how to gain 20 spellcasting levels in 10 levels, pun-pun

[petermcleod117]

Hello!
I just wanted to share a cheese I discovered using the player's handbook, bastion press's spells and magic, and atlas games' Black Monks of Glastonbury.

the diabolist prestige class is actually open to 1st level level characters off the bat

Admittedly, the Diabolist prestige class is explicitly not for players in the book: the fact that the devil can kill you at any time makes sure of that.

Also note, you don't need very high ability scores to do this.


how to achieve this:
druid gains level 2 spells at 3rd level
sorcerer gains level 2 spells at 4th level
diabolist gains two diabolic gifts each level
diabolic gifts may be of a level up to diabolist class level plus charisma modifier
the level of gift required for spellcasting is the spellcasting levels gained times 4
they cannot stack, but a diabolist could conceivably gain spellcasting levels in two classes at once RAW
charisma 16, wisdom 12, constitution 12, and intelligence 10
as you go, make sure to funnel 4 skill ranks into knowledge arcana and 2 into knowledge nature
also, runemage can transfer all druid and sorcerer spellcasting levels to runemage spellcasting levels.

1st level diabolist give 1 sorcerer level and 1 druid level
2nd level give 1 sorcerer level and 1 druid level
3rd level give 1 sorcerer level and 1 druid level
4th level give 1 sorcerer level and a 4th level spell-like ability
5th level take 1 level in rune mage from spells and magic). gain runecasting, create runestone, and attune rune 1, as well as 3 standard-issue runestones (-1 caster level for spellcasting)
convert all existing spellcasting levels into runemage casting levels, giving access to 8th level runemage spellcasting levels
6th level take another level in diabolist (now level 5). +8 gift. gain 2 levels of runemage spellcasting levels for a total of 10, and the following feats:
attune extra rune, Blood Power, learn rune, eye of knowledge, shadesight, shadehand, shadetongue, and shadecall (all from spells and magic)
7th level take another level in diabolist (now level 6). gain 2 levels in runemage for a total of 12, and blood mastery from the blood mage prestige class
8th level take another level in diabolist (now level 7). gain 2 levels in runemage for a total of 14, and a 7th level spell-like ability
9th level take another level in diabolist (now level 8). gain 2 levels in runemage for a total of 16, and an 8th level spell-like ability
10th level take another level in diabolist (now level 9). gain 4 levels in runemage for a total of 20, and a 9th level spell-like ability

all spell-like abilities may be used at will



i actually designed this path for villains in a world war 2 inspired setting.

[Kalkra]

What diabolist are you talking about here? Because I'm assuming it's not the BoVD one.

[Troacctid]

RAW, none of it comes close to working because non-canonical material isn't considered part of the rules. I mean you could just as easily homebrew a class that gets 9th level spells at ECL 10 and save yourself the extra steps.

[MisterKaws]

You lost me at the second line when you mentioned two third-party books. Of course there's gonna be blatantly broken content in a book developed by someone other than the original designers. WotC at least have a notion of balance(not a very good one, but still) on their own game. Third-party people only have their third-party opinion, and someone who isn't used to the actual community breaking the original content might not have the right idea of what is balanced or not.

[petermcleod117]

What diabolist are you talking about here? Because I'm assuming it's not the BoVD one.

it's from an atlas press adventure module called Black Monks of Glastonbury

[petermcleod117]

You lost me at the second line when you mentioned two third-party books. Of course there's gonna be blatantly broken content in a book developed by someone other than the original designers. WotC at least have a notion of balance(not a very good one, but still) on their own game. Third-party people only have their third-party opinion, and someone who isn't used to the actual community breaking the original content might not have the right idea of what is balanced or not.

As far as I can tell, the runemage is actually balanced; you're just rewarded for splitting your XP between 2 classes for a bit by the prestige class treating those spellcasting levels as if you were advancing in a single class the whole time. a character who took this class would still have the exact same number of spells as if he had spent his XP the whole time advancing in a single class in the end.

It only becomes broken when you combine it with the Black Monks of Glastonbury Diabolist, which is actually designed to be broken in the first place, because it is meant to be used as an opponent with high power but crippling weaknesses (high vulnerability to merely touching holy objects, and their spells and spell-like abilities just don't work on certain people). The cheese here is that it allows you to advance in two spellcasting classes at once, allowing it to meet the requirements for the runemage much more quickly than was intended.

[Troacctid]

It's not even a trick, it's just the basic function of the prestige class as intended. Your effective evil level for choosing gifts is based on your diabolist level plus your Charisma. You get two gifts per level, with choices including an at-will SLA of any spell from any list up to a level equal to your evil level; an amount of gp equal to your evil level x 5000, or the same value in magic items; a number of effective spellcasting levels equal to your evil level ÷ 4; a number of bonus feats equal to your evil level; a stacking bonus to any ability score equal to half your evil level; any special ability of any other class, as long as the level that class gains it at is no higher than half your evil level; or an evil outsider minion with CR less than or equal to your evil level. The class also has full BAB, all good saves, and a d12 hit die.

Congratulations, you broke it, lol.

[ben-zayb]

3rd party material breaking D&D further? I'm shocked.

Next you'll tell me that there's a feat that removes save DC, or a monk ACF that allows you to take epic feats.