It BetterTM.

We also discussed various methods of applying free metamagic in order to chain spells like tree shape and transcend mortality more easily. While we tend to steer clear of incantatrix abuse, we had a few build stubs involving ultimate magus that we considered. And we looked at using recaster instead of wyrm wizard, which has the disadvantage of being a level behind with its spell granting mechanic, but gives you two off-list spells and has several other fun features.

Meanwhile, if you want to take the current build and go deeper down the rabbit hole of TO, all the pieces are more or less there. While the wu jen is strictly less prone to abuse than the wizard, it does have a few spells that can provide some exceptionally silly results with a little bit of prodding. Body outside body is the big one, and if you want a clone army, all you have to do is replace the final level of spellguard with another archmage level for an additional SLA, so that all your clones have SLAs of BoB in addition to shapechange and can self-replicate.

SOURCES

Spell Focus, Skill Focus, Combat Casting, Extend Spell, Quicken Spell Improved Familiar, archmage: SRD
Wu jen, mage of the arcane order, Chain Spell, Obtain Familiar: Complete Arcane
Spellguard of Silverymoon: Player’s Guide to Faerun
Magic of the Land: Races of the Wild


***

And that’s that! Please let us know what you think in the comments, and what you’d like to see for future showcases!

Silvercrys
2019-10-10, 09:46 AM
I don't know what I was expecting when I opened the thread, but a Wu Jen that turns their enemies into trees using buff spells was not it. Great build.

Since you're technically "buffing" them, would you violate the letter of a Vow of Peace? Probably violates it when you use Transcend Mortality on them since they die at the end of the duration, but you could probably still turn them into trees for 24 hours or some such without breaking your vow.

Elves
2019-10-10, 11:09 AM
Did you guys touch on the Extra Spell debate before settling on wyrm wizard?

Re touch spells, I'm reminded again how unclearly archmage is written.

Are there no clever ways to use Magic of the Land anywhere then? The Ethereal/Astral/etc planes would count as natural by the feat's definition.


and what you’d like to see for future showcases!

Doing something clever with shadow sun ninja would be one.

WhamBamSam
2019-10-10, 12:12 PM
Did you guys touch on the Extra Spell debate before settling on wyrm wizard?

Re touch spells, I'm reminded again how unclearly archmage is written.

Are there no clever ways to use Magic of the Land anywhere then? The Ethereal/Astral/etc planes would count as natural by the feat's definition.

Doing something clever with shadow sun ninja would be one.If your DM lets you take things from outside your spell list with Extra Spell go for it, but since it's contentious, we tend to steer clear of that sort of thing. I personally tend to think that the more restrictive reading of Extra Spell is the correct one.

We did take a position on Reach+Chain, but I'm more comfortable with that.

We joked around a little bit about carting some trees around as a portable forest, but nothing that wasn't going to be too cheesy for the actual write-up, and the community restriction would keep it from working in cities (like, say, Silverymoon, where you have to return regularly) unless the local zoning board gave you a specific exemption like a magical tax shelter.

SSN is pretty well-trodden ground, but we all love ToB, so it'll probably show up in something eventually.

Malphegor
2019-10-10, 01:19 PM
Wu Jen and Mage of the Arcane Order is a very fun combo for roleplay now I think about it. You’re like the wizard equivalent of that guy who brings links to obscure and rare anime to a forum, and everyone’s falling over themselves to trade you some normal stuff to get access to the unusual stuff. Once I get my head around wu jen spells I’ma gonna steal that.

Hiro Quester
2019-10-10, 03:29 PM
Awesome build. A minor problem with using Transcend Mortality that way, is that dismissing a spell takes a standard action.

So without a way of gaining extra actions (celerity), you would be making your opponents unkillable and super powered for a round before you could dismiss the spell.

That certainly has comedy potential, but could be awkward dealing with their boosted wrath for a round before you take everything away from them.

WhamBamSam
2019-10-10, 03:50 PM
Awesome build. A minor problem with using Transcend Mortality that way, is that dismissing a spell takes a standard action.

So without a way of gaining extra actions (celerity), you would be making your opponents unkillable and super powered for a round before you could dismiss the spell.

That certainly has comedy potential, but could be awkward dealing with their boosted wrath for a round before you take everything away from them.Transcend Mortality doesn't make them any more dangerous, unless you were counting on your Fighter's AoO lockdown or something to keep them in check. If you thought your party was going to kill them before your next round, you wouldn't cast it, and if you thought they weren't, well now they can be doing something else instead with at least as much practical benefit. Also, since it's an immediate action you can use it immediately before your turn in the initiative order.

ExLibrisMortis
2019-10-10, 03:54 PM
I like it because it's stupid.

(It's a compliment disguised by a malconvoker.)

Elves
2019-10-10, 03:58 PM
Awesome build. A minor problem with using Transcend Mortality that way, is that dismissing a spell takes a standard action.

Sacrifice a PRC level for warblade dip and WRTBOB the extra actions to dismiss?

The Viscount
2019-10-10, 04:41 PM
Awesome build. A minor problem with using Transcend Mortality that way, is that dismissing a spell takes a standard action.

So without a way of gaining extra actions (celerity), you would be making your opponents unkillable and super powered for a round before you could dismiss the spell.

That certainly has comedy potential, but could be awkward dealing with their boosted wrath for a round before you take everything away from them.

Since Transcend Mortality is an immediate action to cast, I don't see any reason you couldn't dismiss it in the same turn that you cast it. As Sam mentioned, the spell is purely defensive. They'd have to be exceptionally inventive or a Jordain Vizier to be able to offensively use DR, energy resist, SR, or boost to saves.

As the build mentions, you have access to celerity from MotAO if you wanted the bonus actions.

There is of course the dirty trick that's definitely not going to fly at most tables of intentionally lowering your caster level to 0, but Piggy is a man of honor and this showcase is for sane practical optimization.

Troacctid
2019-10-10, 04:57 PM
By the time you can use the combo, you should be able to afford a belt of battle.

Anyway, do you really need the fancy wu jen spell? If tree shape is already taking them out of the fight with no save and leaving them helpless for hours afterwards, it seems to me like transcend mortality is overkill unless the target has some pretty spicy mental actions.

An even easier way to do it, btw, would be with ordained champion with druid as the base. That would let you channel tree shape (or aquatic escape for that matter) as early as ECL 7.

Elves
2019-10-10, 05:26 PM
There is of course the dirty trick that's definitely not going to fly at most tables of intentionally lowering your caster level to 0, but Piggy is a man of honor and this showcase is for sane practical optimization.
You couldn't cast the spell then in the first place no?

Efrate
2019-10-10, 06:00 PM
Anything interesting and actually good with Shadowcaster I would be all in for. Or binder anything that is not just anima mage cheese, zycrell, or infinity dmm through tenebreous.

The Viscount
2019-10-10, 09:51 PM
One little bit about Spellguard that we decided not to futz with too much for this build is the fact that, because it clearly doesn't intend for you to use it offensively, it simply mentions using the spell with a touch. One might argue that this means you wouldn't need to use a touch attack against a foe, and the possibility is part of what drew me to the idea in the first place. In our discussion we figured your foes are probably going to try to avoid your touches, so at most tables it's going to be a touch attack anyway.


By the time you can use the combo, you should be able to afford a belt of battle.

Anyway, do you really need the fancy wu jen spell? If tree shape is already taking them out of the fight with no save and leaving them helpless for hours afterwards, it seems to me like transcend mortality is overkill unless the target has some pretty spicy mental actions.

An even easier way to do it, btw, would be with ordained champion with druid as the base. That would let you channel tree shape (or aquatic escape for that matter) as early as ECL 7.

This build didn't really need to use transcend mortality, but as it was the concept that I began with as I brought it to the table, the group graciously kept it in as a flashy capstone of sorts. There's probably some encounters where one would want to get rid of an enemy quickly with transcend mortality, but you're right. Turning guys into trees will cover a lot of your needs. Piggy deserves the credit for pushing for getting tree shape as a usable spell for this build. It's actually the reason that we ended up going wu jen and not wizard entry with wyrm wizard to grab transcend mortality, so that we could have both spells.

I can't remember if we discussed ordained champion at one point in time. If we didn't I think might have been because ordained champion isn't so explicit with what spells you can use and we wanted to be ironclad. I think also the desire to stay out of melee and fill more of the buffer/debuffer role. That being said that's definitely a fast means to a cool trick, and hitting people to turn them into fish is pretty great.


You couldn't cast the spell then in the first place no?

Oh I was just referring to the debate about this in another thread. I certainly agree with the interpretation that you'd need a CL of 17 to cast it, as I think most would. A moot point anyway since this thread has covered better ways to make it work.

MinimanMidget
2019-10-10, 10:38 PM
Anything interesting and actually good with Shadowcaster I would be all in for. Or binder anything that is not just anima mage cheese, zycrell, or infinity dmm through tenebreous.

+1 - I love seeing the obscure (or outright bizarre) corners of 3.5 explored. Also, you already used Truenaming, so it's only fair to give the other ToM subsystems a moment in the spotlight.

Sleven
2019-10-11, 01:24 AM
Anyway, do you really need the fancy wu jen spell? [...] An even easier way to do it, btw, would be with ordained champion with druid as the base. That would let you channel tree shape (or aquatic escape for that matter) as early as ECL 7.

This sums up my general opinion of the Transcend Mortality concept. In any game you'd actually want to use it, there are better ways to do something effectively the same 1-20, including cribbing the actual spell off of the Wu Jen's list via alternative methods that don't cost you caster levels and can still be achieved on schedule.


I think might have been because ordained champion isn't so explicit with what spells you can use and we wanted to be ironclad.

Ordained Champion is ironclad. It starts out sounding like it means using the target entry of a spell to qualify, but quickly clarifies that even area spells and rays are eligible. That opens things right up for spells with range and effect entries, in other words: any spell.


something I’ve seen speculated on a few times but never seen an actual build for

Eh, it has though. Doc Roc's (aka Tidesinger's) creation using War Weaver and Favored Soul's Deity's Favor ACF to qualify any spell for Spellguard and the tapestry is probably the most famous. But there are plenty of other Spellguard stubs out there that utilize the same concept, including my own Necrobomber. Coincidentally, I referenced a couple of these Spellguard builds in my reply to your last showcase. Notably, one that combines Wu Jen with Void Disciple clones throwing around free feats in addition to no-save debuffs.

If I'm going to nitpick though, I would feel remiss not mentioning Residual Magic if the goal is to spam metamagic'd save-less effects. It even synergizes with the 3rd level Wyrm Wizard ability.


And we looked at using recaster instead of wyrm wizard, which has the disadvantage of being a level behind with its spell granting mechanic

This disadvantage is no better for a Wyrm Wizard. They also have to lose a level of casting progression to get an off-list spell. Recaster is just a better Wyrm Wizard that even gets its own version of Arcane Reach. A Recaster build could save you plenty of feats and get the Chain Spell trick online sooner. Of course, you'd be giving up the spell-like ability tricks, but switching to wizard and ignoring the creature components for Ice Assassins more than makes up for it.


Doing something clever with shadow sun ninja would be one.

I have plenty of those if you're interested, including one that can force over 56 saves vs blind in a single round at ~12th level. Of course, it usually kills them long before then.

Elves
2019-10-11, 08:32 AM
I have plenty of those if you're interested, including one that can force over 56 saves vs blind in a single round at ~12th level. Of course, it usually kills them long before then.

Yeah, please share or pm.

Zaq
2019-10-11, 01:24 PM
I’ll need to go over this in more detail when I have more time, but I love it with a quick skim.

Allanimal
2019-10-11, 05:04 PM
This looks great. I may have to use this for a certain NPC in the next session I am DMing....

PoeticallyPsyco
2019-10-12, 05:42 PM
I love it! "And you get a tree shape, and you get a tree shape, and you get a tree shape, and you get a tree shape too! Tree shapes for everyone!"