Advice for a Hexblade

[Nero24200]

Hello all

Looking to play a Hexblade in a campaign my friend is about to do. Like the fluff and the feel of the Curse and such, but I have no idea what sort of feats to take. any thoughts?

(Books being used, Core and the Complete Series)

Thanks all

[Xefas]

Could you give a level or range of levels at which you're going to be playing?

[Nero24200]

Sorry, keep forgetting that, we'll likely start around 4th level

[RelentlessImp]

Arcane Strike from CWarrior. No gish is complete without Arcane Strike.

[Kurobara]

Arcane Strike from CWarrior. No gish is complete without Arcane Strike.

Except Hexblades are half-casters like Rangers or Paladins, so they never really get the spell slots to make good use of it.

Anyway, the Dark Companion alternate class feature from PHBII (replaces your familiar) is worth looking into.

[RelentlessImp]

Except Hexblades are half-casters like Rangers or Paladins, so they never really get the spell slots to make good use of it.


They get enough to give an extra "oomph" when it's really needed, though.

[Kurald Galain]

Hexblade suggestions (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=828681).

I should also point out that the Duskblade class (from PHB2) does essentially the same, only more effectively.

[Anxe]

When I played a Hexblade my plan was to take Improved Familiar and Practiced Spellcaster, that way I could get a White Wolf Familiar at level 7. I also planned on entering the Dragon Disciple class because strength bonuses are perfect for a fighter type.

[Person_Man]

Do you want to play a strait Hexblade, or a Hexblade/Class/PrC?

If you want to play a strait Hexblade, I suggest that you play a Small race, like a Strongheart Halfling. Take Improved Familiar and ride a Winter Wolf. Pump your Con to maximize its hit points. Use a lance two handed with the mounted combat feats to get real damage. Buff yourself with spells and share them for free with your mount/familiar (go team Polymorph!)

But I prefer Hexblade just for a dip. For example, Hexblade 4/Fighter 2/Blackguard X with the PHBII variant and a Ring of Evasion. You Saves are sky high, you can pull of some really interesting combos, and you still have the half-caster playing style thanks to your Blackguard spells and Fiendish Servant.

FYI, Dragon Disciple is a well known trap. I'd avoid it.

[Anxe]

How is it a trap?

[Solo]

It just is. :smallsmile:

The hexblade's creator came out with a list of suggestions on how to improve the class a while back. Someone must have a link to it. I suggest you show it to your DM and see if he'll allow the changes.

[Anxe]

Figured I'd post this...
http://www.critical-hits.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/ackbar.jpg

[Kurald Galain]

How is it a trap?

Because the dragon disciple is primarily designed for the "coolness" factor (omg dragon!!!11!") and does not perform particularly well in practice.

It's extremely unsuited as a spellcaster (because its poor progression in that) yet requires spellcasting as a prerequisite.

It's not very well suited to a fighting character because of the spellcasting prerequisite, and average (rather than good) BAB.

The breath weapon damage isn't relevant at the level where you gain it, and only works once per day. Likewise, the claw damage is not relevant.

Wings are cool, but there are easier ways to obtain flight than taking nine levels in an otherwise-poor prestige class.

Hence, trap.

[Anxe]

You get a +8 to strength with a -3 to BAB. You're up 1 there and you get +4 to damage. The HD are d12 and you get a bunch of other little cool things. Then once you've taken the 10th level you can get a Polymorph Any Object cast on you to turn into a real Dragon.

[Solo]

PaO makes everything better...

[Anxe]

My evil plan after that was to get enough attack bonus to take the Dragon Ascendant class. Course we never got past level 3, so none of this came to fruition.

[Person_Man]

How is it a trap?

A Dragon Disciple does not progress your spellcasting. So any spellcasting you've gained from a previous class is essentially worthless by the time you hit mid levels.

It lacks full BAB, which slightly nerfs the effectiveness of any Power Attack combo you might have.

The extra attacks from the natural weapons are very nice. But they require Power Attack (which is nerfed) or some other combo to be useful.

The breath weapon is a joke.

Flight, Blindsense, and stat bonuses are nice, but they're not difficult to get via readily accessible magic spells or items.

The real downside to the PrC is that it lacks any meaningful combo or special ability that you can't just buy with items or easily replicate with spells. Even blatantly sub-optimal builds like a core only Paladin 5/Cleric 15 can do everything a Hexblade 5/Dragon Disciple 10/Anything 5 does, except the Paladin/Cleric does it better.

Don't get me wrong - if you want to be a Dragon Disciple, Hexblade is the best entry. It's just not a particularly good PrC. If you want Draconic fluff, I suggest taking a look at Races of the Dragon. Or just say that you're descended from a dragon, and roleplay it.

[Swooper]

It just is. :smallsmile:

The hexblade's creator came out with a list of suggestions on how to improve the class a while back. Someone must have a link to it. I suggest you show it to your DM and see if he'll allow the changes.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11088256&postcount=16

It's not the post by WotC_Mearls himself, but it's his suggestions someone copied. I use all those as houserules in my games, to make the Hexblade somewhat competent.

Edit: The post in that thread by Kazeofwinds.

[Starbuck_II]

You get a +8 to strength with a -3 to BAB. You're up 1 there and you get +4 to damage. The HD are d12 and you get a bunch of other little cool things. Then once you've taken the 10th level you can get a Polymorph Any Object cast on you to turn into a real Dragon.
Wait, so you''ll use cheese to make it decent? Wow.

[kamikasei]

It seems to me that, wings aside (if you're medium), you don't get anything special from Dragon Disciple that you wouldn't get from taking Half-Dragon as a template. Is the loss of HD so bad that that alternative is not considered at all viable?

[Kurald Galain]

It seems to me that, wings aside (if you're medium), you don't get anything special from Dragon Disciple that you wouldn't get from taking Half-Dragon as a template.

A half-dragon gets 7 more effective class levels than a dragon disciple does.

And, well, if you really want wings, be a half-demon or half-angel.

[Anxe]

Wait, so you''ll use cheese to make it decent? Wow.

What cheese?

[Reel On, Love]

What cheese?

Polymorph Any Object, which is second only to Gate and *maybe* Shapechange for cheesiness among every spell ever published.

Seriously--if you have to use PAO, it doesn't count.
Besides, you could just Polymorph someone into a dragon and then PAO them into a dragon permanently, without them wasting levels on DD, if you're going to do that. Polymorph changes their type.

[Anxe]

So? It's a 9th level spell. It's supposed to be powerful.

[Reel On, Love]

So? It's a 9th level spell. It's supposed to be powerful.

It's an 8th level spell, actually. And yes, it's supposed to be powerful. That doesn't mean it can't be too powerful. Polymorph Any Object is horrifically, vastly overpowered. If you really don't understand why, I'm not sure game balance means anything to you.

[cupkeyk]

It's not all that much of a trap if you take a few level dips to get the +4 str boost if you are building a tripper fighter. But tripper fighters aren't cheesy at all. A Changeling Barb, Duskblade, Fighter, Dragon Disciple, Warshaper will have a 40 foot reach with a spike chain and still only occupy a 5 foot square and will have a decent trip modifier.

[Idea Man]

There was a Dragon magazine that had a bunch of Hexblade feats. Unfortunately, mine are all packed away, so I have no access at the moment.

Sorry! :smalltongue:

[SadisticFishing]

My favorite Hexblade build is (though you have to be evil)

Hexblade 4/Human Paragon 3/Arcane Duelist 2/Blackguard 10/x 1

That last level can be basically anything, as you already have 16 BAB.

Make sure to pick up the feats:

Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Elusive Target
Divine Shield

And any other Divine Feats you think may be useful.

[Tor the Fallen]

My favorite Hexblade build is (though you have to be evil)

Hexblade 4/Human Paragon 3/Arcane Duelist 2/Blackguard 10/x 1

That last level can be basically anything, as you already have 16 BAB.

Make sure to pick up the feats:

Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Elusive Target
Divine Shield

And any other Divine Feats you think may be useful.

You can do better. Much better.

[SadisticFishing]

Twice charisma to AC and saves is a very solid start. You can also afford to take the general Power Attack/Shock Trooper/Leap Attack feats, and be a melee monster. You have Rhino's Rush and Unholy Weapon.

[Tor the Fallen]

I'd rather go pally of evil 5/blck2/hex3/that prc that gives sweet bonus on a lance charge. Pick up ftr as needed for feats, or psywar if you've got the wisdom (which you may).

[Dhavaer]

I'm quite fond of Abjurant Champion for Hexblades. Shame it stops them getting prestidigitation at will.

[serow]

Abjurant Champion doesn't add much but at least it's very easy entry.

[Person_Man]

I'd rather go pally of evil 5/blck2/hex3/that prc that gives sweet bonus on a lance charge. Pick up ftr as needed for feats, or psywar if you've got the wisdom (which you may).

I believe you're looking for a Half-Orc Hexblade 4/Paladin of Tyranny 5/Cavalier 10/Whatever 1. Take Leadership to get a more useful mount. Take Headlong Rush, Spirited Charge, Shock Trooper, and Divine Might. With your Cavalier abilities, you can pretty much kill a Tarrasque with one charge (assuming someone else casts Wish or Miracle after you reduce deal massive damage to it).

Not the funnest build (trust me, it gets boring being a uber charge build) but at least you're a mobile tank with sky high Saves, Mettle, and huge damage output.

[Dhavaer]

Abjurant Champion doesn't add much but at least it's very easy entry.

It adds full caster level and the ability to throw around quickened arcane turmoil and dispel magic. That's plenty, considering it doesn't hurt your BAB.

[Shisumo]

If the PHBII is on the table, I'll add my voice to those strongly recommending the Dark Companion alternative.

One of my all-time favorite D&D character ideas is a hexblade, Garin the Implacable (http://fallingtearpoet.livejournal.com/24355.html). The mechanical exploit there also comes from the PHBII, the Intimidating Strike feat. The key is that being shaken applies basically the same effects as the hexblade curse, allowing them to stack; more importantly, the penalty to saves from being shaken then applies to the saving throw against the hexblade curse, so you've got a better chance of not wasting one of your extremely rare chances to use the curse. Also, it's easier to make a skill-based check keep ahead of CR-equivalent opponents than a level-based one...