MIC vs SRD?

[YellowJohn]

At least one item (specifically: parrying weapon) appears in both the MIC (where it is a +2 weapon enhancement) and the SRD (where it costs a flat 8Kgp to add to a weapon).
Both abilities are otherwise identical.

What is the convention on which source takes precedence?

Thanks all 🙂

[JNAProductions]

Whichever one the DM uses more.

Are you the DM? Whichever one seems more fair to you.

[Falontani]

Magic item compendium states that it updates all items within. So +2 of MiC is in use.

[NerdHut]

If you're playing the D20 system, default to the SRD taking precedence.
If you're playing D&D 3.5, default to the PHB and DMG taking precedence.

Both of those things notwithstanding, added sources can make alterations to the the base rules (e.g., swift actions aren't an original part of either 3.5 or the SRD). In that case, it's perfectly acceptable to say the MIC takes precedence in this case, as it alters/updates what came before.

But ultimately, it comes down to what is preferred by whoever is the DM. With so many condradictory and redundant protocols in this game, a lot of it is really just a judgement call by the people running and playing.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'd think the 8k would be adequate for what the enhancement does.

It's essentially defensive precognition (Psion/wilder 1) in an always on package.

By the formula, that'd be power level X manifester level X 2000gp X 2 for being 1 min/lvl. That's a mere 4k.

By the formula for individual bonuses (which is more appropriate anyway) You've got an unusual AC type so certainly not less than bonus squared by 2000gp which -is- 2000gp. Maybe call it 2500 or 3k since insight is pretty rare for AC. Same goes for applying the saving throw bonus so that's another 2k or so.

No matter how you slice it, a flat 8k is pretty well in line with where the cost should be, if it's not a little high even. Making it part of a weapon's effective enhancment calculations, especially at +2, seems a bit excessive.

That said, MIC explicitly says that it's revamping some prices on existing items as well as compiling old items and adding a few new. If you're worried about an "official" ruling then you'd go with the +2. I wouldn't though.

[tiercel]

My general rule for most games, D&D included, is "specific trumps general." (Otherwise, what is specific FOR?)

Of course, that's a general rule itself... ;)

----

As for what Parrying *should* be, that's.. an interesting question. A counterpoint to "Parrying should be cheaper" is to compare it to a Stone of Good Luck -- which retails for 20K. It's not exactly the same, of course, but +1 AC (rare bonus type) vs +1 skills/ability checks (rare bonus type) presumably at least lives in the same postcode...

...of course, one could argue that the Stone is itself overpriced, not least of all because it's slotless.

I suppose the real question is "would a player in my game ever actually consider buying this at this price, given the budget to do so?" or even "am I OK with the PCs finding one of these in a Loot Stash and getting half of whatever I say MSRP is for this item?"

[Kelb_Panthera]

My general rule for most games, D&D included, is "specific trumps general." (Otherwise, what is specific FOR?)

Of course, that's a general rule itself... ;)

----

As for what Parrying *should* be, that's.. an interesting question. A counterpoint to "Parrying should be cheaper" is to compare it to a Stone of Good Luck -- which retails for 20K. It's not exactly the same, of course, but +1 AC (rare bonus type) vs +1 skills/ability checks (rare bonus type) presumably at least lives in the same postcode...

...of course, one could argue that the Stone is itself overpriced, not least of all because it's slotless.

I suppose the real question is "would a player in my game ever actually consider buying this at this price, given the budget to do so?" or even "am I OK with the PCs finding one of these in a Loot Stash and getting half of whatever I say MSRP is for this item?"

The big cost on the luckstone is the rare bonus type to -all- ability and skill checks. There are 31 skills in the PHB alone, not counting knowledge, perform, profession, speak language, or craft. Even at a mere 200 a piece and doubling for being slotless, that's an additional 12,400 gp worth of magic. When you add in the other skills and ability checks 20k isn't all that unreasonable even without the +1 to saves.

[tiercel]

The big cost on the luckstone is the rare bonus type to -all- ability and skill checks. There are 31 skills in the PHB alone, not counting knowledge, perform, profession, speak language, or craft. Even at a mere 200 a piece and doubling for being slotless, that's an additional 12,400 gp worth of magic. When you add in the other skills and ability checks 20k isn't all that unreasonable even without the +1 to saves.

Hmm, that’s a fair point, though for many characters —at least during a standard adventuring day, and especially for nonskillmonkeys — it’s arguable that AC is checked as often as all skill checks combined.

From a PC perspective, I generally expect to +1 stackable bonus to saves to save my bacon more often than that to skills or abilities, i.e. in purely utilitarian terms, the save bonus is generally worth more to me than the rest.

However, I suppose the point is to consider the luckstone from the perspective of it being primarily a skillmonkey item...

[sleepyphoenixx]

However, I suppose the point is to consider the luckstone from the perspective of it being primarily a skillmonkey item...

If all you're after is the save bonus you're better off spending your gold on a spent Luck Blade which also comes with a reroll 1/day (which is imo worth a lot more than the +1 bonus when optimizing saves).
The Luckstone is only really worth it for something like a Factotum who'll make full use of the bonus it grants.

[YellowJohn]

Thanks everyone :-)

Yes I am the DM, but this is a character I'm just making for fun so I am also the player, and don't want my biases taking over.

It felt like MIC should take precedence as the most recently published, but because the SRD is the 'face' D&D shows to the world I figured it was worth asking. Since there's no consensus in that direction, I'll stick with the MIC version even though I agree that the SRD version is more fairly priced.

And as for the 'Luckstone vs Luck Blade' discussion that has sprung up: I usually go with a luckstone, and then load up on a pocketful of Phaant's Luckstones (GWCS) for the rerolls. They're just so cheap, and I was probably going to load up anyway because you know 1/day just won't be enough 😏

[Vaern]

They're not quite the same thing.
The one on the SRD is a psionic weapon enhancement with a manifester level of 5. If you're not playing with psionics in your campaign, you may find that this version is unavailable to you entirely.
The one in MIC is rewritten to be either magical or psionic with a caster level of 15, applying its bonus to all saving throws as opposed to the strictly psionic version whose wording implies that the bonus applies only against incoming powers (and spells, if transparency is in effect).
The one in the SRD would end up being cheaper, but the one in MIC would be more powerful due to its saving throw bonus working against traps and special attacks which the psionic version may not protect against.

The Magic Item Compendium, though, says that it contains material from several other sources that have been revised and repriced with the intention of creating a better overall game experience. If an item or ability appears in both MIC and another sourcebook, I'd generally say to default to the MIC version.

[Telonius]

Sidebar on page 4 of MiC:


YOU CHANGED MY MAGIC ITEMS!
Yes, we did. Chances are, if your character owns a magic item
that doesn’t appear in the Dungeon Master’s Guide, something
about that item—its price, activation, effect, or even its body
slot—is different here from when it was originally published. We
didn’t change these items on a whim—the revisions here are
designed to create a better overall game experience.

If you're using MiC in the game at all, it's generally supposed to take precedence over the original published location. (For Parrying, that original location was the Expanded Psionics Handbook, which is where the SRD/OGL Psionics stuff comes from).