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Tor the Fallen
2007-10-16, 07:39 PM
Am I the only one who really wants to see a domain cleric?

For me, it really seems like, mechanically, every cleric is the same, which is one of the reasons that makes them so goddamned powerful. They have no limitations to what they can do, regardless of what god they worship.

I'm hoping that 4.0 will give us a cleric that matches the god he worships- why does a worshipper of the god of thieves automatically get heavy plate prof and turn undead?

A cleric is a caster in plate, ideal for buffing, decent to awesome at combat, with a bunch of juicy goodies thrown his way in the form of turning and domains.

reorith
2007-10-16, 07:42 PM
that would be pretty cool. they should also give granted powers more weight.

Human Paragon 3
2007-10-16, 07:43 PM
I kind of agree. In 2e your access to spells was much different, or at least it was in my games. Clerics had to be of a specific god and then each god granted a certain granted power (one of which was turn undead) and granted access to certain spheres (like schools). Each sphere could be major (spells up to 7th- the highest divine spell level at the time) or minor (spells up to 3rd).

When I switched to 3e, I was relieved to get the versatility of the 3.x cleric, but at the same time, they are all basically alike, mechanically anyway. They hardly get enough feats to differentiate themselves that way. Maybe something in between would be good.

Ailurus
2007-10-16, 08:42 PM
I'd like to see some more differentiation as well.

One way that might work is just keeping a handful of spells (like cure X wounds and inflict X wounds, dispels, restoration) available to all clerics, and have each domain give 3-4 different spells per level to the cleric, keeping the amount of spells roughly the same, but making clerics of different domains distinct, and different deities especially distinct.

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-16, 08:54 PM
I'd like to see some more differentiation as well.

One way that might work is just keeping a handful of spells (like cure X wounds and inflict X wounds, dispels, restoration) available to all clerics, and have each domain give 3-4 different spells per level to the cleric, keeping the amount of spells roughly the same, but making clerics of different domains distinct, and different deities especially distinct.

I was thinking something more like the PHBII's druid variants, with shifter and caster and companions types.

Maybe call them archetypes, or visages, or faces of the deity. You could be a weak caster, but wear plate, a good buffer, but weak controller, a good controller but weak blaster, etc. Different deities would have better or worse or different visages/faces/whatever.

For instance, Hextor would have some really sick guys in plate (full BAB, perhaps), but his healers wouldn't be all that great. Olidarmma would be sneakers with clerical spells; those in plate might not have a full BAB, but would get sneak attack. And so forth.

martyboy74
2007-10-16, 08:58 PM
That's a really good idea; have a buffing cleric, a holy warrior with a few self-buffs, a healer, an curser (debuffs), and maybe a couple others. Not only would that suitably weaken that cleric, it would also eliminate the paladin, or at least make a PrC.

Draz74
2007-10-16, 09:14 PM
I'd totally be in favor of all of this. Yay for the Ardent, blazing the trail as an example of what a priest character should have been like!

Stormcrow
2007-10-16, 09:36 PM
I'm pretty sure the reason this doesn't exist in core D&D already is because it needs a nigh chapter worth of each class.

Which there is in my setting. But I can understand why they don't want to explode the length of their book with a chapter worth of cleric etc.

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-16, 09:45 PM
I'm pretty sure the reason this doesn't exist in core D&D already is because it needs a nigh chapter worth of each class.

Which there is in my setting. But I can understand why they don't want to explode the length of their book with a chapter worth of cleric etc.

I was thinking tables. You could buy the splatbook w/ fluff later.

GunMage
2007-10-16, 10:08 PM
I'm hoping that 4.0 will give us a cleric that matches the god he worships- why does a worshipper of the god of thieves automatically get heavy plate prof and turn undead?


This gave me a great mental image:Turn Law Enforcement!

Hario
2007-10-16, 10:19 PM
This gave me a great mental image:Turn Law Enforcement!
What about an eastern adventure god, I don't want to see any clerics in 4.0 ed. Turning Japanese.

Jack Mann
2007-10-16, 10:27 PM
Don't forget the god of chastity whose moralistic clerics Turn Tail.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-16, 10:28 PM
Don't forget the god of chastity whose moralistic clerics Turn Tail.

Wouldn't that be the god of cowardice? I'd think the God of Chastity's clerics would tend to Turn Red And Stammer.

Green Bean
2007-10-16, 10:33 PM
Wouldn't that be the god of cowardice? I'd think the God of Chastity's clerics would tend to Turn Red And Stammer.

Nah. The God of Cowardice's clerics Turn Yellow. Now, the clerics of the fertility goddess Turn On.

Tor the Fallen
2007-10-16, 10:36 PM
Don't forget the god of chastity whose moralistic clerics Turn Tail.

I was thinking that would be more along the lines Turn Off.

shaddy_24
2007-10-16, 10:37 PM
I was thinking that would be more along the lines Turn Off.

No, that's the power of the gods of death, disease, and uglyness.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-16, 10:38 PM
Does that mean the clerics of a god of farming would Turn Ip?

Jack Mann
2007-10-16, 10:40 PM
Clerics of the god of slumber Turn In.

Solo
2007-10-16, 10:41 PM
What about an eastern adventure god, I don't want to see any clerics in 4.0 ed. Turning Japanese.

I'd like to Rebuke Japanese myself.

Green Bean
2007-10-16, 10:42 PM
Clerics of the god of slumber Turn In.

Clerics of the Agriculture god Turn Up... :smalltongue:

Okay, that was bad.

Jack Mann
2007-10-16, 10:47 PM
Clerics of the Agriculture god Turn Up... :smalltongue:

Okay, that was bad.

Also late. Check Reel's post above mine.

Of course, then there's Phrunk, the god of sporting events, who loathes mentha plants. Doesn't have too many followers.

After all, who wants to be known as the cleric who can turn a mint?

Reel On, Love
2007-10-16, 10:48 PM
Better than serving the God of Practical Jokes. After all, that means you've got to Turn a Trick.

TheOOB
2007-10-16, 10:50 PM
Considering that they are going to limit the amount of spells all spell casters know, clerics are going to be quite different from eachother by virtue of their spell list alone.

Green Bean
2007-10-16, 10:52 PM
Also late. Check Reel's post above mine.

Curses, foiled again!

Okay, how about: Do the God of Sports' clerics Turn Ament?

Reel On, Love
2007-10-16, 10:57 PM
Curses, foiled again!

Okay, how about: Do the God of Sports' clerics Turn Ament?

Fail again. Jack covered that right in his post.

Jack Mann
2007-10-16, 10:58 PM
Y'know what? Let's just get them all out of the way now.

There's the god of traitors, whose clerics can Turn Coat.

The god of gaolers, whose clerics get Turn Key.

The god of rotating barriers, whose clerics can Turn Style.

The god of toll booths, whose clerics get to Turn Pike.

The god of imitation, whose clerics get to Re Turn.

The god of first aid, whose clerics get to Turn a Kit.

The god of folks, whose clerics can Turn, Turn, Turn.

The god of backtracking, whose clerics make You Turn.

There, did I miss any?

Ralfarius
2007-10-16, 10:59 PM
I might favour a cleric of a baker's god, rolling to make a delicious Turn Over.

Jack Mann
2007-10-16, 11:02 PM
Two more.

Clerics of the God of Audiences make for a good Turn Out.

Clerics of the Cigar God get to In Turn.

Ivius
2007-10-16, 11:13 PM
Clerics of Nerull Turn All Pale.

Clerics of Olidamara Turn a Profit.

TheOOB
2007-10-16, 11:15 PM
Clerics of the god of hip hop use a Turn Table

Fhaolan
2007-10-16, 11:32 PM
Clerics of the god of hip hop use a Turn Table

Win. In so many obscure ways, win.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-16, 11:42 PM
How 'bout the Goddess of Air? She has a real rivalry with the God of Earth. As a result, her clerics leave no stone unTurned.

Let's not forget the more minor deities--take the God of Musicians Named Ike. He's pretty vocal, and hates women--when he sees one, he encourages the nearest cleric--"Ike, Turn 'er!"

And the God of the Music of the Night! To become one of his clerics you have to Turn Your Face Away From The Garish Light Of Day!

TheOOB
2007-10-16, 11:45 PM
Those who worship the lords of the sith Turn to the Dark Side.

Jack Mann
2007-10-17, 01:29 AM
Of course, the awakened remhoraz cleric has shown us how the Worm Turns.

Clerics of the god of fair play Turn About.

Clerics of the god of furniture Turn the Tables.

Clerics of the god of mercy Turn the Other Cheek.

Clerics of the sea god Turn the Tide.

The god of hearing had one of his clerics Turn a Deaf Ear.

The self-loathing undead cleric Turned in his grave.

The agile cleric on the go can Turn on a Dime.

Clerics of the god of lost maps don't know where to Turn.

Inquisitors of the god of persecution Turn the Screw.

Maybe they can all get together at the Turning Point.

EDIT: And now we can see How the World Turns. (Stolen shamelessly from Reel).

Skyserpent
2007-10-17, 01:39 AM
Of course, the awakened remhoraz cleric has shown us how the Worm Turns.

Clerics of the god of fair play Turn About.

Clerics of the god of furniture Turn the Tables.

Clerics of the god of mercy Turn the Other Cheek.

Clerics of the sea god Turn the Tide.

The god of hearing had one of his clerics Turn a Deaf Ear.

The self-loathing undead cleric Turned in his grave.

The agile cleric on the go can Turn on a Dime.

Clerics of the god of lost maps don't know where to Turn.

Inquisitors of the god of persecution Turn the Screw.

Maybe they can all get together at the Turning Point.

EDIT: And now we can see How the World Turns. (Stolen shamelessly from Reel).

Brain... seizing.... from... puns... singular... at least this hasn't turned into a Punpun thread... (**** he can turn too!)

0oo0
2007-10-17, 01:45 AM
The followers of the god of well worded statements Turn a Phrase

Jack Mann
2007-10-17, 01:47 AM
Brain... seizing.... from... puns... singular... at least this hasn't turned into a Punpun thread... (**** he can turn too!)

'E's all powerful, don't ya know, an' immortal too. 'E don't turn just a bit, no sir, 'e turn all!

Newcomers to the thread, it's not too late! Turn Back!

Behold_the_Void
2007-10-17, 01:49 AM
Clerics of the god of fair play Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Turn About.

Sorry, I had to do it.

kamikasei
2007-10-17, 01:54 AM
Clerics of the Goddess of Beauty, of course, Turn Heads.

0oo0
2007-10-17, 01:59 AM
Clerics of ballet gods also Turn Out

Clerics of elderly gods Turn It Down

Clerics of the god of fallacy makes Wrong Turns

Charity
2007-10-17, 02:36 AM
Clerics of the good gods get more turns a day - One good turn deserves another after all.
The clerics of the god of Art compete each year for the Turner prize.
Clerics of the god of thievery have to take turns.
Modern clerics of teh internets have to Turn IP

Starsinger
2007-10-17, 05:04 AM
And of course, Clerics of Vampirism inevitably turn undead...

Mad Mask
2007-10-17, 06:09 AM
And the Clerics of Darkness Turn (off) the Light. Also let's not forget the Clerics of Amnesia, who('s) Turn is it ?

Swooper
2007-10-17, 06:41 AM
This thread is hilarious. :smallbiggrin:

Clerics of the god of anger turn livid.

kamikasei
2007-10-17, 06:44 AM
Overworked dwarven clerics frequently Turn to Drink.

Foolosophy
2007-10-17, 07:05 AM
Clerics of the Gods of Rock TURN IT UP TO 11!

Techonce
2007-10-17, 08:49 AM
INterstingly both the God of Jokers and the God of the oldest profession...

THey both Turn Tricks...

And the God of Seabirds... He just Terns.

Solo
2007-10-17, 09:36 AM
I hate you all.:smallsmile:

The_Werebear
2007-10-17, 09:49 AM
Clerics of Gorgons and Medusae Turn to Stone.

Dirgesingers Tune undead.

KoDT69
2007-10-17, 10:12 AM
Clerics of the Scribe God Turn the Page! :smallwink:

skywalker
2007-10-17, 11:59 AM
And the God of the Music of the Night! To become one of his clerics you have to Turn Your Face Away From The Garish Light Of Day!

The obscurity! Oh, the obscurity! But also awesome. That would be such a small following, though...

In more serious news, the reason why all clerics automatically get turn undead is because turn undead is one of the few effective weapons good parties have against the undead. I once fought a boss battle against some zombies, our cleric had used all her turn attempts on divine meta-magic, and we didn't have a tank, so it got pretty dicey. Quote from the rogue: "Waitaminute, they're immune to sneak attack? AND they have DR5/slashing? Why am I even HERE?!"

hewhosaysfish
2007-10-17, 12:12 PM
Clerics of the Goddess of Spring Growth... Turn Over a New Leaf!

honkuimushi
2007-10-17, 12:38 PM
One of the reasons it took me so long to switch from 2nd to 3rd(3.5 actually) was that I hated what they did to clerics. If anyone's read the 2nd edition Forgotten Realms diety books, those were my ideal for clerics. Each priesthood had unique abilities and sphere access. Those books made me actually want to play a cleric. Then 3rd edition came out and it was back to the plate mail and mace for everyone and everyone gets the same spells. Sure you get a couple of domain spells and maybe a domain ability and can use daggers, but there is very little difference in abilities between a priest of a god of war, a god of thieves, or a god of craft. Even if your get a few more class skills with trickery, you don't have the skill points to really put it to good use.

Compare that to the clerics of Tempus and Mask. Clerics of Tempus could choose 1 non-priestly weapon and got bonuses with it and could get multiple attacks. Clerics of Mask had less armor, but they could use daggers and got some thief abilities. Add to that different sphere access, religion specific spells and granted powers and you had a lot of fun possibilities. Yes, they were powerful, but it got the cleric away from being a healbot and made them the real personification of their god. It's a lot of work, but it's one of the things I miss most about 2nd edition.

kamikasei
2007-10-17, 12:54 PM
No, that's the power of the gods of death, disease, and uglyness.

No, those guys Turn Stomachs.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-17, 01:44 PM
The obscurity! Oh, the obscurity! But also awesome. That would be such a small following, though...


Obscurity? Phantom's only, like, the longest-running musical ever.

TheOOB
2007-10-17, 03:55 PM
Clerics of the god of board games Lose a Turn.

Dausuul
2007-10-17, 03:57 PM
Those who worship the lords of the sith Turn to the Dark Side.

Indeed. In fact, the Sith Lords themselves are obviously clerics. As the Emperor said to Luke in Return of the Jedi:

"If you will not be Turned... you will be Destroyed!"

TheOOB
2007-10-17, 04:20 PM
Clerics of the god of aviation have mastered the Immelman Turn

Mad Mask
2007-10-17, 04:26 PM
And the clerics of the god of cowardice Turn Away.
Wow. This thread really derailed.

shaddy_24
2007-10-17, 07:14 PM
Clerics of the gods of promptness Turn Up On Time.

Clerics of the gods of lawyers don't Turn, they Rebuke.

Clerics of the gods of ineptitude get Turned Down.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-17, 07:36 PM
And clerics of healing gods Turn Iquette, naturally.

Jack Mann
2007-10-17, 08:40 PM
And clerics of healing gods Turn Iquette, naturally.

Too late. I had that on page one.