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stewstew5
2019-10-15, 10:28 AM
One of my favourite rolls in any game is "the big guy", the one who takes all the hits while everyone else shreds their opponents. Now, the resident tanks of D&D are the barbarian, fighter and paladin (or certain clerics), who are obvious choices between high A.C's, High health pools, and various healing/resistances, But the fighter is about attacking fast, the paladin is doing it's own thing, and the barbarian is about big damage. These are all features that are getting in the way of their true tank potential! So, I made this, the colossus, a true, pure, health, AC and saving throw tank.

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1Qjgh3ybS

So, are they too hard to kill, or are they not hard enough to kill given their lack of utility outside of that? how can they be improved, and whats toooo powerful?


(two of the archetypes are unfinished but I consider this a working model)

Frozenstep
2019-10-15, 11:26 AM
I think you're missing something about tank design. It doesn't matter if you can survive the longest in the party, your enemies will simply wipe out your allies and then laugh as you hit them once for less damage then a single attack from any other martial class. You'll die last in a TPK, which isn't great.

See, barbarian is a great tank class. They resist the 3 most common damage types right off the bat. Then they get advantage on strength checks, so they can grapple to prevent enemies from moving easily. Then they can encourage enemies to strike them by using reckless attack, and their armor class is relatively low unless they build for it, encouraging attacks even more.

See, if you want to build a tank, surviving is just step 1. Step 2 is making sure you're actually preventing damage from reaching other party members, either by forcing enemy attention on you (via something like ancestral barbarian's hit-to-impose-disadvantage-on-other), preventing them from being able to damage others (your defender subclass is the only one who does this in any meaningful way), or reducing the damage they do to others (again ancestral barbarian's hit-to-impose, and also spirit shield at 6th level).

The best thing you can do with this class is grab a level of warlock to use eldritch blast. That scales with level, so at least you'll be doing 4d10 damage per turn at tier 4. Still, it just looks utterly boring to play.

stewstew5
2019-10-15, 02:09 PM
I think you're missing something about tank design. It doesn't matter if you can survive the longest in the party, your enemies will simply wipe out your allies and then laugh as you hit them once for less damage then a single attack from any other martial class. You'll die last in a TPK, which isn't great.

See, barbarian is a great tank class. They resist the 3 most common damage types right off the bat. Then they get advantage on strength checks, so they can grapple to prevent enemies from moving easily. Then they can encourage enemies to strike them by using reckless attack, and their armor class is relatively low unless they build for it, encouraging attacks even more.

See, if you want to build a tank, surviving is just step 1. Step 2 is making sure you're actually preventing damage from reaching other party members, either by forcing enemy attention on you (via something like ancestral barbarian's hit-to-impose-disadvantage-on-other), preventing them from being able to damage others (your defender subclass is the only one who does this in any meaningful way), or reducing the damage they do to others (again ancestral barbarian's hit-to-impose, and also spirit shield at 6th level).

The best thing you can do with this class is grab a level of warlock to use eldritch blast. That scales with level, so at least you'll be doing 4d10 damage per turn at tier 4. Still, it just looks utterly boring to play.

Well, this is mostly for personal use (without infuriating my DM), so balance is right now more of a concern than fun. I was considering including a taunt a la compelled duel and just wasn't sure how to incorporate it, als o see cutting board and the defender as a whole. beyond this, is it well-balanced, should there be more, or less, a change?

Maat Mons
2019-10-15, 03:07 PM
Well, part of balance is how good the class is at doing its thing. This class' thing is "taking the hits." And two of the archetypes aren't actually capable of doing that. So I feel that's a pretty big issue that needs to be addressed.

You're not "taking the hits" unless things are hitting you. And you're presenting your enemies with a very straightforward decision. They can hit you and lose, or they can hit your allies and win. They're not going to take the option that makes them lose, so they're not going to hit you.

You need to start by making a base class that can do its thing. Right now, only the defender gets the kind of class features it needs, so poach those for the main class. The taunt idea is good too.

Other things to consider: How do you physically keep enemies away from your allies if you're not fighting in a 5-foot-wide hallway? How do you discourage ranged attackers from targeting the weakest party members? If your ability to defend your allies relies on reactions, how do you deal with multiple attacks in a single turn?

Trandir
2019-10-15, 04:51 PM
I live the concept of the tank. Unfortunately in d&d creatures are intelligent and not AI that attacks the nearest thing so this class is less of a tank and more of a boulder. Impossible to defeat but you can just walk around it and can't do damage.

You should rewrite some passages of the class sometimes they aren't explained very well. Ex: stamina surge doesn't specify if it takes an action and when you recover the "stamina dice"

My personal suggestion to add to the base class:



New feature
Daunting Presence
A colossus isn't a formidable foe but one of the most durable for sure. This doesn't mean that they look any less dangerous than any other warrior. They tower in the battlefield and are at least in apperance most threatening.
Stupid enemies will fall for it every time while the smarter ones see the the colossus for what they are and avoid the confrontation entirely.


From lv 1 when an enemy begins his turn or enter a 15 ft square centered it makes an Int save (DC 8+Proficiency mod+Con mod), on a fail it can't willingly exit your reach untill the end of his next turn and all attacks made by it against any target other than you have disadvantage. Every time a creature under the influence of Dauntig Presence successfully attacks you they can make the save again.
At lv 6 you increase the area to a 25 ft square, it is extended again to 35 ft at lv 12 and to 45 ft at lv 18.


Tempered skin:
First choice at lv 3 and one more at lv 9 and 15.

New feature
Channel Pain:
A colossus can channel his own pain and that of others near him and use it as a weapon.

At lv 13/14 whenever you lose HP you can add that many points to your "pain pool", whenever a creature affected by your Daunting Presence loses HP you can add 1 point to the "pain pool". As an action you can expend any number of pain points to make a melee attack against a creature, if you hit the creature takes psychic damage equal to the expended points. After a rest you loose all unspend pain points.

Tvtyrant
2019-10-15, 04:59 PM
What about adding a lasso ability? Based on net, but instead of DC10 Strength check they have to beat the tanks strength and it works on all sizes. Restrained is a powerful condition, tying them to the tank and making them softer for allies.

4E also had the idea of a grab, which could be used here. Basically restrain one opponent at a time, like grappling but doesn't take away your or their attack actions.

"Combat Pressure: The push of shields and tussle of bodies keeps your opponent from engaging your allies. You may spend your bonus action to give an adjacent opponent you have hit this turn the Restrained Condition until the beginning of your next turn. You gain the Restrained condition until the beginning of your next turn when you use this ability. The chosen enemy can fall prone using their move action on their turn to break this effect."

So you give them and other enemies advantage against you, you have to hit at least once without advantage to use it, and it locks the two together so your allies are safe.

Breccia
2019-10-15, 10:49 PM
[QUOTE=Frozenstep;24204341] It doesn't matter if you can survive the longest in the party, your enemies will simply wipe out your allies/QUOTE]

First of all, the above line is 100% mandatory. "Tank" is a gamey premise, meaning it can definitely be put into D&D, and we've seen it in action. 4th Ed in particular made it a pretty bad idea to turn your back on an active defending fighter. Now, maybe you don't want to replicate that exactly, but something is called for. Perhaps a "Shove of Opportunity" that can separate your allies from your enemies?

Now past that, I'm a little worried about the self-healing feature. Can you burn more than one die at once? If so, you need to clarify the wording because you can get "one use" back by spending a hit die. Also, Second Wind is a Bonus Action. Maybe this should be, too? Also, consider the option to make these temporary hit points. Otherwise you might as well say "You can spend Hit Dice in combat".

stewstew5
2019-10-16, 11:32 AM
I live the concept of the tank. Unfortunately in d&d creatures are intelligent and not AI that attacks the nearest thing so this class is less of a tank and more of a boulder. Impossible to defeat but you can just walk around it and can't do damage.

You should rewrite some passages of the class sometimes they aren't explained very well. Ex: stamina surge doesn't specify if it takes an action and when you recover the "stamina dice"

My personal suggestion to add to the base class:



New feature
Daunting Presence
A colossus isn't a formidable foe but one of the most durable for sure. This doesn't mean that they look any less dangerous than any other warrior. They tower in the battlefield and are at least in appearance most threatening.
Stupid enemies will fall for it every time while the smarter ones see the the colossus for what they are and avoid the confrontation entirely.


From lv 1 when an enemy begins his turn or enter a 15 ft square centered it makes an Int save (DC 8+Proficiency mod+Con mod), on a fail it can't willingly exit your reach until the end of his next turn and all attacks made by it against any target other than you have disadvantage. Every time a creature under the influence of Daunting Presence successfully attacks you they can make the save again.
At lv 6 you increase the area to a 25 ft square, it is extended again to 35 ft at lv 12 and to 45 ft at lv 18.


Tempered skin:
First choice at lv 3 and one more at lv 9 and 15.

New feature
Channel Pain:
A colossus can channel his own pain and that of others near him and use it as a weapon.

At lv 13/14 whenever you lose HP you can add that many points to your "pain pool", whenever a creature affected by your Daunting Presence loses HP you can add 1 point to the "pain pool". As an action you can expend any number of pain points to make a melee attack against a creature, if you hit the creature takes psychic damage equal to the expended points. After a rest you lose all unspent pain points.


What about adding a lasso ability? Based on net, but instead of DC10 Strength check they have to beat the tanks strength and it works on all sizes. Restrained is a powerful condition, tying them to the tank and making them softer for allies.

4E also had the idea of a grab, which could be used here. Basically restrain one opponent at a time, like grappling but doesn't take away your or their attack actions.

"Combat Pressure: The push of shields and tussle of bodies keeps your opponent from engaging your allies. You may spend your bonus action to give an adjacent opponent you have hit this turn the Restrained Condition until the beginning of your next turn. You gain the Restrained condition until the beginning of your next turn when you use this ability. The chosen enemy can fall prone using their move action on their turn to break this effect."

So you give them and other enemies advantage against you, you have to hit at least once without advantage to use it, and it locks the two together so your allies are safe.


[QUOTE=Frozenstep;24204341] It doesn't matter if you can survive the longest in the party, your enemies will simply wipe out your allies/QUOTE]

First of all, the above line is 100% mandatory. "Tank" is a gamey premise, meaning it can definitely be put into D&D, and we've seen it in action. 4th Ed in particular made it a pretty bad idea to turn your back on an active defending fighter. Now, maybe you don't want to replicate that exactly, but something is called for. Perhaps a "Shove of Opportunity" that can separate your allies from your enemies?

Now past that, I'm a little worried about the self-healing feature. Can you burn more than one die at once? If so, you need to clarify the wording because you can get "one use" back by spending a hit die. Also, Second Wind is a Bonus Action. Maybe this should be, too? Also, consider the option to make these temporary hit points. Otherwise you might as well say "You can spend Hit Dice in combat".

These are all great suggestions that give the class more of an identity than I gave it, and keep a lot in line with what my vision was for it.

Edot: I changed it up a bit, opinions now?

sandmote
2019-10-16, 05:15 PM
Having daunting pretense at 1st level is pretty bad dip bait.

Tempered skin looks a bit awkward to use.

Not having extra attack is a bit of an issue. Just don't grant other bonus to weapon attacks; it'll still leave the class less or a damage dealer than other classes.

Indomitable is already the name of a class feature, and granting all saving throws is a monk feature. I'd grant Evasion at 7th level as normal, and then expand it to other saving throws at later levels.

Solid Constitution is a downgrade of the 20th level barbarian feature.

I like the basic concept, but a lot of the details seen to be almost randomly assembled.

stewstew5
2019-10-16, 06:07 PM
Having daunting pretense at 1st level is pretty bad dip bait.

Tempered skin looks a bit awkward to use.

Not having extra attack is a bit of an issue. Just don't grant other bonus to weapon attacks; it'll still leave the class less or a damage dealer than other classes.

Indomitable is already the name of a class feature, and granting all saving throws is a monk feature. I'd grant Evasion at 7th level as normal, and then expand it to other saving throws at later levels.

Solid Constitution is a downgrade of the 20th level barbarian feature.

I like the basic concept, but a lot of the details seen to be almost randomly assembled.

Oof good point, but anything else at 1st level kinda shifts the class's identity

Yea okay

Yea okay

Oh I didn't know, yea I did know this is supposed to tank everything, yea okay

I know, not all capstone are created equal

Trandir
2019-10-16, 06:18 PM
Having daunting pretense at 1st level is pretty bad dip bait.


That is true.

Would it help if it was a 3rd lv feature and at 1st you get the first tempered skin?
This way tho you start to feel the clas from 3rd level really.

sandmote
2019-10-16, 08:25 PM
I didn't have very much time for useful comment previously, so I'm taking a second crack at this:

Any 4 skills doesn't seem reasonable. I'd reduce that to at least 3, and narrow down the options.

I'd have Stamina Surge work in the same manner as Bardic Inspiration. Give it as d6s that refresh on a long rest at 1st level, and then allow them to refresh on a short rest starting at a later level. Also, increasing the size of such a weak feature isn't enough when leveling up by itself.

Tempered Skin starts out really weak and then ends up very strong. I would limit it to resisting nonmagical damage of the two damage types you're allowing at level three. You can then have it apply to magical damage starting at a higher level, and add some other options at an even higher level. I think allowing slashing, piercing or bludgeoning as part of the class step too much on the barbarian's toes.

You only actually need all the core class features by 3rd level anyway, so you can probably have daunting presence at 3rd instead of 1st.

Compilation of my suggestions:

1st: Stamina Surge (d6) Social/Exploration Feature
2nd: Tempered Skin Social/Exploration Feature or Fighting Style
3rd: Daunting Presence, Practice
4th: ASI
5th: Extra Attack, Stamina Surge (d8), Font of Inspiration Knockoff
6th: Tempered Skin Improvement
7th: Evasion, Practice Feature

This should move you closer to the usual power curve of a 5e class, and you can add Magical Tempered Skin and knockoffs of evasion at higher levels. I'm basing the above entirely on the existing class features, although it might not be a bad idea to make Tempered Skin part of an anti-caster subclass, and move the Defender's features to the base class.


Your Subclasses don't seem to have any social features either.

For the Defender, you should probably clarify how shieldbearer works, and Like This is a bit weak for an 11th level feature.

Cutting Board is flavorful, but gimmicky to use, for the same reason the ranger's favored enemy is a bit weak; the DM can deny the feature entirely with the monsters they use. Otherwise ,the Meat and Ironclad's class features are kind of bland. You're also missing the Ironclad's 11th level feature.

My suggestion from the ironclad is minor damage reduction, in the manner of the Heavy Armor Master feat. That feat is noticeably stronger in practice than on paper (at least if your DM understands the action economy), so you can go ahead and make a subclass that stack with it. A lone man standing against the horde is a really cool scenario, and much easier to achieve with damage reduction.

Two subclasses of "guy who takes hits from melee weapons" is enough, and you've got 2 of that in your 2.5 subclasses. Alternate Ideas:


An anti-spellcaster who can cast Counterspell once at 3rd level and multiple times at a higher level. Can be combined with Tempered Skin if you make the Defender's features part of the base class.
Someone who can create areas of wind that interfere with ranged weapon attacks.
Someone who can summon minions with their own limited tanking ability.
A healer subclass, restoring damage it fails to redirect at itself.
A subclass that reduces enemy movement to 0 if they fail a saving throw (or inflicts fear, at higher levels).
A subclass that grants variety by giving features other than tanking ability.

stewstew5
2019-10-18, 08:36 PM
I didn't have very much time for useful comment previously, so I'm taking a second crack at this:

Any 4 skills doesn't seem reasonable. I'd reduce that to at least 3, and narrow down the options.

I'd have Stamina Surge work in the same manner as Bardic Inspiration. Give it as d6s that refresh on a long rest at 1st level, and then allow them to refresh on a short rest starting at a later level. Also, increasing the size of such a weak feature isn't enough when leveling up by itself.

Tempered Skin starts out really weak and then ends up very strong. I would limit it to resisting nonmagical damage of the two damage types you're allowing at level three. You can then have it apply to magical damage starting at a higher level, and add some other options at an even higher level. I think allowing slashing, piercing or bludgeoning as part of the class step too much on the barbarian's toes.

You only actually need all the core class features by 3rd level anyway, so you can probably have daunting presence at 3rd instead of 1st.

Compilation of my suggestions:

1st: Stamina Surge (d6) Social/Exploration Feature
2nd: Tempered Skin Social/Exploration Feature or Fighting Style
3rd: Daunting Presence, Practice
4th: ASI
5th: Extra Attack, Stamina Surge (d8), Font of Inspiration Knockoff
6th: Tempered Skin Improvement
7th: Evasion, Practice Feature

This should move you closer to the usual power curve of a 5e class, and you can add Magical Tempered Skin and knockoffs of evasion at higher levels. I'm basing the above entirely on the existing class features, although it might not be a bad idea to make Tempered Skin part of an anti-caster subclass, and move the Defender's features to the base class.


Your Subclasses don't seem to have any social features either.

For the Defender, you should probably clarify how shieldbearer works, and Like This is a bit weak for an 11th level feature.

Cutting Board is flavorful, but gimmicky to use, for the same reason the ranger's favored enemy is a bit weak; the DM can deny the feature entirely with the monsters they use. Otherwise ,the Meat and Ironclad's class features are kind of bland. You're also missing the Ironclad's 11th level feature.

My suggestion from the ironclad is minor damage reduction, in the manner of the Heavy Armor Master feat. That feat is noticeably stronger in practice than on paper (at least if your DM understands the action economy), so you can go ahead and make a subclass that stack with it. A lone man standing against the horde is a really cool scenario, and much easier to achieve with damage reduction.

Two subclasses of "guy who takes hits from melee weapons" is enough, and you've got 2 of that in your 2.5 subclasses. Alternate Ideas:


An anti-spellcaster who can cast Counterspell once at 3rd level and multiple times at a higher level. Can be combined with Tempered Skin if you make the Defender's features part of the base class.
Someone who can create areas of wind that interfere with ranged weapon attacks.
Someone who can summon minions with their own limited tanking ability.
A healer subclass, restoring damage it fails to redirect at itself.
A subclass that reduces enemy movement to 0 if they fail a saving throw (or inflicts fear, at higher levels).
A subclass that grants variety by giving features other than tanking ability.


What would be good social/exploration features? furthermore, how can I condense cutting board to have it be a half-feature for the subclass, paired with another niche one?

aimlessPolymath
2019-10-18, 09:03 PM
For the Meat, a bonus to intimidation might be appropriate, as would some ability to resist the effects of environmental penalties and tainted/unavailable food (maybe diseases and ingested poisons). Survival proficiency, maybe.
For the Defender, a bonus to all interaction skills against someone you have protected at risk to yourself. Perception proficiency, maybe.
For the Ironhide... proficiency with blacksmith's tools. Unsure what else- the flavor is a bit weak since it's sort of "a guy who wears armor, but more so".

Trandir
2019-10-19, 03:40 AM
What would be good social/exploration features? furthermore, how can I condense cutting board to have it be a half-feature for the subclass, paired with another niche one?

Mmmm social features for a fighter-like class it's hard. You might reconsider some of the subclasses first.

As for the Meat's Cutting Board it's hard to condense. That's a clunky gimmick that needs the extensive explanation to work as intended.

Here is the best I can do:
Cutting Board
When you are dealt slashing or piercing damage by a weapon, including natural ones, you can grapple the creature that made the attack, projectiles are stuck in your body without any check. If the enemy drop their weapon they can escape this grapple but that weapon is still stuck in your body.

New feature (it's a bit silly but I like it)
Blood Hound
At 7th level you are able to detect the blood with ease. You can smell blood in a 30 ft radious, if an invisible creature or a creature you can's see is bleeding you still have disadvantage on attack rolls against them. When you make a survival check to follow a blood trace or the traces of a bloodied creature you have advantage on the check.

The ironhide:
Armor Savant:
Using armor require practice, using it perfectly requires also a depth knowlege of all the different kinds of armor.
From 7th level when you make a history check to determine the origin of a shield or armor you are considered proficient with that skill and you add twice your proficiency bonus to the roll.
Also when you observe a suit of armor or a shield for a minute you can determine if they are enchanted. When you use this feature on the equipment worn by a creature you can also determine his current AC.

For the defender I can think of nothing thematic for it.

sandmote
2019-10-21, 06:29 PM
Yeesh I've been gone a while.


What would be good social/exploration features? furthermore, how can I condense cutting board to have it be a half-feature for the subclass, paired with another niche one? Maybe something about finding traps for exploration? That would certainly feed into the theme of keeping allies from harm.

Trandir's suggestion to simplify cutting board looks okay to me, although it leaves off attacking with such weapons. My wording:


Cutting Board
When you are dealt slashing or piercing damage by a weapon, including a natural weapon, the creature holding the weapon must make a strength save (DC 8 + your constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus) or be grappled by you, as the weapon gets stuck in your body (attacks with thrown weapons or ammunition automatically fail this save). The attacker can repeat this save at the end of its turn, or if able it can end the condition by letting go of the weapon. If the weapon isn't held another creature can then take the weapon, being grappled and making the saving throw until the weapon is dislodged.

Whenever you take the attack option, you can remove weapons and ammunition from yourself (as if taking them from a bag), and are considered proficient when attacking with them before the start of your next turn. When you take a piece of ammunition, it has a 1d4 damage die and gains the Thrown (20/60) property while you are considered proficient.

Not significantly shorter, but I was mostly aiming to simplify the way it works. Doesn't use separate grappling rules, and initially works the same way for natural and other melee attacks. Note also that ammunition technically doesn't have "damage as normal:" damage calculations are determined by the weapon firing the ammunition.

Is everyone else being shown an 11th level Ironhide feature on the homebrewery page? Because I'm not.

stewstew5
2019-10-21, 10:29 PM
Yeesh I've been gone a while.

Maybe something about finding traps for exploration? That would certainly feed into the theme of keeping allies from harm.

Trandir's suggestion to simplify cutting board looks okay to me, although it leaves off attacking with such weapons. My wording:


Cutting Board
When you are dealt slashing or piercing damage by a weapon, including a natural weapon, the creature holding the weapon must make a strength save (DC 8 + your constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus) or be grappled by you, as the weapon gets stuck in your body (attacks with thrown weapons or ammunition automatically fail this save). The attacker can repeat this save at the end of its turn, or if able it can end the condition by letting go of the weapon. If the weapon isn't held another creature can then take the weapon, being grappled and making the saving throw until the weapon is dislodged.

Whenever you take the attack option, you can remove weapons and ammunition from yourself (as if taking them from a bag), and are considered proficient when attacking with them before the start of your next turn. When you take a piece of ammunition, it has a 1d4 damage die and gains the Thrown (20/60) property while you are considered proficient.

Not significantly shorter, but I was mostly aiming to simplify the way it works. Doesn't use separate grappling rules, and initially works the same way for natural and other melee attacks. Note also that ammunition technically doesn't have "damage as normal:" damage calculations are determined by the weapon firing the ammunition.

Is everyone else being shown an 11th level Ironhide feature on the homebrewery page? Because I'm not.

no, the subclasses are incomplete (and being reworked for part 2). That's a good condensation though, thank you. My only problem is the creature becoming grappled instead of the weapon becoming stuck, since you should be able to just let go

sandmote
2019-10-23, 12:19 AM
no, the subclasses are incomplete (and being reworked for part 2). Okay, glad I'm not missing something that was there.


That's a good condensation though, thank you. My only problem is the creature becoming grappled instead of the weapon becoming stuck, since you should be able to just let go
You can do that:

[QUOTE=sandmote;24217243]if able it can end the condition by letting go of the weapon.

I've just reversed the way it works, so getting stuck is the default and letting go is an extra option, rather than losing the weapon as the default and getting stuck otherwise. Mainly I expect the DM running the encounter to think through it the same way a person actually fighting would; first realizing their weapon is stuck, and then letting go. In contrast to automatically letting go of their weapon and then trying to get it back.

It also give a RAW explanation for what happens if, say, a dwarf fighting the Meat fails the save when using their ancestral weapon and refuses to let go. I assume by RAI your description would work the same way as a natural weapon, but I don't actually see any confirmation one way or the other.

stewstew5
2019-10-23, 11:37 AM
[QUOTE=stewstew5;24217688]no, the subclasses are incomplete (and being reworked for part 2). Okay, glad I'm not missing something that was there.


You can do that:



I've just reversed the way it works, so getting stuck is the default and letting go is an extra option, rather than losing the weapon as the default and getting stuck otherwise. Mainly I expect the DM running the encounter to think through it the same way a person actually fighting would; first realizing their weapon is stuck, and then letting go. In contrast to automatically letting go of their weapon and then trying to get it back.

It also give a RAW explanation for what happens if, say, a dwarf fighting the Meat fails the save when using their ancestral weapon and refuses to let go. I assume by RAI your description would work the same way as a natural weapon, but I don't actually see any confirmation one way or the other.

Oh, yes. Can't believe I missed that. Thank you

Ogrillian
2019-11-06, 09:50 PM
I believe a good core skill would be Animate Shield to cover allies instead of you also gives enemies a reason to target you, and works with all subclasses, especially the Meat and a dual shield Wielder.
Also I would put the Defender skill as your core class skill as well