ENWorld Zeitgest Feedback Request - Please no Spoilers

[Diarmuid]

My group took a bit of a hiatus over the last couple years due to some odd stuff that went down in our group. We've decided to scrap the games we had going and start fresh and one of the DM's has offered to run Zeitgeist. He's raving about it and the steampunk aspect is certainly interesting.

My concern is that this DM also raved about War of the Burning Sky, and the majority of the group was not terribly impressed. It was very rail-roady, and before we commit to it I'd like to hear from people who have played/run it, preferably if they've also run WotBS and could compare them.

My group made it through 5 modules of WotBS.


Happy to get any general thoughts on Zeitgeist but please try to avoid Spoilers. Thanks in advance!

[Tormyr]

My group took a bit of a hiatus over the last couple years due to some odd stuff that went down in our group. We've decided to scrap the games we had going and start fresh and one of the DM's has offered to run Zeitgeist. He's raving about it and the steampunk aspect is certainly interesting.

My concern is that this DM also raved about War of the Burning Sky, and the majority of the group was not terribly impressed. It was very rail-roady, and before we commit to it I'd like to hear from people who have played/run it, preferably if they've also run WotBS and could compare them.

My group made it through 5 modules of WotBS.


Happy to get any general thoughts on Zeitgeist but please try to avoid Spoilers. Thanks in advance!

To give some context on my opinion: I am in charge of the 5e conversion of WotBS for EN Publishing and have a group currently in chapter 7 of 12. I have not run Zeitgeist but have read through much of it. I run APs because I do not feel I have the time or creativity to fully make an original story (and world) in the lines of a Chris Perkins or Matt Mercer. I prefer longer APs and have also run Age of Worms in 5e (the conversion of which you can find on EN World). In my session 0, I was up front with my players that we were playing an AP. For me, that meant that they would be given a mission, and I as a DM would appreciate it if they went with the mission they were given rather than saying, "No, we want to do something else." They were otherwise free to take care of the mission as they saw fit.

WotBS and Zeitgeist, like a great many adventure paths, were written with the concept of, "This is a series of events that is very probable." They give key events, character motivations, and specific advice to help with avoiding railroading such as alternate ways to handle events. They even have suggestions of how to handle the heroes failing a mission while allowing the overall story to continue. Like many adventure paths (or just published adventures in general), it can be run as a railroad, mined for ideas, or something in between.

Both of these adventure paths are complex to run. They are also longer than many APs released today. I would estimate there are 300-450 hours of play time in each AP. At 3 hours a week, my group is on track to finish WotBS after 2-3 years. There are also lot of NPCs and plot threads to keep track of in the chapters, with several making repeat appearances that can affect the story. Zeitgeist is even more complex than WotBS as more of the NPCs have recurring roles. One of the most interesting things for me was the amount of morally grey NPCs that the heroes had to choose between. The APs are open-ended enough for the heroes to go in different directions and ally with different factions, sometimes while metaphorically holding their nose. These are also not adventures for a group of players that just want to kill things. The heroes' choices matter, and sometimes the best way forward might be to work out a deal rather than fight.

If I was to say there was a significant difficulty with WotBS, it is that the overall story does not start to pay off until the second half of adventure 6, which is a long time. Chapters 1-5 (and a little of 6) are setup. I have not read deeply enough into Zeitgeist to accurately say when the transition happens in Zeitgeist (and you would not want to be spoiled anyway), but my general feeling is that the pacing was a bit better.

Personally, I think that both of these APs are fantastic. They give a solid story while reminding the DM that the adventures are a framework. The stories are laid out in a way that the heroes' choices matter. They are epic and provide suggestions for when players "go off the rails". They are different from other adventures

My group has thoroughly enjoyed WotBS. After seeing some reviews of the 3.5/4e versions, I had concerns going in, especially with the fire forest, and tried to ensure that the players were free to go about the missions as they saw fit. I regularly check in with my group for feedback every few chapters and was surprised when I found out that the fire forest was their favorite chapter. They remarked that while the fire made them keep to the roads, they did not feel railroaded as they had the choice as to which way to go once they hit the crossroads.

I know another group that has had a less successful run through WotBS, at least from a character standpoint. They did not dig investigate the clues in the fire forest and had a "bad" result. In Seaquen, they ignored the requests of a key NPC and decided to go investigate something else. Disaster struck while they were away. However, their story has continued and will be completely different from the one at my table.

tl;dr Zeitgeist is like WotBS but with the dial turned up. However I do not feel the adventures were a railroad as written.

Hopefully my thoughts have helped without giving away any spoilers. I am happy to answer any further questions.