Found a golem manual, should I use it or sell it?

[Yogibear41]

Found a clay golem manual on one of my characters (level 13 paladin of tyranny/bone knight lich) should I sell it or should I use it to make a golem to help guard my phylactery?

Am I correct in thinking that the manual doesn't pay for any of the cost of the golem other than the XP and I would still need to pay the 21,500 gp on top of having the manual or am I mistaken? The manual has a weird line about not including the cost of the body which the MM says is 1,500 gp. So I am confused on whether I would need to pay 1,500 gp or 21,500 gp to make the golem.

If its only 1,500 gp I will definitely do it, if its 21,500 gp I'm not sure if its worth it. Also If I recall there was something in one of the dragon magazines about removing the berserk chance, I will probably go for that option as well for a little bit more cost.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Two things to note:

You do, indeed, have to shell out for the golem's body and the reagents to animate it to the tune of 21500 gold.

Golem Manuals are spell trigger items. Unless the spells contained within are on your spell list, you have to make a dc 20 UMD check for each one.





Given that it costs like it does and I'm actually pretty sure you can't even use the bloody thing, I'd sell it if I was you.

[GrayDeath]

If your aprty contains people who would actually be able to do that via other ways, sell it.

If you cant reliably reach DC 20 UMD, sell it.

Otherwise, use it. ;(

[ericgrau]

If you have a party cleric I'd give it to him. Especially if the party has a mage too. A CR 10 creature for 20,000 gp isn't a bad deal. The problem with most minions is they die too easy, but with DR monsters will almost never overcome, near total magic immunity and ok HP the clay golem survives well. He can be safely included in many mage AOE effects, and even healed or given temp HP with acid AOE. Meanwhile, besides occupying a large front line space, he adds in ok attack bonus, ok damage and reach. If you don't have a party cleric with the right spells on his list, yeah just sell it.

[unseenmage]

CR2*500 is the market price for Constructs in PF. Half that to make em.

So the price isn't awful.

However berserk sucks balls so sell the book.and buy something more useful.

[Sir_Chivalry]

If I may jump in to piggy back on this thread, I'm thinking I'm not clear on what the golem manuals' value is.

My party got one in random treasure last session and the upcoming session likely will see them trying to put it to use.

From what I can see:

-It provides the spells, but if they're not on your class list you're stuck using UMD (with repercussions)
-It reduces the cost of the golem (by the cost of the manual)?

What am I missing? Is my party better simply selling the manual rather than trying to jump through the hoops to get a stone golem?

[Kelb_Panthera]

If I may jump in to piggy back on this thread, I'm thinking I'm not clear on what the golem manuals' value is.

My party got one in random treasure last session and the upcoming session likely will see them trying to put it to use.

From what I can see:

-It provides the spells, but if they're not on your class list you're stuck using UMD (with repercussions)
-It reduces the cost of the golem (by the cost of the manual)?

What am I missing? Is my party better simply selling the manual rather than trying to jump through the hoops to get a stone golem?

It reduces the cost of the golem by providing the XP that the golem's master would othewise have to shell out of his own XP pool. That's it. You still have to pay the full gold cost for making it. It also lets you make one without having three craft feats (wondrous item, arms and armor, and construct).

Other than that, you haven't missed anything. It's up to the PCs to decide if they really want a golem or not but I wouldn't bother most of the time. They're durable but they're mindless. They're only really good if you need an extra front-liner.

[daremetoidareyo]

You should lean on your DM to allow you to make your paladin special mount the golem. Shape it like a horse and exchange the slams for hoof attacks or something. That way you get to put the golem away too

[Yogibear41]

If I end up making it, I'm just going to park it in my church's temple in the room I hid my phylactery in and have it just guard it. I don't plan to actually have it walk around with me. I honestly feel like my phylactery is way less protected than it should be. As my Paladin is a solo character, with a dread necromancer cohort, and my phylactery is protected by my undead leadership followers (a combination of skeletons/zombies and necropolitans of between 1st to 6th level, most are clerics or wizards or dread necromancers)

I have a +10 to my UMD without using any kind of buffing spells. (1 rank and a high charisma score) I can also cast Divine Insight as a 2nd level paladin spell so a DC 20 UMD check should be relatively easy.

[ericgrau]

However berserk sucks balls so sell the book.and buy something more useful.

Oh, I missed the part where berserk is permanent. On average you have about 6 or 7 combats before you lose your golem. Which sounds horrible but 6 or 7 combats is half a lifetime in D&D. So... it's only bad. And for the price 6 or 7 combats isn't enough. So yeah, sell it regardless of circumstances. Clay golems are the only MMI golems with permanent berserk, so any other MMI golem would be well worth it. Flesh golems have berserk but you can regain control.

Commanding him to retreat after 3 rounds might extend the golem to 15 combats (give or take) without losing much effectiveness. That practically is a lifetime in D&D. That might barely be worth it, but it's still iffy. And very luck based. It might actually be 5 combats or it might last the entire campaign, long past the point where he is obsolete. As is other low level gear; that's no worse than any permanent item. But that means the good luck doesn't balance out the bad luck, and the actual average benefit is effectively a bit less than 15 combats. So if all circumstances are perfect and you really love the flavor of having a golem, maybe it's worth a shot.


If I end up making it, I'm just going to park it in my church's temple in the room I hid my phylactery in and have it just guard it. I don't plan to actually have it walk around with me. I honestly feel like my phylactery is way less protected than it should be. As my Paladin is a solo character, with a dread necromancer cohort, and my phylactery is protected by my undead leadership followers (a combination of skeletons/zombies and necropolitans of between 1st to 6th level, most are clerics or wizards or dread necromancers)

I have a +10 to my UMD without using any kind of buffing spells. (1 rank and a high charisma score) I can also cast Divine Insight as a 2nd level paladin spell so a DC 20 UMD check should be relatively easy.

This has the advantage of negating the berserk, just make sure you have a closed and locked door, but also the drawback of being easily overwhelmed by appropriate CR foes. At least he'll hold back any random low level curious hoodlum from possibly stumbling upon your phylactery. Make sure you put something else un-hidden in the room for him to guard, as a decoy to avoid questions from your enemies.

[Yogibear41]

There is an option in one of the dragon magazines to pay a little bit extra gold to completely eliminate the berserk quality from a golem, I just can't remember which one it is.


Its in dragon magazine #327.

[Zaq]

The optimal thing is to sell it.

The wacky thing is to use it.

I’d probably use it just to get a wild story out of the deal.

[Zancloufer]

As far as I can tell you do have to make the Golem body and shell out the ~20k GP in "magical Costs" to make the golem. You also need a caster level of 9. The book does seem to wave class/feat pre-requists as well as providing the EXP and spells required. Not to mention it gives you a +5 to the DC 15 skill check required to make the golem.

I suppose the question is that if you sold it for ~6k GP could you buy something useful? Or are you swimming in gold as is? It might be worth while if GP isn't a huge issue.

[Yogibear41]

I have around 55k gold if I don't sell the book.

Equipment wise I have a +2 Unholy Longsword, a +2 Mithral Shield Gauntlet, +2 Bone Plate Armor (bone knight), +2 Vest of Resistance, and a +6 Enh bonus to Charisma Item, and a handful of non-magical equipment for various other things.

I am a Charisma Focused build with all kinds of X stat (charisma) to Y bonuses.

I usually use my Lich touch attack with a high save DC as a save or die vs anything that is not immune to Paralysis. The sword is a back up weapon, I usually do not fight Good aligned foes. (Found a holy sword and my DM basically let me reverse the rules in the BOED for turning unholy weapons into holy ones so I did that to turn it into an Unholy weapon.)

He is a solo character with a Neropolitan Dread Necromancer cohort.

I was contemplating buying the boots of Teleportation so I would have some sort of way to Teleport. Alternatively I could buy the belt that would let my cohort sacrifice 5th level slots to do it as well, for way cheaper.

Also interested in anything that aids in the creation or control of undead.

Using a few 3rd party materials on the character. I am level 13, have a 44 AC (21 touch) when buffed with spells, 177 hp, +20 fort, +15 ref, +21 will saves, but I hit like a wet noodle if they don't fail the save on the touch attack (DC 25 fortitude)