Reserve Feats - Do they Exist in Pathfinder?

[Dr. Cliché]

Basically the title.

I'm just curious as to whether Reserve Feats exist in some form in Pathfinder, or whether there are any similar feats/abilities.

[Kurald Galain]

First, all cantrips are infinite-use regardless of your class; and second, the Witch class (and a few related archetypes like the Hexcrafter) get infinite-use magical abilities. That should cover most or all practical usages of reserve feats; is there any particular ability you had in mind?

[Dr. Cliché]

First, all cantrips are infinite-use regardless of your class; and second, the Witch class (and a few related archetypes like the Hexcrafter) get infinite-use magical abilities. That should cover most or all practical usages of reserve feats; is there any particular ability you had in mind?

Well, I'm not currently playing a Witch and have no desire to multiclass into such, so I fear that's not going to be an option.

I get that that cantrips are infinite use. The issue is that the damage ones are, well, crap. :smalltongue:

I just wondered if it was possible to get something like Acidic Splatter or Storm Bolt. Basically so I have a magic attack that doesn't require spell slots but which also isn't so pathetic as to not be worth bothering with (e.g. Ray of Frost).

[Psyren]

No, Pathfinder generally de-emphasized at-will abilities and did not port those in from 3.5. Wizards/Sorcerers usually get "3+{casting stat}/day" scaling abilities from their school/bloodline that they can use alongside their spells instead, while clerics get channel and domain powers while druids get wildshape, which should be plenty of ammunition to get you through the day unless your GM is actively trying to get you to run dry.

Of course, nothing is stopping you from porting in Reserve Feats yourself, unless you're playing PFS.

[Silvercrys]

Sorcerer Bloodline powers are the closest thing, I think. You can get some of those with feats, most of the damage ones are x/day though.

There are some ways to get Witch Hexes without actually playing a Witch, too, like the Hexcrafter Magus archetype, and the Kineticist class if you just want a bunch of at-will abilities.

[Kurald Galain]

I just wondered if it was possible to get something like Acidic Splatter or Storm Bolt. Basically so I have a magic attack that doesn't require spell slots but which also isn't so pathetic as to not be worth bothering with (e.g. Ray of Frost).

In that case, the best I can think of is one level of rogue, the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, and Arcane Trickster; to make your cantrips deal comparable damage to a reserve feat.

Or use Preferred Spell plus Scorching Ray. A mid-level caster is just not going to run out of slots on a normal day.

[Dragovon]

RAW they don't exist. That said, I've don't find Reserve Feats to be all the powerful, and allow them in my game...but then I don't limit things from 3.0/3.5/3pp/d20 until I see them being broken for my game..at which point I will retool them or disallow them. Sometimes I even let the player who came up with a cool combo or whatever keep it for the campaign and kill it after (which makes them feel special...but I retool encounters with it considered.)

[Eldonauran]

I've taken cues from D&D 5E and PF2E, and allowed cantrips to automatically scale/heighten with level. Solves that issue right quick.

[Firebug]

I get that that cantrips are infinite use. The issue is that the damage ones are, well, crap. :smalltongue:

I just wondered if it was possible to get something like Acidic Splatter or Storm Bolt. Basically so I have a magic attack that doesn't require spell slots but which also isn't so pathetic as to not be worth bothering with (e.g. Ray of Frost).One of my characters does about 30 average damage per cast on an Empowered Acid Splash...
1 level dip Winter Witch (for Frozen Caress, add +1d4 cold damage as a swift action)
1 level dip Draconic/Orc Crossblooded Sorcerer dip for 2 damage per die (note, draconic only needs the spell to have the particular keyword and applies to all damage dice of the spell, not just the dice that match the keyword)
1 level dip Medium(Archmage) for +2 damage
Acid Flask held in hand(focus) for +1 damage acid damage
False Focus to mimic using Brimstone and an Acid Flask as a material component for another +1 acid damage and causes it to deal damage twice respectively
Empowered for 50% increased damage and the double metamagic reduction traits so its still a cantrip.

(1d3+6 acid + 1d4+2 cold) empowered = 12 average acid, 4.5 average cold initial damage = 16.5 damage
At least the Acid repeats due to using the Acid Flask as a Alchemical Power Component, bringing the total to 28.5 average damage, but some GMs may rule that Archmage only applies to the initial damage(meaning 25.5 average). But also some GMs may rule that the Frozen Caress also repeats bringing it up to 33 average damage.
Potentially also able to use Extend Spell(in a 1st level slot) to add another instance or two of repeated acid damage. GM variance again on whether Extend can apply(as the Acid Flask sort of gives it a duration), and does it increase to 2 rounds (so dealing recurring damage twice) or double the instances of damage (3 rounds).
If you have a lenient GM on all of the points, you could be doing an average of 66 damage as a 1st level spell slot. That probably stacks if you cast it again the next round.
EDIT: Math

[Kurald Galain]

One of my characters does about 30 average damage per cast on an Empowered Acid Splash...
Nice in concept, but that doesn't work.

Winter witch only works on touch spells, which acid splash is not. Multiple alchemical ingredients don't stack, so you can use one of acid flask focus, brimstone component, or acid flask component. And false focus doesn't create alchemical add-ons anyway.

More to the point, you're using one feat, both of your traits, and three dips to accomplish this. Say at level 8, a draconic sorcerer with Scorching Ray deals 36 damage to your 28.5, and can do that every round of combat with slots left over.

[Firebug]

Nice in concept, but that doesn't work.

Winter witch only works on touch spells, which acid splash is not.Ranged Touch not being a touch spell... sure. GM Fiat. The rules overloaded the term 'touch' to refer to an AC component (touch attack) and range of a spell was a great choice for rules.
Just doing a quick internet search (on frozen caress) pulled up several posts where people were saying it doesn't work because "Touch as a range", and more saying "Doesn't specify melee or ranged touch so works". Lets call it GM fiat again.

Multiple alchemical ingredients don't stack, so you can use one of acid flask focus, brimstone component, or acid flask component. And false focus doesn't create alchemical add-ons anyway.Please tell me where it says you cannot use multiple material components on a spell? The closest you have is that "You cannot use the same item as both a focus and a material component at the same time." Well, if I had 2 flasks of acid(without false focus) I would not be using the same item, now would I? I may have an issue about not having a hand free, but Psychic casters are a thing, and Medium can use Archmage to add Acid Splash to their list.
Alchemical Power Components are explicitly used as material components. False Focus allows you to act as if you had the material components if your focus is worth enough.
More to the point, you're using one feat, both of your traits, and three dips to accomplish this. Say at level 8, a draconic sorcerer with Scorching Ray deals 36 damage to your 28.5, and can do that every round of combat with slots left over. More to the point, you are saying that a class that has to wait until 7th level (which scorching ray increases to 2 rays) and has to hit twice is better than something that comes completely online at level 3 can do with a cantrip?

Worst case scenario, no Frozen Caress, no False Focus(lets take Point Blank Shot instead), we're still talking spending 10gp(acid flask as a material component, and not as a focus) for (1d3+6(Crossblooded 2, Brimstone 1, Archmage 2, PBS 1)* 1.5 and (1d3+3)* 1.5 second round (because archmage and PBS may not apply round 2) for an average of 20.5 damage for essentially 1 level dip on your sorcerer example (which if it is focused on Scorching Ray should probably take PBS and Empower anyway, and likely is taking those 2 traits to reduce the cost on Scorching Ray, and should be Crossblooded).

[JNAProductions]

Frozen Caress (Su) Whenever the winter witch casts a touch spell, she can infuse the magic with cold as a swift action. This grants the spell the cold descriptor, and adds 1d4 points of cold damage to the spell’s effect. If the touch spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates this additional cold damage.

This is the ability you speak of, yes?

Because it seems pretty clear to me it's intended to be touch-range spells, NOT touch-attack spells.

[Eldonauran]

This is the ability you speak of, yes?

Because it seems pretty clear to me it's intended to be touch-range spells, NOT touch-attack spells.
Some people will argue until they are blue in the face that Range: 'touch' attacks and ranged 'touch' attacks are all 'touch' attacks, especially when doing so will benefit them mechanically.

[StSword]

Well, I'm not currently playing a Witch and have no desire to multiclass into such, so I fear that's not going to be an option.

I get that that cantrips are infinite use. The issue is that the damage ones are, well, crap. :smalltongue:

I just wondered if it was possible to get something like Acidic Splatter or Storm Bolt. Basically so I have a magic attack that doesn't require spell slots but which also isn't so pathetic as to not be worth bothering with (e.g. Ray of Frost).

Is going third party a problem?

For two feats- Basic Magical Training and Advanced Magical Training, you could get a Destructive Blast that you can use all day every day but it doesn't do too much damage, your caster level will be half your character levels- So 2d6 at 6, 3d6 at 10, 4d6 at 14, etc from the Spheres of Power system.

[The_Snark]

It's not accessible via dip, so this isn't much use if you're looking to help an existing character, but the Marid sorcerer bloodline gives a pretty solid at-will power at level 9: 1d6 damage per two caster levels plus a short blind effect in a 60-foot line.

[Firebug]

It's not accessible via dip, so this isn't much use if you're looking to help an existing character, but the Marid sorcerer bloodline gives a pretty solid at-will power at level 9: 1d6 damage per two caster levels plus a short blind effect in a 60-foot line.I've been tempted to build a character around the level 9 power. But 'only' sinking 3 feats into Improved Eldritch Heritage might be worth it.

[Kurald Galain]

Ranged Touch not being a touch spell...
The ability is called "caress", so it's pretty obvious what it's for. No, touch range is not the same as "requiring an attack against touch AC".


Please tell me where it says you cannot use multiple material components on a spell?
Alchemy manual (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/goods-and-services/herbs-oils-other-substances/), at the beginning of the section brimstone is from, "Reagents do not stack with either themselves or one another".


False Focus allows you to act as if you had the material components if your focus is worth enough.
False focus states it lets you cast a "spell with a material component" (whereas acid splash only has verbal/somatic), without needing that component. It doesn't say anything about optional add-ons unrelated to the spell.


More to the point, you are saying that a class that has to wait until 7th level (which scorching ray increases to 2 rays) and has to hit twice is better than something that comes completely online at level 3 can do with a cantrip?
Oh, a draconic sorcerer easily comes online at level one. The point is that it deals reliably more damage than your triple-class, and its damage scales by level (unlike yours), and it gets its higher-level spells three levels earlier. So unless you're doing a one-shot specifically at level three, the straightforward sorcerer has way more to contribute.

[StSword]

Well on the chance that you aren't limited about 1st party material only, there are other 3pp options that provide options that don't run out after so many uses per day available through feats.

Akashic magic veils, available via feats.

Martial Training gives out access to Path of War disciplines, which you could replenish by spending a full attack action.

One could bind a spirit through amateur pactmaker, gives access to powers that replenish after five rounds.

The Genius Guide to Rune wands and wyrd staves has rules for wands that work as magic weapons for spells, including the equivalent of the elemental enchantments, but they only work for spells that have that have that energy description.

So a +1 caustic rune wand used to cast the cantrip acid splash would do 1d6 plus 1d3 plus 1 in damage.

Or just invest in a spring loaded wrist sheave or two to keep a wand up your sleeves for emergencies.

[Dr. Cliché]

Is going third party a problem?

For two feats- Basic Magical Training and Advanced Magical Training, you could get a Destructive Blast that you can use all day every day but it doesn't do too much damage, your caster level will be half your character levels- So 2d6 at 6, 3d6 at 10, 4d6 at 14, etc from the Spheres of Power system.

Sorry for the late reply but is there any chance you (or someone else) could elaborate on this option?

I like the sound of this idea but the rules are baffling to me.

I looked up the feats in question and they just confused the hell out of me.

(If it matters, I'm currently playing a Lv9 Summoner.)

Basic Magical Training requires that you not have any levels in a Casting Class. Well Summoners are casters so I don't meet the requirements.

However, the feat says that casters should take Extra Magical Talent instead. But Extra Magical Talent says that you can choose an *additional* Sphere of Power. I don't have any Spheres of Power to begin with.

I'm guessing you understand this Spheres of Power thing a lot better than I do so could you explain where I'm going wrong? :smallfrown:

[Psyren]

Spheres of Power is an entirely new magic system that augments or replaces the existing Vancian one. The basics are here (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/using-spheres-of-power) but you'll want your GM on board every step of the way, it's not something where you can just grab a couple of feats without understanding the underlying mechanics of it. I have yet to use it myself in an actual game so I can't provide much more practical aid than that myself.

[StSword]

Sorry for the late reply but is there any chance you (or someone else) could elaborate on this option?

I like the sound of this idea but the rules are baffling to me.

I looked up the feats in question and they just confused the hell out of me.

(If it matters, I'm currently playing a Lv9 Summoner.)

Basic Magical Training requires that you not have any levels in a Casting Class. Well Summoners are casters so I don't meet the requirements.

However, the feat says that casters should take Extra Magical Talent instead. But Extra Magical Talent says that you can choose an *additional* Sphere of Power. I don't have any Spheres of Power to begin with.

I'm guessing you understand this Spheres of Power thing a lot better than I do so could you explain where I'm going wrong? :smallfrown:

I was operating under the assumption that "non caster class" for spheres in power refers specifically to non spherecasting classes.

Which the author of the book confirmed is the correct interpretation here in this forum actually.


@Federebus:
@Crake: You can always be a spellcaster who takes basic magic training to gain spheres, and there are some feats that help with integration of the two systems if you're a cross-class caster, but otherwise yea, the spellcrafting system is the way to go.


If you really like spheres of power, there's even a Bokor (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/bokor) prestige class, available on the wiki here, that act as a mystic theurge for spherecasting and spellcasting.

So that out of the way, did you read the introduction (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/using-spheres-of-power) the wiki about how it works?

If you have any questions after reading that, I'd be happy to answer them as best I can.

Oh there is also another way to combine spheres of power and spellcasting- rituals. In a campaign that includes both, a spherecaster can use a scroll or a spellbook to cast spells ritually.

In fact in a setting book by the same publishers, that's the actual origin of standard pathfinder magic- Spherecasters came first, then someone figured out how to cast rituals hella fast. But since summoners aren't prepared casters that one does you less good.

[Jack_Simth]

Some of the Oracle options give you at-will abilities. A few of them:
The Dual-cursed archetype adds Misfortune Revelation to any mystery, which is an immediate action that forces someone else to reroll a die (limited to 1/day/target).
Apocalypse has Destructive Roots and Doomsayer

[Dr. Cliché]

I was operating under the assumption that "non caster class" for spheres in power refers specifically to non spherecasting classes.

That at least makes more sense.



Which the author of the book confirmed is the correct interpretation here in this forum actually.

I wish he'd instead put it in the actual rules. :smalltongue:

Regardless, I appreciate you clearing this up for me.




If you really like spheres of power, there's even a Bokor (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/bokor) prestige class, available on the wiki here, that act as a mystic theurge for spherecasting and spellcasting.

So that out of the way, did you read the introduction (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/using-spheres-of-power) the wiki about how it works?

I have read that page, yes. However, in spite of it claiming that there were rules for using this system alongside the normal magic system, I couldn't seem to find any such section. :smallfrown:


Anyway, at least in the current campaign, I was really just looking for a pretty minor use of Sphere Magic. Something like the Destructive Heritage Tiefling trait (though I'll have to do it with Basic/Advanced Magical Training now, as I didn't discover SpheresofPower until I'd already made my character).

[StSword]

I wish he'd instead put it in the actual rules. :smalltongue:

Regardless, I appreciate you clearing this up for me.




I have read that page, yes. However, in spite of it claiming that there were rules for using this system alongside the normal magic system, I couldn't seem to find any such section. :smallfrown:


Anyway, at least in the current campaign, I was really just looking for a pretty minor use of Sphere Magic. Something like the Destructive Heritage Tiefling trait (though I'll have to do it with Basic/Advanced Magical Training now, as I didn't discover SpheresofPower until I'd already made my character).

The ultimate edition of spheres of power is being worked on, i would assume that was corrected there.

Well exactly what rules were you looking for? While one can certainly replace standard spellcasters in a campaign, the default assumption is that both exist in a campaign.

For example, depending on tradition, a spherecaster might count as divine, arcane, or a psychic caster, and a sphere effect is counted as a spell level equal to the effective spherecaster level divided by 2. There's even a ritual feat to allow a spherecaster to memorize spells like a vancian caster.

[Dr. Cliché]

Well exactly what rules were you looking for? While one can certainly replace standard spellcasters in a campaign, the default assumption is that both exist in a campaign.

To be honest, the main thing that was tripping me up was the matter you already cleared up - wherein the feats seemed to assume that any and all casters would be using Sphere-magic.

[Hellpyre]

To be honest, the main thing that was tripping me up was the matter you already cleared up - wherein the feats seemed to assume that any and all casters would be using Sphere-magic.

As far as that goes, in the actual books it does clarify the the term casting class means a class with the Casting class feature, as opposed to (for example) the Spells class feature a normal Wizard would have.