Incarnum question re: Shape Soulmeld

[jameswilliamogle]

Does the Shape Soulmeld feat, taken by a normal Meldshaper (Incarnate, Totemist, etc) count against their daily limit of Soulmelds they can shape due to their class level?

If yes, then do non-meldshapers get any use out of it?

[Hyfigh]

I think, but I'll have to research it again when I get home, that this added an additional 'slot' to the meldshaping. I know for sure that it allows non-shapers to be able to shape a soulmeld. I'm pretty confident that it also allows meldshapers to open up soulmelds they did not normally have access to.

[jameswilliamogle]

I think, but I'll have to research it again when I get home, that this added an additional 'slot' to the meldshaping. I know for sure that it allows non-shapers to be able to shape a soulmeld. I'm pretty confident that it also allows meldshapers to open up soulmelds they did not normally have access to.The reason why I ask is that it references the meldshaping rules, which only state this regarding the daily limit on the number of soulmelds you can shape:

"A meldshaper’s level limits the number of soulmelds he can have shaped at any given time."

I couldn't find anything that gives the feat an exception (except that the feat says "If you have essentia, you can invest essentia in the soulmeld as normal," which suggests that you don't have to be in a meldshaping class to use it.

I'd like to think that it gives you an "extra slot" that can only be that soulmeld, but it seems like there's a contradiction, since "You can shape that soulmeld using the normal meldshaping rules (see page 49)," which uses the language above to limit the number of soulmelds daily.

Maybe contradiction is too harsh a word: Sentence 1 doesn't seem to invalidate sentence 2, but makes it unusable to non-meldshapers.

I'm building an Incarnate (3rd level) and wanted to take Shape Soulmeld: Shedu Crown to get 100' telepathy (bound to crown chakra), but I'm not sure its worth using up one of the three soulmelds I can bind daily (definitely worth a feat slot, though).

[Hyfigh]

I'm inclined to agree with your RAW interpretation. Our gaming group does follow the other (probable RAI) interpretation.

I thought for sure that this subject had been covered on the CO boards once and someone provided a FAQ result on the question. My Search-Fu on the FAQ sucks, though, so I'd be hardpressed to find it.

If you can't find anything I'd just say talk the DM into it. It's not game-breaking. It's a reasonable interpetation. There isn't much reason a DM would deny it.

Edit: OK, maybe it wasn't CO boards... (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=7721726&postcount=8)

[jameswilliamogle]

Defintely always a good idea to just go to the DM, but in this case he knows almost nothing about Magic of Incarnum. I'm just trying to self-regulate.

[axraelshelm]

WAIT! ahem...okay you have soulmelds that are shaped. your soulmelding class usealy gives you more options like extra melds +1.
Shape soulmeld allows non soulmelders to use said soulmeld but when you are a class that deals with soulmelds you can have one "when you take the feat" of another soulmeld class one that your class hasnt got.

[jameswilliamogle]

Shape soulmeld allows non soulmelders to use said soulmeld but when you are a class that deals with soulmelds you can have one "when you take the feat" of another soulmeld class one that your class hasnt got.The feat doesn't say that you still get past the limit of soulmelds because of your class level, though (which is zero for non-meldshapers). I think the intention was lost in the writing: that Incarnum Q&A post Hyfigh linked is from the author, and makes the most sense to me (that it does give you an "extra slot").

[axraelshelm]

thats cool if thats the case more power for us the player!

[Indon]

Does the Shape Soulmeld feat, taken by a normal Meldshaper (Incarnate, Totemist, etc) count against their daily limit of Soulmelds they can shape due to their class level?

If yes, then do non-meldshapers get any use out of it?

I think you answer your own question, here: Non-meldshapers can take the feat, and if it didn't let them shape soulmelds in the location then it wouldn't be very useful.

So one way or the other the rules as written need clarification; either non-meldshapers should be barred from that set of Incarnum feats, or they should grant additional Soulmelds.

[Hyfigh]

I think you answer your own question, here: Non-meldshapers can take the feat, and if it didn't let them shape soulmelds in the location then it wouldn't be very useful.

So one way or the other the rules as written need clarification; either non-meldshapers should be barred from that set of Incarnum feats, or they should grant additional Soulmelds.

Which the Q&A from the author that I linked covers. It's not the RAW, but the RAW is obscure and seems to imply what the author says anyway. There's no FAQ on the subject because of the Q&A thread, thus this is about as "official" as the clarification may get. As always, Rule0 FTW.

James, I think you're safe in allowing it to add another "slot" for your character. If it becomes a balance issue I doubt the DM is going to have a problem with you working out an alternative.