Could an ECL 20 character gain XP in the real world?

[heavyfuel]

We often see threads like "Wizard 20 in the real world" or whatnot, and it got myself thinking: is there any challenge that would give XP to a 20th level character?

According to the Encounter calculator (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/), a single ECL 20 character has a party level of 16, and will get absolutely no XP from anything lower than CR 13.

No existing animal has this high of a CR, and I doubt any human would be as big a threat as a 13th level D&D character. So what's left?

You can assume any class you want, but before you post your "super smart" loophole answer, let's straight up ban calling, summoning, creating, or in any other way bringing creatures from fiction into our world. Plane shift is also banned.

I don't think buffing a creature increases it's CR, but it could be a way. If a Druid casts Bull's Strength on a friendly animal, the animal's CR doesn't increase, I don't think.

Anyway, am anxious to hear your ideas.

[Rebel7284]

I mean, there are always non-combat encounters that can grant XP.
Peace in the middle east, for example, should reward at least some XP if achieved.
As far as combat, yes, I think with enough technology, something like a well-manned army strike would award XP. What's the CR for several waves of drones/helicopters/guided missiles with tank backup? I would assume not terribly low....

[Hand_of_Vecna]

They can encounter groups. Two creatures of the same CR are an encounter 2 CR higher , 4 creatures are 4 higher, etc. You can refuse do for low CR groups, but that's optional.

Also things like tanks are probably best treated has high level enemies rather than as a few low level soldiers with expensive equipment. An Abrams could fight a large number WWII Sherman Tanks and a WWII tanks could easily slaughter high CR animals.

[Katie Boundary]

What's the challenge rating for making a D&D movie that doesn't suck?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

We have armies large enough to make the earth tremble by just walking, armed with bombs that can decimate cities, led by leaders who won't listen to the wisest among us, guided by spies hidden even from their own government, not to mention their giant technological eyes in space.

I'd say there's a few encounters slightly harder than a wild elephant around here...

Sure, these armies aren't all conveniently ransacking harmless villages whenever our wizard feels like a fight, but there's always something worth stopping going on.

[zlefin]

I'm quite confident an aircraft carrier would be tough enough to qualify for at least a bit of xp.

[hamishspence]

We often see threads like "Wizard 20 in the real world" or whatnot, and it got myself thinking: is there any challenge that would give XP to a 20th level character?

According to the Encounter calculator (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/), a single ECL 20 character has a party level of 16, and will get absolutely no XP from anything lower than CR 13.

No existing animal has this high of a CR, and I doubt any human would be as big a threat as a 13th level D&D character.

Some animals require advancement to be properly represented in 3.5. A fully grown Blue whale isn't Gargantuan, the way a regular Baleen Whale is - it's Colossal.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/whale.htm#baleenWhale

So it wouldn't be a 12HD CR6 creature, it could be a 36 HD, CR14 creature.

[MisterKaws]

What's the challenge rating for making a D&D movie that doesn't suck?

There was a D&D-inspired car ad the other day which was goddamn awesome. I was almost sad it only lasted a couple minutes.

[YellowJohn]

There was a D&D-inspired car ad the other day which was goddamn awesome. I was almost sad it only lasted a couple minutes.

Link?
At least let us know enough about the add we can YouTube it for ourselves 😏

[Lleban]

Preventing or surviving a nuclear explosion might give some XP.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, craft or wish yourself up a thought bottle, cast curse of lycanthropy (from Complete Divine) on yourself, gain a permanent negative level, cast greater restoration on yourself to reset your XP to your current level (class level + animal RHD + template LA), store your XP total in your thought bottle, cure yourself of lycanthropy, then restore your XP total.

Voila, as much XP as you want, and not a single summoned or called creature anywhere.

[MisterKaws]

Link?
At least let us know enough about the add we can YouTube it for ourselves 😏

It was a car ad inspired by the original D&D animation. Don't remember the manufacturer.

EDIT: It was brazillian Renault Kwid Outsider.


Preventing or surviving a nuclear explosion might give some XP.

Time stop and Telekinetic Sphere around the bomb.

Now you got a few hours to dispose of the little Megatron ball of mass destruction, though you might be able to prolong that indefinitely by re-casting the sphere at exactly the same point.


Well, craft or wish yourself up a thought bottle, cast curse of lycanthropy (from Complete Divine) on yourself, gain a permanent negative level, cast greater restoration on yourself to reset your XP to your current level (class level + animal RHD + template LA), store your XP total in your thought bottle, cure yourself of lycanthropy, then restore your XP total.

Voila, as much XP as you want, and not a single summoned or called creature anywhere.

That spell was retconned by Spell Compendium to become a Save or Die spell that generates a bunch of tiny were-rats.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That spell was retconned by Spell Compendium to become a Save or Die spell that generates a bunch of tiny were-rats.Which is stupid. A mid level spell that creates sapient creatures whole-cloth?

Also, both spells have flip-flopped back and forth multiple times between the two.

If nothing else, you could simply cast the stupid one and get one of them to infect you, and catch lycanthopy that way. It's one extra step. Maybe two if you have to cast reduce person first.

[Edit] Apparently, dire rats are a real thing: https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/weird-news/worlds-biggest-rat-terrifying-rodent-6885900

[Evil DM Mark3]

About groups of animals, is suggesting 30-50 feral hogs too old of a meme yet?:smallbiggrin:

You know if two characters are on this quest they could just fight each other. XP is for defeating, not killing.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

CR can be toggled upwards if the situation is especially difficult. Add some templates, increase HD as much as you can, utilize groups of critters, buff them to high heaven, debuff yourself, put them in a favorable position and yourself in an unfavorable one. Then set them loose and make them mad.

The above applies to human soldiers, as well.

The real kicker is if you'd actually defeat yourself. Then wouldn't you get the XP for yourself?

[Zancloufer]

Blue Whales IRL would be on the large end of Colossal and could be reasonable started as a 33+ HD whale in both size and CR. There are probably a few other giant sea creatures that would have a CR of 13+ in D&D and exist in reality.

The biggest problem with hoards of critters: by strict RAW you cannot gain XP for killing something with an individual CR/ECL that is 8 or more levels below you. In theory an army of special forces with tanks and plans and boats should be a serious threat to a ECL 20 PC but I don't think any one person would hit CR 13 on their own.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

What if we stat them like a swarm? A swarm of soldiers in tanks, planes and missile silo's. Wouldn't that make them a single creature, rules wise, with a single CR?

Although the bigger question here is probably "why still hunt for XP when you're a 20th level wizard already?"

[hamishspence]

Blue Whales IRL would be on the large end of Colossal and could be reasonable started as a 33+ HD whale in both size and CR. There are probably a few other giant sea creatures that would have a CR of 13+ in D&D and exist in reality.

It's comfortably into Colossal - but maybe not large end. Large end would be the point at where a new size category "ought" to be created - since each size category is double the last, such a sea creature, treated as a quadruped, would need to be 128 ft long "to base of tail" (not to tip, to base) and 250 short tons (average weight, not exceptionally obese weight).

A big blue whale might reach 200 short tons "fattened up for the winter" but 150 would be the average and 100 the "thin weight".

The bowhead is the only other whale in the present day that might scrape into "Colossal by weight" at its fattest - 110 short tons or so - pretty close to the 125 short ton minimum.

If you accept reports of 80 ft Cachalot whales AKA sperm whales, seen in the past, as credible, one of those might scrape into very low-end Colossal as well. A 60 ft sperm whale would be around 56 short tons - that would make an 80ft whale around 132 short tons if it had the same proportions.

[heavyfuel]

Some animals require advancement to be properly represented in 3.5. A fully grown Blue whale isn't Gargantuan, the way a regular Baleen Whale is - it's Colossal.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/whale.htm#baleenWhale

So it wouldn't be a 12HD CR6 creature, it could be a 36 HD, CR14 creature.

That's an interesting thought. Too bad blue whales are already an endangered species, though I suppose some magic could forward their recovery (and subsequent culling).


What if we stat them like a swarm? A swarm of soldiers in tanks, planes and missile silo's. Wouldn't that make them a single creature, rules wise, with a single CR?

Although the bigger question here is probably "why still hunt for XP when you're a 20th level wizard already?"

Now that you mention, Cityscape (I think) has rules for Mobs, which are basically Swarms of creatures too big to be in an actual Swarm.

As to why. Well, obviously to craft magic items and cast spells with XP component :smallbiggrin:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That's an interesting thought. Too bad blue whales are already an endangered species, though I suppose some magic could forward their recovery (and subsequent culling).Well, if you import some dragons to make some half-dragon blue whales...

Ooooor you could just use nonlethal damage while one is at the surface to knock it out, then immediately heal it so it isn't attacked by sharks or whalers while it's unconscious. Or polymorph it into a salmon to defeat it before subsequently dismissing the effect. You don't have to kill one to defeat it.

[dancrilis]

What's the challenge rating for making a D&D movie that doesn't suck?

Both the most recent live action movies (Wrath of the Dragon God, Book of Vile Darkness) were not good, and certainly not something you would see in a cinema - but I don't think they sucked (if you were being charitable you could make a case that they were even ok).

As for ECL 20 getting XP? Sure train up a bunch of people in how to do X and then kill them for the XP when they are powerful enough, it is basically farming.