Optimizing Acidic Splatter

[Zombulian]

Alright, so we all know that Reserve Feats are pretty overall meh, and Acidic Splatter is a feat that stands on the more meh side of the spectrum. Requires a touch attack to hit (with *your* BAB??) and at the level you can first get it - and when it’s most relevant - it only has a range of 10ft (with *your* d4 hit dice???).
BUT
Let’s ignore that for a second.
How would one go about optimizing this feat? Reserve Feat powers are Supernatural Abilities, so I don’t think they qualify as Weaponlike Spells for the purposes of feats. What can be done to make it more viable?

Edit: Actually, ignore the idea of viability, because it really just isn’t. What can be done to boost it?

[RaiKirah]

At risk of being somewhat facetious, and certainly being a RAW TO idea:
1) Make a Faustian Pact (FCII) to get a spell slot of any arbitrary level
1.a) Depending on WBL, Race, Templates, etc. this should be equal to your Intelligence score -10, since that's the highest level spell slot you can technically prepare
2) Prepare a Hightened Spell [Acid] spell in your arbitrary slot. Note that you (almost certainly) can't cast this spell, but Acidic Splatter only requires 'available to cast,' not 'able to cast'
3) Profit



Slightly more seriously, the Tome of Magic has a number of Meta-Supernatural feats such as Empower, Maximize, etc.

[Saintheart]

If they're supernatural abilities, Empower Supernatural Ability and Enlarge Supernatural Ability from Tome of Magic apply to them. So once per day you can make your spitballs go further and hit a little harder.

[Lord Haart]

Could you replace it with Dissolving Spittle soulmeld? That's much easier to optimise, in my experience (and can serve as a neat low-level primary attack on any character regardless of class, provided it has Con and free feats to boost it; though classes with precision damage, of course, gain extra mileage out of it).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sneak Attack with it.

Go something like Spellthief 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Unseen Seer 2/ Spellwarp Sniper 5/ Arcane Trickster 8. Take Heighten Spell and Versatile Spellcaster, and the highest level acid spell you have available to cast is one level higher than your two highest level spell slots that are the same level. Also use Scorching Ray with Split Ray and/or Twin Spell (and Invisible Spell, Lesser Rod of Empower, Arcane Thesis) to deliver multiple sneak attacks when you need to hit harder. It takes a full-round action to spontaneously cast it with metamatic, and the Rules Compendium says precision damage can be applied to every attack if it was a full-round action to use it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Be a psychic warrior with the Magic mantle, an [acid] power, and the (Improved) Heighten Power feat, and boost your ML as high as you can get it. (It's not impossible to manifest 9th level powers at level 4 (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=15897.0) or even earlier with a bit of WBL-mancy, so...)

The epic feat Improved Overchannel can triple your ML, and quori power link shards can do the same. And they stack!

Boost your ML as high as you can, and the highest power you can now manifest is equal to (Your ML - 1) / 2. Which, at level 21, is quite substantial.

[Anthrowhale]

If you use Circle Magic, then your Acidic Splatter does 20d6 damage at a range of 100'.

[NontheistCleric]

Be a psychic warrior with the Magic mantle, an [acid] power, and the Heighten Power feat, and boost your ML as high as you can get it. (It's not impossible to manifest 9th level powers at level 4 (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=15897.0) or even earlier with a bit of WBL-mancy, so...)

The epic feat Improved Overchannel can triple your ML, and quori power link shards can do the same. And they stack!

Boost your ML as high as you can, and the highest power you can now manifest is equal to (Your ML - 1) / 2. Which, at level 21, is quite substantial.

Wouldn't work. As per Complete Mage:


A spellcaster who prepares spells each day (such as a wizard) must have an appropriate spell prepared and not yet cast that day...

...A spellcaster who does not need to prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) must know an appropriate spell and must have at least one unused spell slot of that spell's level or higher.

Thus, reserve feats run on either prepared spells or unused spell slots (assuming the caster knows an appropriate spell). A psychic warrior has neither any prepared spells nor any unused spell slots, making the feat useless for them.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Wouldn't work. As per Complete Mage:

Thus, reserve feats run on either prepared spells or unused spell slots (assuming the caster knows an appropriate spell). A psychic warrior has neither any prepared spells nor any unused spell slots, making the feat useless for them.And yet, spell slot to spell point conversion is identical to how power points work. 1 spell point = 1 power point, and +2 sp = +2 pp = +1 spell slot level.

Just do the (quite easy) conversion and you're good. If nothing else, the Magic mantle means you can.

[NontheistCleric]

And yet, spell slot to spell point conversion is identical to how power points work. 1 spell point = 1 power point, and +2 sp = +2 pp = +1 spell slot level.

Just do the (quite easy) conversion and you're good. If nothing else, the Magic mantle means you can.

Not by RAW. The Magic mantle makes your psionics into magic, but your magical power points are not spell slots, nor can your spell-powers be prepared into them.

[Zombulian]

Could you replace it with Dissolving Spittle soulmeld?

No, that’s not what this thread is about. Dissolving Spittle is great though.


Sneak Attack with it.

Go something like Spellthief 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Unseen Seer 2/ Spellwarp Sniper 5/ Arcane Trickster 8. Take Heighten Spell and Versatile Spellcaster, and the highest level acid spell you have available to cast is one level higher than your two highest level spell slots that are the same level. Also use Scorching Ray with Split Ray and/or Twin Spell (and Invisible Spell, Lesser Rod of Empower, Arcane Thesis) to deliver multiple sneak attacks when you need to hit harder. It takes a full-round action to spontaneously cast it with metamatic, and the Rules Compendium says precision damage can be applied to every attack if it was a full-round action to use it.

Mm I had considered both Sneak Attack usage (who doesn’t like swinging for AC 10?) and versatile spellcaster. I think I like this approach best. Gosh though, even with a 9th level slot we’re only talking about a 45’ range. This feat really is terrible.

[RaiKirah]

Gosh though, even with a 9th level slot we’re only talking about a 45’ range. This feat really is terrible.

If you're going Eldritch Theurge you might be able to argue that you can use a Disembodied Hand as the origination point, though then you can also use an Eldritch Blast instead for better range and damage...never mind...

[NontheistCleric]

If you're going Eldritch Theurge you might be able to argue that you can use a Disembodied Hand as the origination point, though then you can also use an Eldritch Blast instead for better range and damage...never mind...

Well, not necessarily better damage, as default Eldritch Blast damage is also terrible. It only goes up to an unmodified maximum of 9d6 itself, and an Eldritch Theurge might have even less.

[RaiKirah]

Well, not necessarily better damage, as default Eldritch Blast damage is also terrible. It only goes up to an unmodified maximum of 9d6 itself, and an Eldritch Theurge might have even less.

Yeah, but there are easy ways and cheap items to improve EB, plus you can add essences and shapes. A chained Eldritch Blast is always going to be better than Acidic Splatter

[NontheistCleric]

Yeah, but there are easy ways and cheap items to improve EB, plus you can add essences and shapes. A chained Eldritch Blast is always going to be better than Acidic Splatter

Again, not necessarily. You might only have one target, if we're assessing the benefits of Eldritch Chain alone. In general, though, you're right, which is why I said 'not necessarily'.

[Troacctid]

Also use Scorching Ray with Split Ray and/or Twin Spell (and Invisible Spell, Lesser Rod of Empower, Arcane Thesis) to deliver multiple sneak attacks when you need to hit harder. It takes a full-round action to spontaneously cast it with metamatic, and the Rules Compendium says precision damage can be applied to every attack if it was a full-round action to use it.
Casting time doesn't matter. If a spell makes multiple attacks in a round, you can still only add bonus damage to the first one, full-round or no.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Casting time doesn't matter. If a spell makes multiple attacks in a round, you can still only add bonus damage to the first one, full-round or no.

Let me introduce you to the Rules Compendium page 42, last bullet point on the page:

A form of attack that enables an attacker to make multiple
attacks during an action other than a full-round action,
such as the Manyshot feat (standard action) or a quickened
scorching ray (swift action), allows precision damage to be
applied only to the first attack in the group.

A full-round action that makes multiple attacks is an exception to the rule you've cited.

[NontheistCleric]

Unfortunately, Biffoniacus_Furiou...


Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster gets a bonus on damage with such spells (including sneak attack damage), the extra damage applies only to the first attack, whether that attack hits or not.

It then goes on to give an example, using scorching ray, no less, of this exact principle.

Like you, I wish it were not so, but it is.

[Troacctid]

👆

The same rule was also reprinted in Rules Compendium, absent the example of course. It's on page 136.

Spells that strike over multiple rounds, like cloud of knives and flame sands, can still get the bonus once per round, though, so there's that.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Spells that strike over multiple rounds, like cloud of knives and flame sands, can still get the bonus once per round, though, so there's that.
And, since these strike as separate actions, each of them can get SA independently of the others. Cloud of knives and holy star would stack, as would multiple copies of cloud of knives, I suppose.

[daremetoidareyo]

1: an illumian could arguably take the axethrower regional feat due to the human subtype, in which case, they might as well base their spell casting on strength and take the correct sigils.

2: point blank shot should work with it, so does far shot extend that range?

3: the ready shot feat from i think heroes of battle or miniature handbook can add 3d6 damage, so if you're going hidden talent syncronicity, or maybe magic mantle, you got yourself a nice little boost there. While you're at it, throw some psionic shot in there for a few more d6s.

4: energy affinity on any prepared caster opens up more [acid] spells by applying the acid energy descriptor to more spells. See snowcasting for some mild abuse.

...

4.1. Talfirian song + snowcasting + energy affinity + sublime chord. Just burn as many bardic musics as you can to get the spell level up early. The problem is that you'll need to interrupt the casting of the spell with the use of the feat. So again, syncronicity will allow you to ready an acidic splatter, then you cast a heightened acid affinity snowcast of whatever spell you want, which makes it a higher level spell that you have "available to cast" which you can then interrupt at the perfect moment between that availability and actually casting it, which will allow you to cast that splatter as a higher level. This will only really work with flaws/dark chaos shuffle/ability to buy feats because of the feat intensity.

[Zombulian]

1: an illumian could arguably take the axethrower regional feat due to the human subtype, in which case, they might as well base their spell casting on strength and take the correct sigils.

2: point blank shot should work with it, so does far shot extend that range?

3: the ready shot feat from i think heroes of battle or miniature handbook can add 3d6 damage, so if you're going hidden talent syncronicity, or maybe magic mantle, you got yourself a nice little boost there. While you're at it, throw some psionic shot in there for a few more d6s.

4: energy affinity on any prepared caster opens up more [acid] spells by applying the acid energy descriptor to more spells. See snowcasting for some mild abuse.

...

4.1. Talfirian song + snowcasting + energy affinity + sublime chord. Just burn as many bardic musics as you can to get the spell level up early. The problem is that you'll need to interrupt the casting of the spell with the use of the feat. So again, syncronicity will allow you to ready an acidic splatter, then you cast a heightened acid affinity snowcast of whatever spell you want, which makes it a higher level spell that you have "available to cast" which you can then interrupt at the perfect moment between that availability and actually casting it, which will allow you to cast that splatter as a higher level. This will only really work with flaws/dark chaos shuffle/ability to buy feats because of the feat intensity.

1. Acidic Splatter isn’t a thrown weapon attack so I don’t see how that’s relevant.

2. PBS wouldn’t work because Acidic Splatter isn’t a weapon, nor is it an SLA so it doesn’t qualify for Weaponlike Spell rules.

3. Ready Shot requires PBS and also specifies “Ranged Weapon” :/

4. Energy Affinity is definitely useful, but how is it different from Energy Substitution?

4.1. is definitely an interesting idea.

[Troacctid]

4. Energy Affinity is definitely useful, but how is it different from Energy Substitution?
The prerequisites are different. Both feats require 5 ranks in Knowledge (arcana), but Energy Substitution requires a feat tax of another metamagic feat, whereas Energy Affinity requires the ability to cast at least one spell each of acid, cold, electricity, and fire. Depending on your class, a tax on your spells known might be easier than a tax on your feats.

The wording of each effect is different. Both say they change the spell to "use the chosen type of energy instead"; however, Energy Substitution specifically calls out that it changes the descriptor, but doesn't mention changing the damage, whereas for Energy Affinity, the reverse is true.

Energy Substitution is also needed as a prerequisite for several other feats, including Born of the Three Thunders, Energy Admixture, Lord of the Uttercold, and Embody Energy, as well as for the Elemental Savant prestige class. Energy Affinity is only a prerequisite for one feat: Sudden Energy Affinity.

[Jack_Simth]

It goes well with Energy Transformation Field spells keyed to beneficial effects (as does any reserve feat or at-will item).

[daremetoidareyo]

It goes well with Energy Transformation Field spells keyed to beneficial effects (as does any reserve feat or at-will item).

with that in mind, is there any race with acid based regeneration abilities baked in?

[Jack_Simth]

with that in mind, is there any race with acid based regeneration abilities baked in?

Clay golem?

[Thurbane]

On the subject of using acidic splatter as a means to deliver touch sneak attacks: there is a ritual in Lords of Darkness (The Ritual of the Dark Flames, p.11) that gives you a 10 foot range touch attack, with a damage of 1d6 negative energy per HD. Each use causes 2 Wis damage. I mean, its shorter range than a higher level casters Acidic Splatter, and the Wis damage is an annoyance (unless you dip Binder, or have that soul meld that heals ability damage), but the base damage is way higher without needing to cheese it. The initial ritual drains 1200 XP, too. The ritual seems to be unclear as to whether this attack is Spell Like or Supernatural, so unsure if SR applies.


Clay golem?

Does that transfer over to Clay Half-golem?

[daremetoidareyo]

Does that transfer over to Clay Half-golem?



I think it's a pun.

Nope looked into it. That's good. The MM2 update booklet puts the template at LA- though. So we might need a work around.

Actually looking at the half golem template, all you have to do is pass that will save and have access and gold to craft wondrous items and magic arms and armor feats. Which is pretty easy on a wizard. Boom, reserve feat healing.

Then, after the feat investment, just start half-goleming your friends and healing them with your acid.

or you could just craft a clay golem and heal it in between battles at no cost to your slots.

[daremetoidareyo]

Arcane ooze from mm3 heals via acid. So maybe master of many forms?