Players playing awakened animals

[LegionXIV]

What would your opinions be on someone playing an awakened animal in a campaign? I recently discovered the glorious badger and wondered what the thoughts were on the subject.

I am aware that the badger would not be able to hold normal weapons, I was looking at making a wizard.

[False God]

As long as it fits the theme and the group is cool with it.

[StSword]

Heck, someone produced the Noble Wild books that turns animals into dnd races for 3x and PF.

So there are probably games out there where everyone is an animal.

So yeah, why not?

Presuming it flies by your DM of course.

[Zaq]

I mean, is it that different from playing with a typical druid?

[daremetoidareyo]

I mean, is it that different from playing with a typical druid?

Awakened Badger wizard =/= druid. Druids can't fireball.

And they can't commit to just being a badger

[Zaq]

Awakened Badger wizard =/= druid. Druids can't fireball.

And they can't commit to just being a badger

Meh. Fireball is just flaming sphere with zero stamina. You dern kids have no idea how to take things slow.

Now I want to see an awakened badger with enough shapechanging mojo to assume humanoid form frequently enough to pretend to be a druid who just really likes wild shaping into badgers.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I got no problem with it. Don't think my current GM would either.

There are some obvious issues in both the lack of thumbs and lack of ability to verbalize. Easy way around the former is to simply start at a high enough level that you can already have acquired a pearl of speech or spent a couple skill points to have learned common. The hand thing is a bit tougher (unless you're something simian) but savage species has the gloves of man and the arms of the naga; albeit at some pretty steep costs.

On classes, a lot of the warrior classes can work just fine with claws and bites and Lords of Madness has mouth-pick weapons. Incarnum classes make for an interesting mental image. Casters magnify the problems in the previous paragraph though, wizards and archivists most of all. If you want to be the magical critter, I'd go with psionics.

Worse comes worse, you'll be alright as long as there's somebody with wild-empathy in the party.

[Kaleph]

I got no problem with it. Don't think my current GM would either.

There are some obvious issues in both the lack of thumbs and lack of ability to verbalize. Easy way around the former is to simply start at a high enough level that you can already have acquired a pearl of speech or spent a couple skill points to have learned common. The hand thing is a bit tougher (unless you're something simian) but savage species has the gloves of man and the arms of the naga; albeit at some pretty steep costs.

On classes, a lot of the warrior classes can work just fine with claws and bites and Lords of Madness has mouth-pick weapons. Incarnum classes make for an interesting mental image. Casters magnify the problems in the previous paragraph though, wizards and archivists most of all. If you want to be the magical critter, I'd go with psionics.

Worse comes worse, you'll be alright as long as there's somebody with wild-empathy in the party.

Surrogate spellcasting is probably a better solution to provide the spells' components, but I second psionics - especially ardents. Wis-manifesting, gishy style, no components, and you recover racial HD with practiced manifester.

[daremetoidareyo]

badger hengeyokai is an alternative rules legal option.

[TerrickTerran]

My sister played an awakened cat in a brief game. She was a fun character and would have been nice to have explored it more.

[daryen]

There are some obvious issues in both the lack of thumbs and lack of ability to verbalize.

Awakened animals get one language of the awakening spellcaster's choice. So, that isn't an issue.

That said, no opposable thumbs is an issue. I recommend sorcerer over wizard as a result.

[Asmotherion]

Awakened Badger wizard =/= druid. Druids can't fireball.

And they can't commit to just being a badger
Which is a wise choice. if wizards were Wisdom casters they'd probably remove fireball from their spell lists so that their apprentices wouldn't fall into the trap of (suboptimal) blasting.

But Wizards are int casters so they probably invented fireball just as a test for young Wizards to tech them "read the spell description before you commit time and money to a spell".

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Does a druid from a wild species get an urban shape ability? To turn into crows, rats and humanoids?

[False God]

Does a druid from a wild species get an urban shape ability? To turn into crows, rats and humanoids?

Well, Fangshield Druids get the ability to wildshape into human-like hybrids (not actual hybrids but visually hybrids) and can change their non-dextrous hands into human-like hands when they wild-shape.

I mean...cats with thumbs, *shudder*.

[Malroth]

Got to lv 19 as a Housecat Telepath before I soloed Cuthulu at the Finale.

[ShurikVch]

Dragon #293 already listed ECL for the whole Monster Manual - thus, if you can fix minor problems (like lacking intelligence or mobility), you can play it (Cat is +0)

Also, we already have playable Cheshire Cat (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c), who have no thumbs too

[HouseRules]

Dragon #293 already listed ECL for the whole Monster Manual - thus, if you can fix minor problems (like lacking intelligence or mobility), you can play it (Cat is +0)

Also, we already have playable Cheshire Cat (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c), who have no thumbs too
For the complete list

It is ECL, Dragon #293. Cat, Lizard, Monkey, Rat, Toad all ECL 0. Only animals are viable from the article, everything else was updated in MM 3.5.

Exceptions to general rules means that animals in MM1 are more powerful than others. 3 RHD, even if the first is fraction, is better than many things if optimized well.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Instead of gloves of man or arms of the naga (which are extremely expensive), a pair (pair!) of warforged mighty arms grafts are a mere 1,000 gp. Still more than most 1st level neophytes can afford, but much cheaper than the other options. And they allow you to use warforged hand/arm/ring components!

[LegionXIV]

Sorry for the late replies, I forgot my account password and had a small headache while switching browsers.

So the badger in mind would have had the Awaken spell cast on him, giving him a couple languages and the base INT score needed to start being an actual wizard. I've never heard of people doing it outside of the few stories, and wasn't sure if I'd get a book(or 3) tossed at me.

Now, to find someone else to DM is another matter entirely.

Thanks everyone for your replies!

[ShurikVch]

One more way to play as (Dire) Animal: be of whatever race, join the Sacred Order of Man-Beasts (https://paizo.com/dungeonissues/100/Dungeon100Enhancement.pdf), agree to let them cast Dire Reincarnation on you, die, and you will be reincarnated as some Dire Animal (Dire Badger is on roll 27-39)

[Lord Torath]

Sorry for the late replies, I forgot my account password and had a small headache while switching browsers.

So the badger in mind would have had the Awaken spell cast on him, giving him a couple languages and the base INT score needed to start being an actual wizard. I've never heard of people doing it outside of the few stories, and wasn't sure if I'd get a book(or 3) tossed at me.

Now, to find someone else to DM is another matter entirely.

Thanks everyone for your replies!Couple of questions: How will you carry your spellbook? How will you add spells to your spellbook? Are there feats you can take that eliminate the need for a spellbook? Not having thumbs makes it hard to do some of the fine-motor-control wizardy stuff. Eschew Materials is a thing, right? So at least you don't need to mess with material components. I'm certain the spells you learn will have somatic components modified to your physique. Does this mean you will need to research alternate versions of all new spells you want to learn? No, silly, me, you just take the Still Spell feat.

Can you scribe spell scrolls? Use spell scrolls? Make magic items? Magic wands are probably out, as are rings (unless you can wear them on your wrists as bracelets - which I would allow. But I'm not your DM)

[ShurikVch]

Couple of questions: How will you carry your spellbook? How will you add spells to your spellbook? Are there feats you can take that eliminate the need for a spellbook?The Eidetic Spellcaster ACF (Dragon #357) replaces a Wizard’s familiar and Scribe Scroll with the ability to memorize and prepare spells without a spellbook.
Also, Spell Mastery.


I'm certain the spells you learn will have somatic components modified to your physique. Does this mean you will need to research alternate versions of all new spells you want to learn? No, silly, me, you just take the Still Spell feat.Surrogate Spellcasting feat allow to do verbal and somatic components for nonhumanoids (such as Giant Eagle in example)


Magic wands are probably out, as are rings (unless you can wear them on your wrists as bracelets - which I would allow. But I'm not your DM)According to the Animals (Part Four) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070206a) article, rings are among the suitable equipment for Animal Companions - thus, for Animals in general (at least, presuming sufficient limbs)

[False God]

Sorry for the late replies, I forgot my account password and had a small headache while switching browsers.

So the badger in mind would have had the Awaken spell cast on him, giving him a couple languages and the base INT score needed to start being an actual wizard. I've never heard of people doing it outside of the few stories, and wasn't sure if I'd get a book(or 3) tossed at me.

Now, to find someone else to DM is another matter entirely.

Thanks everyone for your replies!

The Awaken spell gives you 3d6 int. Doesn't say +3d6 int. Just, 3d6 (consider that the standard system is 4d6 drop lowest). Granted, you might be able to get 3 6's out of that, but you're running a lot of risk on having your primary mental score be somewhere between 8 and 14. Meaning you couldn't cast spells, or your spell selection would be very limited and you'd run into a hard cap around level 8 (though if you spent both your score increases you'd raise that cap to 10th). Okay, maybe level 8-10 is high enough. But you're also limiting your spell DCs for a good 10 levels of gameplay.

Just a fair warning, it's entirely possible the process you are proposing would make you unable to actually be a Wizard.

[Tallyn]

The Awaken spell gives you 3d6 int.

What if it were empowered or maximized? :smallwink:

[Kelb_Panthera]

What if it were empowered or maximized? :smallwink:

Or both...

[tyckspoon]

What if it were empowered or maximized? :smallwink:

That works, although if you're looking to play one as a normal PC it's probably more sensible to ignore that part of the spell and just make your stats with whatever your DM normally uses for character generation.

[HouseRules]

Or both...

Why not Intensify?
+7 Spell Level, double dice and maximize them, so you get +36 Int.
Not pathfinder version.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Why not Intensify?
+7 Spell Level, double dice and maximize them, so you get +36 Int.
Not pathfinder version.

Because anyone with any sense pretends the ELH never happened. :smallbiggrin:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A psion with a StP erudite friend (or just the StP erudite itself) who has access to awaken in arcane format (through various means; there are multiple) can Empower as many times as he has psionic foci to spend. Or if he has the dominant ideal ACF, Metapower (Empower + awaken) and awaken on a customized mantle, he can Empower as many times as he wants.