help with a 3.5 character build

[samduke]

so as the title suggests I am looking for a few ideas for a character build with the following restrictions
no eberron, dragon magazine, RHD or LA

I have no desire to go full caster anything.

now I need charisma , Intelligence (for leadership, followers & crafting for various reasons - these are required by GM)
all other attributes are not as important.

Thus leading to what classes would work within an 8 level Human build

I have looked at Factotum + Chameleon - seems to fill the base needs and grants some spell casting, though not sure if its the best choice

I have looked at Martial Rogue + Human Paragon + Fighter + Marshal - seems to fill the base needs though not sure if its the best choice

so I look to the playgrounders for thoughts.

[ExLibrisMortis]

CG Silverbrow human bard 2/crusader 1/bard +4/crusader +1
Feats: Dragonfire Inspiration1, Song of the White Raven3, Leadership6, Skill Focus (Diplomacy)human.
(Ideally, you would go bard 4/crusader 1, but in order to take SotWR at level 3, the crusader level needs to move up. This costs you some second-level maneuvers, but it's not too bad.)

Take your 9th level in marshal, and pick up Words of Creation and Draconic Aura as feats.

At level 8, you grant your allies +2 to hit and damage and +2d6 fire damage on each attack.
At level 9, you grant your allies +4 to hit and damage and +4d6 fire damage on each attack, as well as +2 Spot, Listen, Initiative, and they add your Charisma bonus to one set of checks (such as Dexterity checks, which include initiative).

If you can, pick up a vest of legends. At level 10, it increases the bonuses you grant to +6 attack and damage and +6d6 fire damage on each attack. The vest costs 16 000 gp, out of 49 000 gp WBL for a 10th-level character, so it's on the expensive side, but it is very powerful.

[samduke]

CG Silverbrow human bard 2/crusader 1/bard +4/crusader +1


great idea... the TOB has been added to the banhammer.
thanks for the thought

[Falontani]

Human Factotum 1/Incarnate 3/Human Paragon 1/Chameleon

Average intelligence based chameleon with some fun soulmelds

Alternatively
Half elf Paragon 3/Marshal 1/Human Paragon 1/Chameleon

Good at most skills gets.

And the cha heavy one
Half elf Paragon 1/Marshal 1/Incarnate 3/half elf Paragon 2/Chameleon

Heavily invests in cha skills

Human Bard 1 (precocious apprentice + able learner)/Binder 1/Incarnate 3/Chameleon 2/Anima Mage

The: your everything build

[GrayDeath]

If you want high Chrisma and to lead Stuff AND craft Stuff, why not go Warlock?

usually not banned, at Level 12 you canc raft anything, and before that you can get quite some mileage of Inocations and Social Skills.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Let's nail down some prioritization:

Charisma - There are plenty of good builds that can use a high Cha score, but most of them get some kind of spellcasting. Doesn't really have any synergy with high Int, and if not making a spellcaster, you'll need other (physical) stats as well.
Intelligence - There are plenty of good builds that can use a high Int score, but most of them get some kind of spellcasting. Doesn't really have any synergy with high Cha, and if not making a spellcaster, you'll need other (physical) stats as well.
Leadership - This just costs you a feat, but starting at 8th level it needs to be your 6th level feat, unless you're getting it for free because the DM is requiring it.
Followers - These should come from having Leadership, but what are they going to be used for? Do you need an army? Can they be experts who do mundane crafting so you don't need to do that?
Crafting - What do you need to craft? Most craft skills could probably be handled by your followers, or just trained hirelings (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#hirelingTrained) unless it's something highly specialized like Alchemy or Poisonmaking, or requiring a high skill check (that a team of low-level crafters can't stack Aid Another to accomplish). Are you needing to craft magic items, or golems, and if so, what kind?


With the above in mind, I recommend going with something with some spellcasting (i.e. multiclass with a primary spellcasting class), and prioritize either Cha or Int, and make the other no higher than a 14 so your other stats won't suffer. Otherwise you'll have a bad case of MAD and everything your character does will be mediocre, at best.

Have your followers/cohort do as much of the mundane and even magic item crafting as possible. Having spellcasting should automatically qualify you for the 'special power' modifier of Leadership, and you can write your backstory to qualify for the 'fairness and generosity' and even the 'great renown' modifiers as well. With a base of operations, you could start out with a leadership score of 18+ for followers if you max out Cha.

If you need lots of followers who can fight, i.e. an army, then consider going with some kind of necromancer with an army of undead instead. Ask your DM about taking Undead Leadership in Libris Mortis, and make something like a Dread Necromancer 8 which happens to be exactly the level you need to seriously inflate the number of animated dead you can control. A Necropolitan would be a good option as it doesn't have a level adjustment (you would have lost a level becoming a Necropolitan, but you would have been behind a level and gaining more xp per encounter for long enough to likely catch back up if you gained it very early).


For a good aligned character, consider a Sorcadin gish build: Illumian (Naenhoon), Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8, mostly in that order but take the first level of Sacred Exorcist asap. You'll need Combat Casting to meet prerequisites, and probably Arcane Preparation to use sanctified spells like (Greater) Luminous Armor, plus Leadership at 3rd. Always take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (more here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30)) if possible to get two extra feats. You'll want Extend Spell and Persistent Spell by the time you get that Sacred Exorcist level so you can use Naenhoon to persist two buffs each day (Shield and Wraithstrike, or Draconic Polymorph and Wraithstrike). You definitely want Power Attack as well, as you'll be using a two-handed weapon with Wraithstrike.

Ideally you'll want Ancestral Relic, make it an Elvencraft Composite Longbow which counts as a quarterstaff and a bow, it needs to be made masterwork three times but it should be able to have three wand chambers as well. It can be made into three magical weapons, an any type of bow or staff item such as a magical staff with charges of spells and even a custom Runestaff (MIC p224). You can likely put sanctified spells on that and not need to take Arcane Preparation, you can also put Dismissal on that to qualify for Sacred Exorcist (and once that class it gives you Dispel Evil it meets its own prerequisite), otherwise this mostly negates your otherwise limited number of spells known.

Get an Eternal Wand (MIC) of Hound of Doom (CW), anyone who can cast arcane spells can use any eternal wand. For the three wands in your wand chambers you should choose from Benign Transposition, Nerveskitter, and Wings of Cover, and Wraithstrike. Per the Rules Compendium, spell trigger and spell completion items (wands, staffs, scrolls) take the same action to activate as the spell being used, so a wand of a swift or immediate action spell takes that same type of action to activate. You can also cast Wraithstrike with Extend Spell from a 3rd level slot, the PHB rules on spontaneous spells with metamagic only says the casting time is increased if the spell's original casting time is a standard action or longer.

Spell choices should be powerful buffs, a few niche utility spells, and a few powerful crowd controls that hit multiple targets. Shield, Alter Self, Wraithstrike, and (Draconic) Polymorph are among the best buffs for their level. Web, Glitterdust, Sleet Storm, and Solid Fog are some of the best crowd controls, you'll want to maybe use one in the first round then stick to attacking for the rest of the fight.

[samduke]

thanks for the thoughts all I have a good idea with what has been offered up.

[nedz]

Dread Necromancer 8 is the sweat spot for lots of minions.

Now it is a full caster, and your minions are all undead, but it meets your other requirements.