Artwork for 3PP Books

[Palanan]

This past weekend I visited a comics and gaming store for the first time in a long while, and I was deeply impressed by some of the art in the newer 3PP products.

I’m thinking in particular of the artwork from Things from the Flood, which I’d never heard of before. Much of the art in that book is astonishing for its mood and finesse, and it’s fair to say that it far outclasses anything to be found in the entire 3.5 or Pathfinder run.

For those of you who have worked on 3PP publications, where do you find your artwork and your artists? Things from the Flood sets an impossibly high bar, and even more conventional products like the Numenera corebook have pieces which are lovely and impressive. How do you find artists of this caliber?

[EisenKreutzer]

This past weekend I visited a comics and gaming store for the first time in a long while, and I was deeply impressed by some of the art in the newer 3PP products.

I’m thinking in particular of the artwork from Things from the Flood, which I’d never heard of before. Much of the art in that book is astonishing for its mood and finesse, and it’s fair to say that it far outclasses anything to be found in the entire 3.5 or Pathfinder run.

For those of you who have worked on 3PP publications, where do you find your artwork and your artists? Things from the Flood sets an impossibly high bar, and even more conventional products like the Numenera corebook have pieces which are lovely and impressive. How do you find artists of this caliber?

Umm.. 3PP stands for third party publisher, and means a publisher not directly affiliated with a company publishing for their games under license.
So, in D&D terms Wizards of the Coast is the 1st party publisher, Dragon Magazine was published by Paizo under an official license and was therefore 2nd party, and Mongoose Publishing was a 3PP for D&D 3rd Edition.

Neither Things From The Flood nor Numenera are 3PP. They are 1st party game lines.

In other words, you keep using that word..I don’t think it means what you think it means.

[stack]

A lot of stock art turns up in different books. Publishers buy a stock art pack, then get whatever mileage they can out of it.

Good artists tend to be expensive and have backlogs of work. The best thing is when you can discover an artist that isn't well known yet but does good work, so you can exploit the low cost and short turn-around before the artist becomes known more widely, increasing prices and wait times.

[Ssalarn]

Things From the Flood and Numenera aren't 3pp products, they're 1pp products for their respective companies (and in the case of Numenera it wouldn't surprise me to discover that they actually have a bigger art budget than either WotC or Paizo, since Monte Cook Games' books are all financed through Kickstarter and regularly blow past their funding goals by hundreds of thousands of dollars.) Things From the Flood is actually built around the art of a specific artist, which is part of why it's art is so high quality and consistent throughout.

For actual 3pp companies, Alluria and Lost Spheres probably have the highest quality overall, and both companies honestly probably overspend on art. Art is incredibly expensive and very few 3pp companies can afford to release a book with all-original art unless they budget the art and fund it through a crowdfunding platform like Kickstarter or Game On Tabletop.

If you see a book that has art you really like, look at the artists credited in the book. They'll almost always have multiple social media contacts that are pretty easy to find online, typically a Facebook page for their professional work and a Deviant Art or similar website to show off their portfolios. Those social media sites typically describe the artist's rates and preferred method of contact.

There's also a lot of organic contact that happens when you're active in the industry. Attending conventions and events can be a great way to network and meet people who are looking for business opportunities, especially major events like PAX Dev in Seattle or GenCon in Indianapolis, though almost every gaming convention has prospective artists and freelance designers looking for work.

[Psyren]

It's nice that more and more 3PP independent publishers not creating books for the Big 2-3 TTRPG market leaders are getting better art quality and budgets for their books. I think Ssalarn summed it up best though - while art is indeed a selling point, especially for games that start from that aesthetic and craft mechanics later - it's very easy to overvalue that point. Far more important in my view is filling a niche or void that other publishers (1PP or 3PP) haven't done, or haven't done well. That is what put publishers like DSP and Radiance House on the map, far moreso than pretty pictures. If folks like your concept and are willing to pay for it, you can always get quality art later.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer
Neither Things From The Flood nor Numenera are 3PP. They are 1st party game lines.


Originally Posted by Ssalarn
Things From the Flood and Numenera aren't 3pp products, they're 1pp products….

Point made, thank you.


Originally Posted by stack
The best thing is when you can discover an artist that isn't well known yet but does good work, so you can exploit the low cost and short turn-around before the artist becomes known more widely, increasing prices and wait times.


Originally Posted by Ssalarn
If you see a book that has art you really like, look at the artists credited in the book. They'll almost always have multiple social media contacts that are pretty easy to find online, typically a Facebook page for their professional work and a Deviant Art or similar website to show off their portfolios. Those social media sites typically describe the artist's rates and preferred method of contact.

This is helpful, thanks.


Originally Posted by Ssalarn
…though almost every gaming convention has prospective artists and freelance designers looking for work.

Interesting, didn’t know that. I haven’t been to a gaming convention in a very, very long time.


Originally Posted by Ssalarn
…very few 3pp companies can afford to release a book with all-original art unless they budget the art and fund it through a crowdfunding platform like Kickstarter….

Not having any experience with Kickstarter, this seems like a chicken-and-egg conundrum. Artwork is something that helps drive subscriptions, but how can you commission artwork for Kickstarter without the funding in the first place?

[EisenKreutzer]

Not having any experience with Kickstarter, this seems like a chicken-and-egg conundrum. Artwork is something that helps drive subscriptions, but how can you commission artwork for Kickstarter without the funding in the first place?

The most successful Kickstarters usually start with a bit of investment from the creators before the actual campaign launches, among other things for art assets to use during the campaign.

Edit: When it comes to Things from the Flood, that game was based on the work of the artist, Simon Stålenhagen. The writers worked with him to develop the game, and he provided all the artwork for the project.
Also, swedish rpg publishers are known for their excellent art direction, and most of them spend a fair amount of their budget on artwork.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer
Also, swedish rpg publishers are known for their excellent art direction, and most of them spend a fair amount of their budget on artwork.

Apparently so. I expect you’re familiar with Symbaroum, which also has some excellent artwork. I only heard about it owing to a post here in the Playground a couple months ago, in one of the Pathfinder 2E threads.

[EisenKreutzer]

Apparently so. I expect you’re familiar with Symbaroum, which also has some excellent artwork. I only heard about it owing to a post here in the Playground a couple months ago, in one of the Pathfinder 2E threads.
Symbaroum has amazing artwork! If you haven’t already, check out Mutant: Year Zero and especially Coriolis. Both have fantastic art, but Coriolis stands out as one of the most beautiful rpg books I have ever had the pleasure of owning.

[Psyren]

Interesting, didn’t know that. I haven’t been to a gaming convention in a very, very long time.

Can confirm, even smaller regional or municipal outfits tend to have artists looking for commissions and/or showcasing pieces for sale. The bigger national ones like DragonCon, GenCon or Comicon have entire wings devoted to giving artists places to spread out, pick up work and build their clientele. When you get right down to it, the hobby is fairly insular, so hobby-focused events tend to yield dividends like that, much moreso than just putting your name out there with some banner ads alongside everyone else or something.


Not having any experience with Kickstarter, this seems like a chicken-and-egg conundrum. Artwork is something that helps drive subscriptions, but how can you commission artwork for Kickstarter without the funding in the first place?

The cynic in me would remind you of a couple of old adages, like "It takes money to make money" or "if you wish to borrow a little money, wear rags; if you wish to borrow a great deal of money, wear silk." Think of any idea that got strangers to invest in it, whether that's a big Kickstarter project or a successful pitch from Shark Tank; you need to show them you have either a track record or a working prototype, and both of those require some level of resource commitment on your part before you can get more. This not only shows you have what it takes to deliver a finished product, it shows that you're have some skin in the game yourself and are thus serious, and likely to try and make it work. Spending when you don't even have any guarantees your project will take off hurts, but it's part of the game.