Invocation-only warlocks?

[Belzique]

Next weekend I am playing a rogue/warlock multiclass for a short campaign, and while creating the character I realized something: I am really not interested in their spellcasting, I just want the invocations.

Is there a homebrew that removes pact magic from warlocks and just gives them more invocations known instead?

If not (or perhaps, regardless of whether it exists) I'd like to ask: In your opinion, how many more invocations known should the warlock get in return for not having pact magic?

Edit: They still get cantrips. Just not pact magic spell slots and spells known.

[stoutstien]

Tough one. I think it could be done but will take a while to make sure it's balanced within reason. The big thing is the spell casting is worth about half of the total class and invocations have diminishing returns as you pick the one you want. The Battle Master maneuvers have the same issue.
I'll start working on this but someone will probably beat me who has a better understanding of the class. I haven't seen slot in play past low lv dips.

I like this idea as a whole for a ranger fix actually. A few at will options with enhanced at-will damage and a sprinkling of 1/LR powers.

[Sabeta]

Probably just 1, and maybe two more down the line since you're giving up future spells slots and the high level casting options.
A lot of Invocations are pretty dang potent. Some let you cast spell-worthy effects completely free. That, and being able to do all of the Eldritch Blast things right out of the gate is pretty powerful too.

[stoutstien]

So far I've made a bracket for set ones gained to replace the expanded spell lists from patron. 2 each
-EB is no longer a cantrip but rather a class feature. Frees up a cantrip and limits unintentional combos.
-Agonizing blast should be built into the bass class but moved to lv 5.
-hex is turned into a no lv required invocation. Unsure how to handle upcasting it yet. Probably tie to class level.
The pacts can stay as they are.


Bonus invocation gained at each point spell lv increases or increased spell slot.

Mystic Arcanum Is now 1/SR.

*Id also make more pact/patron specific ones to replace some of the bigger spells that are big parts of them. Celestial needs someway to get revIvify and greater resto as an example.

[JellyPooga]

Next weekend I am playing a rogue/warlock multiclass for a short campaign, and while creating the character I realized something: I am really not interested in their spellcasting, I just want the invocations.

Is there a homebrew that removes pact magic from warlocks and just gives them more invocations known instead?

If not (or perhaps, regardless of whether it exists) I'd like to ask: In your opinion, how many more invocations known should the warlock get in return for not having pact magic?

Edit: They still get cantrips. Just not pact magic spell slots and spells known.

None? It's a short campaign. You're multiclassing. You'll have few enough spell slots as it is. As GM, you'll have to give me better reason than "I don't wanna" to get something for nothing and/or persuade me you aren't intending some kind of system abuse.

Sorry for the cynicism.

[RSP]

You can pretty much already do this. Run Hex and do a few Smites. This essentially takes “spells” out of the equation.

There’s a few other ways you could appear to sidestep spells, depending on your play style, but I’m assuming a Bladelock due to it seems odd to play a non-Bladelock Warlock with the goal of not having spells.

If not a Bladelock, maybe see if the DM will let you Smite off of EB? Shouldn’t break anything (as can already Smite with ranged weapon attacks).

If just trying to get more invocations instead of having slots for mechanical reasons, 1-for-1 probably works fine (such as trade a spell slot for at-will Silent Image should be fine).

[dragoeniex]

Maybe 1 at the start. Wouldn't want this to be even more abusable for multiclassing, so I'd want to see other extras gated behind level milestones like 5, 10, etc.

It's an interesting concept! I'd be curious how a single-classer played with it.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I gotcha covered (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?569312-Spell-Less-Warlock-Redesign).

[Belzique]

I gotcha covered (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?569312-Spell-Less-Warlock-Redesign).

Honestly I was pretty confident I'd seen it somewhere before but I wasn't finding anything. I now realize it was probably yours that I was remembering. Thanks!


You can pretty much already do this. Run Hex and do a few Smites. This essentially takes “spells” out of the equation.

There’s a few other ways you could appear to sidestep spells, depending on your play style, but I’m assuming a Bladelock due to it seems odd to play a non-Bladelock Warlock with the goal of not having spells.

If not a Bladelock, maybe see if the DM will let you Smite off of EB? Shouldn’t break anything (as can already Smite with ranged weapon attacks).

If just trying to get more invocations instead of having slots for mechanical reasons, 1-for-1 probably works fine (such as trade a spell slot for at-will Silent Image should be fine).

The idea was less "I don't want spell slots" and more "I want more invocations, and I'm willing to sacrifice the spell slots for them".


None? It's a short campaign. You're multiclassing. You'll have few enough spell slots as it is. As GM, you'll have to give me better reason than "I don't wanna" to get something for nothing and/or persuade me you aren't intending some kind of system abuse.

Sorry for the cynicism.

I'll be running the PHB warlock during the short campaign, I just wanted a little backstory to explain my interest in this hypothetical.


*interesting points and helpful thoughts*

Thanks everyone that's replied so far, but at this point I think Grod has solved this on my behalf. Feel free to keep the discussion going but I'm going to pour over his homebrew for now :).

[stoutstien]

I gotcha covered (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?569312-Spell-Less-Warlock-Redesign).

Lol. i could have guessed you already had one. This looks alot better than the normal option by far.

[JackPhoenix]

Remember that multiple invocations require you to spend a spell slot to use them.

[MaxWilson]

Next weekend I am playing a rogue/warlock multiclass for a short campaign, and while creating the character I realized something: I am really not interested in their spellcasting, I just want the invocations.

Is there a homebrew that removes pact magic from warlocks and just gives them more invocations known instead?

If not (or perhaps, regardless of whether it exists) I'd like to ask: In your opinion, how many more invocations known should the warlock get in return for not having pact magic?

Edit: They still get cantrips. Just not pact magic spell slots and spells known.

Off the top of my head: as DM, I'd offer you a flat rate of 1 invocation per warlock level in exchange for zero spell slots and no Mystic Arcana. If you want to be a 20th level Warlock with 20 invocations, knock yourself out.

[Grod_The_Giant]

A solid houserule that doesn't involve a total rewrite of the class would be to allow you to choose an Invocation at the cost of, oh, 2 spells known. That way you can customize how much casting you wind up with to taste.

[MaxWilson]

A solid houserule that doesn't involve a total rewrite of the class would be to allow you to choose an Invocation at the cost of, oh, 2 spells known. That way you can customize how much casting you wind up with to taste.

I'd charge spell slots as well as spells known, otherwise this is highly exploitable. Could just take e.g. Armor of Agathys and Danse Macabre and still be a 9th level warlock with 9 invocations(!). Make it 2 effective casting levels instead (so basically 2 fewer spells known and -1 to spell slot level) and you've got yourself a deal.