The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas

[Satohika]

No to both.

[hamishspence]

Yes to both.

[theangelJean]

No to both.

[mjasghar]

Your interpretation of the Redcloak hobgoblin City answer is a bit off - Rich points out it’s pretty primitive and requires complete militarism to survive. He also uses the analogy that should someone be happy with one slice when the next person has a full loaf. So it’s not as clear cut as saying Redcloak underplays a good hand.

[Doug Lampert]

Your interpretation of the Redcloak hobgoblin City answer is a bit off - Rich points out it’s pretty primitive and requires complete militarism to survive. He also uses the analogy that should someone be happy with one slice when the next person has a full loaf. So it’s not as clear cut as saying Redcloak underplays a good hand.

He never says it requires complete militarism to survive. He says that complete militarism is why it is able to conquer a much larger human city, that and two high level casters in support.

[137beth]

Include for both.

[Jasdoif]

Alrighty then.

The Giant's Art Background failed to pass; 6 for, 5 against (thread rules require two more in favor to pass)
The Giant Lucked into Doing the Comic Professionally failed to pass; 6 for, 5 against (thread rules require two more in favor to pass)



Entry
Yes Votes
No Votes
Voters


🍌The Giant's Art Background(#2) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-6-68125768)
"...I mostly taught myself how to draw in Illustrator....For writing, I am entirely self-taught."
6
5
Yes Votes: Kish, pearl jam, Gwynfrid, mjp1050, hamishspence, 137beth

No Votes: Precure, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert, Satohika, theangelJean


🍌The Giant Lucked into Doing the Comic Professionally(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-6-68125768)
"...I soon realized that if I accepted the position, there was no way I would be able to continue producing the comic on the side.....I decided to take the risk of turning down the new job...."
6
5
Yes Votes: Kish, pearl jam, Gwynfrid, mjp1050, hamishspence, 137beth

No Votes: Precure, b_jonas, Doug Lampert, Satohika, theangelJean



The Index has been updated with the remaining entries.



And I still don't like how you call for yes/no votes but don't tell whether it's yes to exclude or yes to include the entries.With as many posts as there are that independently(?) use "yes" for include and "no" for exclude, and since only simple additions were up for voting this time, it doesn't seem particularly ambiguous; and given the former I have doubts I'd be able to dissuade "yes/no" votes.

Keeping that in mind...since I'm considering more standardization with regard to votes anyway; what specifically are you proposing?



Your interpretation of the Redcloak hobgoblin City answer is a bit off - Rich points out it’s pretty primitive and requires complete militarism to survive. He also uses the analogy that should someone be happy with one slice when the next person has a full loaf. So it’s not as clear cut as saying Redcloak underplays a good hand.It seems to me that your interpretation is focused on a fragment each of two sentences, without considering the context of each paragraph they're part of...that my summary says that Redcloak is the type to overplay a hand that isn't that good, doesn't inspire much confidence in it either.

In any case, the answer summaries are ephemeral; made for the express purpose of referencing multiple paragraphs of answer in a table-friendlytolerable form. Since they don't influence the entries themselves, I'm not worried about it now that the entry procedure has concluded.

[Peelee]

And I still don't like how you call for yes/no votes but don't tell whether it's yes to exclude or yes to include the entries.

It never even occurred to me until I read this that it was even possible to construe "yes" as "exclude".

[b_jonas]

It never even occurred to me until I read this that it was even possible to construe "yes" as "exclude". There's a stage where some snippets are included by default and Jasdoif asks messages from users who want it to get excluded so that we vote on them.

[Peelee]

There's a stage where some snippets are included by default and Jasdoif asks messages from users who want it to get excluded so that we vote on them.

To the best of my understanding, at every stage of new quotes, the question is, "should this be included?"

[Doug Lampert]

To the best of my understanding, at every stage of new quotes, the question is, "should this be included?"

To the best of my understanding the PM stage is "is this worth voting on or should we just include it. But I think that everything that goes on the forum thread is "Yes=Include" and "No=Exclude".

[Jasdoif]

To the best of my understanding the PM stage is "is this worth voting on or should we just include it.Correct.


But I think that everything that goes on the forum thread is "Yes=Include" and "No=Exclude".Correct...or more broadly: "yes" is a change to the Index, whether a new entry or add a quote into an existing entry; for removing a quote, where this would be unintuitive, I suggest "keep/remove" instead.

This is, of course, all just convention on my part.

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Raise thread! [wiggles fingers]

[Jasdoif]

Well, let's not waste time; new answers post (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329).

And no, I didn't miss number 9: Per Rule B1, we're not including the bit about baseball teams.



#
Question


1
"I've noticed that when someone asks you about your favorite thing you tend to pick something from Good Deeds Gone Unpunished. Is that your favorite story you've written overall?"
(Yes.)


2
"You said that the Twelve Gods are functionally all true neutral, as their worshippers' alignments average out to true neutral. Does this mean that alignment is roughly evenly distributed in OotS-verse? Are most people true neutral and the other alignments are comparatively uncommon? Or (for example) are most people good and there's a few Xykon-sized outliers bringing down the average?"
(Mostly True Neutral.)


3
"What was the purpose of including Tinkertown? Nothing that happened there had anything to do with the gnomes and could have been in Cliffport instead."
(Sidestepping Cliffport plot threads. With gnomes.)


4
"Did Thor basically confirm that the movie theater intermission strip is canon?"
(Yes!)


5
"Was the purpose of the scene with Xykon not being able to taste coffee [that occurs in Start of Darkness] to show that as the moment he became truly irredeemable?"
(Not what I meant.)


6
"Who can break the Fourth Wall? I thought it was only the main heroes but then I realized that the demon roaches do it alot and so does Thor."
(Anyone.)


7
"You have talked in the past about how Teleport and Resurrection make writing stories in a D&D setting difficult. Are there any other spells or character abilities that you find are constantly getting in your way?"
(Yes.)


8
"Do you like Denouements? I know that's an abrupt question and obvious lead in to something else, but some people I'm arguing with are saying one of your longest running subplots isn't having its ending foreshadowed and isn't going to have a denouement after the climax."
(Yes.)


10
"All six members of the order have evolved over time. Have any of them become easier or harder to write because of the ways they changed?"
(Harder more often than easier.)

[Kish]

I think the parenthetical summary of his answer to question 3 would be better as "Gnomes!"

[Fyraltari]

I think all but #6 should be included.

[Kish]

Oh is this meant to call for a vote? Include all.

[Jasdoif]

I think the parenthetical summary of his answer to question 3 would be better as "Gnomes!"A compromise has been implemented:


(Sidestepping Cliffport plot threads. With gnomes.)

[b_jonas]

Ok, let me see these 2023-03 Patreon answers (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329).

Answer 1 on GDGU surprised me because I thought that Rich considered Star of Darkness his finest work so far.

Answer 2 continues the series of explanation of how metaphysics and alignment and religion works in the Stickiverse. This is probably the most important one to include among the quotes.

Answer 4 about the movie strips refers to #301 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) and #1140 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html), so if we include this in the quotes we better link to both.

[Sir_Norbert]

Include all, but put #8 in rot13. No particular reason, I just wanted to have something to say because "include all" is a boring post.

[Metastachydium]

I'm aggressively meh on no. 1 and no. 6 is, like, something we've already known. Other than that, it's a quite unsurprising include all for me.

[Fyraltari]

Answer 1 on GDGU surprised me because I thought that Rich considered Star of Darkness his finest work so far.

had he done GGDU (or just HtPghS) yet when he said that?

[b_jonas]

had he done GGDU (or just HtPghS) yet when he said that? No, the banana list says that he said that in 2015, while GDGU was published in in 2018.

[Metastachydium]

Meanwhile, is answer no. 10 positive confirmation that Minrah is Durkon's cohort? CLG's been treating that as a fact for a while now, but I think the first time it was brought up, it wasn't much more than a "one can conceive her as something like" sort of deal.

[Fyraltari]

No, the banana list says that he said that in 2015, while GDGU was published in in 2018.

Well, there you go. SoD was his favourite work he'd ever done until he made one he liked better. As long as he's not retired that kind of statement is tentative by default.

[Precure]

Aww, she really loved him. Who's Kohaku (CE) though?

Include all.

[Kish]

A Good Deeds Gone Unpunished character.

[Jasdoif]

Hmm, the tables don't look as fancy when there's such a strong consensus....



#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
"I've noticed that when someone asks you about your favorite thing you tend to pick something from Good Deeds Gone Unpunished. Is that your favorite story you've written overall?"
(Yes.)
4
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Precure

Against: :smallbiggrin:


2
"You said that the Twelve Gods are functionally all true neutral, as their worshippers' alignments average out to true neutral. Does this mean that alignment is roughly evenly distributed in OotS-verse? Are most people true neutral and the other alignments are comparatively uncommon? Or (for example) are most people good and there's a few Xykon-sized outliers bringing down the average?"
(Mostly True Neutral.)
6
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, b_jonas, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure

Against: :smallbiggrin:


3
"What was the purpose of including Tinkertown? Nothing that happened there had anything to do with the gnomes and could have been in Cliffport instead."
(Sidestepping Cliffport plot threads. With gnomes.)
5
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure

Against: :smallbiggrin:


4
"Did Thor basically confirm that the movie theater intermission strip is canon?"
(Yes!)
5
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure

Against: :smallbiggrin:


5
"Was the purpose of the scene with Xykon not being able to taste coffee [that occurs in Start of Darkness] to show that as the moment he became truly irredeemable?"
(Not what I meant.)
5
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure

Against: :smallbiggrin:


6
"Who can break the Fourth Wall? I thought it was only the main heroes but then I realized that the demon roaches do it alot and so does Thor."
(Anyone.)
3
1
Include
In Favor: Kish, Sir_Norbert, Precure

Against: Fyraltari


7
"You have talked in the past about how Teleport and Resurrection make writing stories in a D&D setting difficult. Are there any other spells or character abilities that you find are constantly getting in your way?"
(Yes.)
5
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure

Against: :smallbiggrin:


8
"Do you like Denouements? I know that's an abrupt question and obvious lead in to something else, but some people I'm arguing with are saying one of your longest running subplots isn't having its ending foreshadowed and isn't going to have a denouement after the climax."
(Yes.)
5
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Fve_Abeoreg, Metastachydium, Precure

Against: :smallbiggrin:


10
"All six members of the order have evolved over time. Have any of them become easier or harder to write because of the ways they changed?"
(Harder more often than easier.)
5
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure

Against: :smallbiggrin:





Poster
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
10


Fyraltari
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Kish
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


b_jonas

:smallbiggrin:









Sir_Norbert
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Metastachydium

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Precure
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:




Answer 1 on GDGU surprised me because I thought that Rich considered Star of Darkness his finest work so far.Interestingly enough, the same post says Start of Darkness was the arc he was most proud of, and (from the timing) Blood Runs in the Family was the book he enjoyed the most. I may need to merge all these together into a single entry, instead of modifying/replacing one of the existing entries....



Who's Kohaku (CE) though?
A Good Deeds Gone Unpunished character.Originally from the Spoiler Alert Kickstarter reward PDF, if you happened to get in on that.

[Satohika]

Include 1, 2, 5
Disclude 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10

[b_jonas]

Include 2, but maybe rewrite the blurb. The important part I think isn't the question bringing up the twelve gods of the South, but that most people are True Neutral because they aren't committed enough to their ideals to act on them in situations where they have a real cost to them.

Abstain from 4, but if it's included, perhaps modify the blurb to mention “sentient movie theater snacks” and #301 and #1140 because that's what I'd search for.

[Jasdoif]

Include 2, but maybe rewrite the blurb. The important part I think isn't the question bringing up the twelve gods of the South, but that most people are True Neutral because they aren't committed enough to their ideals to act on them in situations where they have a real cost to them.

Abstain from 4, but if it's included, perhaps modify the blurb to mention “sentient movie theater snacks” and #301 and #1140 because that's what I'd search for.Note that I haven't written prospective entries yet; those aren't blurbs, those are the questions verbatim. Partly because it's easier to observe what people other than myself find important about the answers (i.e. your comments), partly because I want for a weekday to pass to account for input from people who may not check the forum on the weekends, partly because my first shots usually need work on the tone (e.g. #5 as "Is coffee the opposite of damnation?").

[Ortho]

Oh, hey, my question made it in!

I vote to include all but #6.

[Kish]

I'm confused. Why would #6 not be included? Clearly at least one person felt the need for clarification (and I've certainly seen "only specific people get to break the fourth wall" come up before, most annoyingly with the idea that Tarquin somehow introduced it). It's relevant to how Rich writes OotS and will continue to write it. Is it somehow being seen as invasive?

[ti'esar]

Include all.

Incidentally, I kind of think the blurb for 4 should mention that Rich actually considered doing a story with the movie theater snack characters. I agree with his self-assessment that it's basically funny to describe but not capable of being stretched out into an actual written work, but it's still the most interesting part of that answer, IMO.

[Fyraltari]

I think the blurb for question 10 should be "harder except for Durkon".

[Gwynfrid]

I can't think of a reason not to include every one of these. All are interesting questions with good answers, some particularly thoughtful (like the comparison between Zykon post-lichdom and Roy in Celestia). So sure, let's have them all.

[Throknor]

Include all.

[Satohika]

I'm confused. Why would #6 not be included? Clearly at least one person felt the need for clarification (and I've certainly seen "only specific people get to break the fourth wall" come up before, most annoyingly with the idea that Tarquin somehow introduced it). It's relevant to how Rich writes OotS and will continue to write it. Is it somehow being seen as invasive?

Anyone who actually read this story would know that the fourth wall breaking jokes are pretty normal and regularly used by all sorts of characters.

[Kish]

So? Last I checked, there's no thread rule that goes, "Only include questions that are [something it would actually be a forum rule violation to suggest any specific questions are not]."

[Ruck]

Anyone who actually read this story would know that the fourth wall breaking jokes are pretty normal and regularly used by all sorts of characters.

And yet, there's the question, submitted through Patreon.

[Ortho]

I'm against including #6 since it seems like a case of selection bias. Everyone in this strip can break the 4th wall, and if it seems like the main characters break the 4th wall the most often, that's only because they have the most lines.

[Jasdoif]

Looks like #6 is the only one dealing with contention, sitting right at the lower edge of automatic inclusion....



#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
"I've noticed that when someone asks you about your favorite thing you tend to pick something from Good Deeds Gone Unpunished. Is that your favorite story you've written overall?"
(Yes.)
8
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor

Against: :smallbiggrin:


2
"You said that the Twelve Gods are functionally all true neutral, as their worshippers' alignments average out to true neutral. Does this mean that alignment is roughly evenly distributed in OotS-verse? Are most people true neutral and the other alignments are comparatively uncommon? Or (for example) are most people good and there's a few Xykon-sized outliers bringing down the average?"
(Mostly True Neutral.)
10
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, b_jonas, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor

Against: :smallbiggrin:


3
"What was the purpose of including Tinkertown? Nothing that happened there had anything to do with the gnomes and could have been in Cliffport instead."
(Sidestepping Cliffport plot threads. With gnomes.)
8
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor

Against: Satohika


4
"Did Thor basically confirm that the movie theater intermission strip is canon?"
(Yes!)
8
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor

Against: Satohika


5
"Was the purpose of the scene with Xykon not being able to taste coffee [that occurs in Start of Darkness] to show that as the moment he became truly irredeemable?"
(Not what I meant.)
9
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor

Against: :smallbiggrin:


6
"Who can break the Fourth Wall? I thought it was only the main heroes but then I realized that the demon roaches do it alot and so does Thor."
(Anyone.)
6
3
Include
In Favor: Kish, Sir_Norbert, Precure, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ruck

Against: Fyraltari, Satohika, mjp1050


7
"You have talked in the past about how Teleport and Resurrection make writing stories in a D&D setting difficult. Are there any other spells or character abilities that you find are constantly getting in your way?"
(Yes.)
8
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor

Against: Satohika


8
"Do you like Denouements? I know that's an abrupt question and obvious lead in to something else, but some people I'm arguing with are saying one of your longest running subplots isn't having its ending foreshadowed and isn't going to have a denouement after the climax."
(Yes.)
8
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Fve_Abeoreg, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor

Against: Satohika


10
"All six members of the order have evolved over time. Have any of them become easier or harder to write because of the ways they changed?"
(Harder more often than easier.)
8
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor

Against: Satohika





Poster
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
10


Fyraltari
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Kish
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


b_jonas

:smallbiggrin:









Sir_Norbert
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Metastachydium

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Precure
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Satohika
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:


mjp1050
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Gwynfrid
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Throknor
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Ruck





:smallbiggrin:







Okay, first shot at entries....


Tentative Entries

🍌On Breaking the Fourth Wall(#6) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"Anyone in the comic could theoretically do it...."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌On Denouements(#8) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"So I guess the real question here is, is the subplot you're concerned about necessarily one that I think is important enough to deserve a denouement?"
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌On Xykon Losing His Ability to Taste Coffee(#5) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"...the purpose of that scene was more to show Xykon losing touch with his humanity, specifically the way that his biological body may have actually been preventing him from becoming a true monster."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍍🍌The Giant's Favorite Book(#1) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, for "the freedom to create all-new characters and write plots that only tangentially affected the main storyline of the comic". (Of main storyline books, Blood Runs in the Family, "the most recent one" at the time.)
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌The Movie Theater World Is Canon(#4) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
#301 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) and the panel in #1140 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html) are "...something that happened on one of the other worlds before the current one."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌The Purpose of Using Tinkertown(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"It was better to have a fresh location..." instead of reusing Cliffport and having to revisit plot threads.
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌Writing Characters As They Have Evolved(#10) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"Everyone except Durkon is harder, because....I often will write a punchline then stare at it and realize that the character can't say that anymore because they grew out of that mindset a while back." "With Durkon....Even just having Minrah there to serve as his cohort sort of automatically gives him something to do."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍍🍌D&D Rules that Harm the Story
True Resurrection, and also Teleport. See also here(#7) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329) ("At the power level that the heroes are at right now, there are a lot of 'invisible' spells that would often affect the outcome of a fight. Especially things like fire immunity or mind blank, where having it means being able to completely no-sell an enemy attack. It's become a bit awkward to constantly need to either show those spells being cast or have someone discuss how they have such-and-such a spell running....")
#980
2015/04/25


🍍🍌Who Else is Neutral
A long list of Neutral characters in the comic. See also here and here(#2) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329) ("...most normal mortal people are True Neutral...").
#903
2013/07/22

[Tzardok]

Meh. Let me add an additional vote in favour of #6.

[Gwynfrid]

Anyone who actually read this story would know that the fourth wall breaking jokes are pretty normal and regularly used by all sorts of characters.

We’ve historically erred, when unsure, on the side of including quotes. If you look at the existing compendium of quotes, you will find a number that may seem trivial, unimportant, or unserious to many eyes. We’ve added them anyway. The fact that someone asked the question and got a non-joke answer indicates it most likely fits the Index’s purpose.

[Ron Miel]

Include them all, except the baseball one.

[pearl jam]

the baseball one is not up for inclusion anyway due to the thread rules

[Kish]

The summary of #3 is once again lacking gnomes.

(Which, in all seriousness, makes me think I'm reading that answer fundamentally differently from Jasdoif.)

[Satohika]

So? Last I checked, there's no thread rule that goes, "Only include questions that are [something it would actually be a forum rule violation to suggest any specific questions are not]."

I didn't say anything about thread rules? You asked a question, I answered it.


And yet, there's the question, submitted through Patreon.

You overestimate their reading skills.

[Peelee]

I didn't say anything about thread rules? You asked a question, I answered it.



You overestimate their reading skills.

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Let's not insult others here.

[Jasdoif]

The summary of #3 is once again lacking gnomes.

(Which, in all seriousness, makes me think I'm reading that answer fundamentally differently from Jasdoif.)It reads to me like the opening paragraph with the gnomes is comically exaggerated; while the second paragraph about needing a fresh location is serious and level in tone, as well as answering the question asked in a way that suggests that was the primary point...before tying back into gnomes at the end. It's an example of the Giant's exaggeration/caricature-then-serious-then-connect style.

Also it fits easily into the Writing Process section, whereas I'm not sure which category "We hold these gnomes to be self-evident" would really fit into.

[Kish]

Yes, as I suspected, we're reading it fundamentally differently. Yes, there's some joking exaggeration in the "gnomes, look at their cute hats!" thing. Where we apparently disagree, is whether what's under that joking exaggeration is "Writing gnomes was essentially random, Gnometown's sole function was to be Not-Cliffport" or "I had a lot of fun drawing the gnome scenes and put it there because I correctly predicted I would have a lot of fun writing and drawing gnome scenes...and also, since for some reason the question asker brought up Cliffport, here are the reasons I wasn't going to put in a visit to Cliffport there."

Or to put it another way, there are essentially two questions there: "Why Tinkertown?" and "Why not Cliffport?" You're putting an answer to the one I think is secondary, and entirely dropping the one I think is primary.

[Tzardok]

I aggree with Kish; the gnomes seem to be the most important part of the answer.

[Jasdoif]

Yes, as I suspected, we're reading it fundamentally differently. Yes, there's some joking exaggeration in the "gnomes, look at their cute hats!" thing. Where we apparently disagree, is whether what's under that joking exaggeration is "Writing gnomes was essentially random, Gnometown's sole function was to be Not-Cliffport" or "I had a lot of fun drawing the gnome scenes and put it there because I correctly predicted I would have a lot of fun writing and drawing gnome scenes...and also, since for some reason the question asker brought up Cliffport, here are the reasons I wasn't going to put in a visit to Cliffport there."

Or to put it another way, there are essentially two questions there: "Why Tinkertown?" and "Why not Cliffport?" You're putting an answer to the one I think is secondary, and entirely dropping the one I think is primary.I wouldn't say "essentially random", "because I wanted to draw gnomes" is an entirely valid and specific reason. But I find the "not-Cliffport" answer more significant...Partly because it's the kind of writing process stuff that isn't obvious on the surface, partly because the answer wasn't "Cliffport is on a different continent that's well out of their way" that would be obvious at the time so there's definitely some thought given to this angle.

I'm not opposed to creating two entries for the question, but again I'm not seeing a good category for "not all hats are created equal, these were endowed by their creator with certain unalienable adorableness" o_o

[Kish]

Writing, along with every other time the answer to a question amounts to, "I wrote/drew that because it was fun for me to write/draw."

[Jasdoif]

#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
"I've noticed that when someone asks you about your favorite thing you tend to pick something from Good Deeds Gone Unpunished. Is that your favorite story you've written overall?"
(Yes.)
10
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar

Against: :smallbiggrin:


2
"You said that the Twelve Gods are functionally all true neutral, as their worshippers' alignments average out to true neutral. Does this mean that alignment is roughly evenly distributed in OotS-verse? Are most people true neutral and the other alignments are comparatively uncommon? Or (for example) are most people good and there's a few Xykon-sized outliers bringing down the average?"
(Mostly True Neutral.)
12
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, b_jonas, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar

Against: :smallbiggrin:


3
"What was the purpose of including Tinkertown? Nothing that happened there had anything to do with the gnomes and could have been in Cliffport instead."
(Sidestepping Cliffport plot threads. With gnomes.)
10
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar

Against: Satohika


4
"Did Thor basically confirm that the movie theater intermission strip is canon?"
(Yes!)
10
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar

Against: Satohika


5
"Was the purpose of the scene with Xykon not being able to taste coffee [that occurs in Start of Darkness] to show that as the moment he became truly irredeemable?"
(Not what I meant.)
11
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar

Against: :smallbiggrin:


6
"Who can break the Fourth Wall? I thought it was only the main heroes but then I realized that the demon roaches do it alot and so does Thor."
(Anyone.)
9
3
Include
In Favor: Kish, Sir_Norbert, Precure, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ruck, Tzardok, Ron Miel, ti'esar

Against: Fyraltari, Satohika, mjp1050


7
"You have talked in the past about how Teleport and Resurrection make writing stories in a D&D setting difficult. Are there any other spells or character abilities that you find are constantly getting in your way?"
(Yes.)
10
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar

Against: Satohika


8
"Do you like Denouements? I know that's an abrupt question and obvious lead in to something else, but some people I'm arguing with are saying one of your longest running subplots isn't having its ending foreshadowed and isn't going to have a denouement after the climax."
(Yes.)
10
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Fve_Abeoreg, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar

Against: Satohika


10
"All six members of the order have evolved over time. Have any of them become easier or harder to write because of the ways they changed?"
(Harder more often than easier.)
10
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar

Against: Satohika





Poster
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
10


Fyraltari
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Kish
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


b_jonas

:smallbiggrin:









Sir_Norbert
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Metastachydium

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Precure
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Satohika
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:


mjp1050
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


ti'esar
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Gwynfrid
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Throknor
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Ruck





:smallbiggrin:





Tzardok





:smallbiggrin:





Ron Miel
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:




Writing, along with every other time the answer to a question amounts to, "I wrote/drew that because it was fun for me to write/draw."The category with more subcategories than the Patreon post has questions? That may not have been as helpful as you expected :smalltongue:


Tentative Entries

🍌On Breaking the Fourth Wall(#6) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"Anyone in the comic could theoretically do it...."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌On Denouements(#8) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"So I guess the real question here is, is the subplot you're concerned about necessarily one that I think is important enough to deserve a denouement?"
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌On Introducing Gnomish Islands(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"...I saw an opening to draw an adorable town of steampunk gnomes and I took it."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌On Xykon Losing His Ability to Taste Coffee(#5) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"...the purpose of that scene was more to show Xykon losing touch with his humanity, specifically the way that his biological body may have actually been preventing him from becoming a true monster."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍍🍌The Giant's Favorite Book(#1) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, for "the freedom to create all-new characters and write plots that only tangentially affected the main storyline of the comic". (Of main storyline books, Blood Runs in the Family, "the most recent one" at the time.)
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌The Movie Theater World Is Canon(#4) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
#301 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) and the panel in #1140 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html) are "...something that happened on one of the other worlds before the current one."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌The Purpose of Using Tinkertown(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"It was better to have a fresh location..." instead of reusing Cliffport and having to revisit plot threads.
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌Writing Characters As They Have Evolved(#10) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"Everyone except Durkon is harder, because....I often will write a punchline then stare at it and realize that the character can't say that anymore because they grew out of that mindset a while back." "With Durkon....Even just having Minrah there to serve as his cohort sort of automatically gives him something to do."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍍🍌D&D Rules that Harm the Story
True Resurrection, and also Teleport. See also here(#7) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329) ("At the power level that the heroes are at right now, there are a lot of 'invisible' spells that would often affect the outcome of a fight. Especially things like fire immunity or mind blank, where having it means being able to completely no-sell an enemy attack. It's become a bit awkward to constantly need to either show those spells being cast or have someone discuss how they have such-and-such a spell running....")
#980
2015/04/25


🍍🍌Who Else is Neutral
A long list of Neutral characters in the comic. See also here and here(#2) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329) ("...most normal mortal people are True Neutral...").
#903
2013/07/22

[Tzardok]

I think it fits reasonably well into Writing Process, Reflections from the Author or Real World Intent.

[Precure]

I support the inclusion of gnomes.

[Ruck]

You overestimate their reading skills.

It seems your definition of "actually read" is tautological. "Anyone who actually read the strip would have concluded this; the definition of having 'actually read' the strip is that the reader concluded the same things I did."

Anyway, agreed with Kish that the info about gnomes should be in there because I think Rich was being pretty clear that he thought they were fun to write and draw. And I suppose I'll vote to include all from this round of questions as well.

[Ron Miel]

I don't think we should have two separate entries for #3. "The giant didn't want to revisit dangling Cliffport plot lines, but did want to draw cute steampunk gnomes" or something similar.

Also #4 should reflect that while snackworld is now officially part of the multiverse, he didn't think of it as such when he first made the strip.

[Satohika]

It seems your definition of "actually read" is tautological. "Anyone who actually read the strip would have concluded this; the definition of having 'actually read' the strip is that the reader concluded the same things I did."

It's not a conclusion, it's a fact that 4th wall breaking jokes are made by all sorts of characters and not something exclusive to the primary characters.

[Jasdoif]

#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
"I've noticed that when someone asks you about your favorite thing you tend to pick something from Good Deeds Gone Unpunished. Is that your favorite story you've written overall?"
(Yes.)
11
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: :smallbiggrin:


2
"You said that the Twelve Gods are functionally all true neutral, as their worshippers' alignments average out to true neutral. Does this mean that alignment is roughly evenly distributed in OotS-verse? Are most people true neutral and the other alignments are comparatively uncommon? Or (for example) are most people good and there's a few Xykon-sized outliers bringing down the average?"
(Mostly True Neutral.)
13
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, b_jonas, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: :smallbiggrin:


3
"What was the purpose of including Tinkertown? Nothing that happened there had anything to do with the gnomes and could have been in Cliffport instead."
(Sidestepping Cliffport plot threads. With gnomes.)
11
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Satohika


4
"Did Thor basically confirm that the movie theater intermission strip is canon?"
(Yes!)
11
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Satohika


5
"Was the purpose of the scene with Xykon not being able to taste coffee [that occurs in Start of Darkness] to show that as the moment he became truly irredeemable?"
(Not what I meant.)
12
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: :smallbiggrin:


6
"Who can break the Fourth Wall? I thought it was only the main heroes but then I realized that the demon roaches do it alot and so does Thor."
(Anyone.)
9
3
Include
In Favor: Kish, Sir_Norbert, Precure, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Tzardok, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Fyraltari, Satohika, mjp1050


7
"You have talked in the past about how Teleport and Resurrection make writing stories in a D&D setting difficult. Are there any other spells or character abilities that you find are constantly getting in your way?"
(Yes.)
11
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Satohika


8
"Do you like Denouements? I know that's an abrupt question and obvious lead in to something else, but some people I'm arguing with are saying one of your longest running subplots isn't having its ending foreshadowed and isn't going to have a denouement after the climax."
(Yes.)
11
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Fve_Abeoreg, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Satohika


10
"All six members of the order have evolved over time. Have any of them become easier or harder to write because of the ways they changed?"
(Harder more often than easier.)
11
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Satohika





Poster
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
10


Fyraltari
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Kish
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


b_jonas

:smallbiggrin:









Sir_Norbert
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Metastachydium

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Precure
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Satohika
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:


mjp1050
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


ti'esar
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Gwynfrid
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Throknor
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Tzardok





:smallbiggrin:





Ron Miel
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Ruck
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:




I don't think we should have two separate entries for #3. "The giant didn't want to revisit dangling Cliffport plot lines, but did want to draw cute steampunk gnomes" or something similar.I rather like the cleanliness of two "fundamentally different" answers having their own entry, myself...what's everyone else think?


Also #4 should reflect that while snackworld is now officially part of the multiverse, he didn't think of it as such when he first made the strip.Doesn't seem that important to note, as it looks like by the time we knew there was more than one previous world it was "always" one of them...and/or I just like how smoothly that entry currently reads...again, what's everyone else think?

In any case, seems entries are mostly ironed out, so the current state with categories and stuff is....



Specific Characters
Neutral Characters

🍍🍌Who Else is Neutral
A long list of Neutral characters in the comic. See also here and here(#2) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329) ("...most normal mortal people are True Neutral...").
#903
2013/07/22





Reading Too Much Into It

🍌On Breaking the Fourth Wall(#6) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"Anyone in the comic could theoretically do it...."
#1277
2023/03/10





Writing Process

🍌On Introducing Gnomish Islands(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"...I saw an opening to draw an adorable town of steampunk gnomes and I took it."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌The Purpose of Using Tinkertown(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"It was better to have a fresh location..." instead of reusing Cliffport and having to revisit plot threads.
#1277
2023/03/10


🍍🍌D&D Rules that Harm the Story
True Resurrection, and also Teleport. See also here(#7) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329) ("At the power level that the heroes are at right now, there are a lot of 'invisible' spells that would often affect the outcome of a fight. Especially things like fire immunity or mind blank, where having it means being able to completely no-sell an enemy attack. It's become a bit awkward to constantly need to either show those spells being cast or have someone discuss how they have such-and-such a spell running....")
#980
2015/04/25




Forum and Reader Reactions

🍌On Denouements(#8) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"So I guess the real question here is, is the subplot you're concerned about necessarily one that I think is important enough to deserve a denouement?"
#1277
2023/03/10




Story Development

🍌The Movie Theater World Is Canon(#4) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
#301 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) and the panel in #1140 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html) are "...something that happened on one of the other worlds before the current one."
#1277
2023/03/10


🍌Writing Characters As They Have Evolved(#10) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"Everyone except Durkon is harder, because....I often will write a punchline then stare at it and realize that the character can't say that anymore because they grew out of that mindset a while back." "With Durkon....Even just having Minrah there to serve as his cohort sort of automatically gives him something to do."
#1277
2023/03/10




Reflections from the Author

🍍🍌The Giant's Favorite Book(#1) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, for "the freedom to create all-new characters and write plots that only tangentially affected the main storyline of the comic". (Of main storyline books, Blood Runs in the Family, "the most recent one" at the time.)
#1277
2023/03/10






Start of Darkness

🍌On Xykon Losing His Ability to Taste Coffee(#5) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"...the purpose of that scene was more to show Xykon losing touch with his humanity, specifically the way that his biological body may have actually been preventing him from becoming a true monster."
#1277
2023/03/10

[Kish]

I rather like the cleanliness of two "fundamentally different" answers having their own entry, myself...what's everyone else think?
I think it's the best option in light of the disagreement over emphasis.

[Gwynfrid]

I rather like the cleanliness of two "fundamentally different" answers having their own entry, myself...what's everyone else think?

Both views are in the same category, Writing Process. Having the quote twice side by side feels like clutter to me. Your summary with both perspectives is excellent, I would stick to it.



Doesn't seem that important to note, as it looks like by the time we knew there was more than one previous world it was "always" one of them...and/or I just like how smoothly that entry currently reads...again, what's everyone else think?


This seems unnecessary to me.

[Jasdoif]

Both views are in the same category, Writing Process. Having the quote twice side by side feels like clutter to me.Hmm...it did look nicer when I thought there would be other strips added into Writing Process separating the two. Okay, how about this?



🍌The Purpose of Creating Tinkertown(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
Instead of having to revisit plot threads tied to e.g. Cliffport, "It was better to have a fresh location, and since it needed to be somewhere that could service the Mechane, I came up with the idea of a town of gnomes."
#1277
2023/03/10

[Gwynfrid]

Hmm...it did look nicer when I thought there would be other strips added into Writing Process separating the two. Okay, how about this?



🍌The Purpose of Creating Tinkertown(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
Instead of having to revisit plot threads tied to e.g. Cliffport, "It was better to have a fresh location, and since it needed to be somewhere that could service the Mechane, I came up with the idea of a town of gnomes."
#1277
2023/03/10



It’s longer than your earlier version, but it works.

[Precure]

I, also, prefer the cleanliness of two "fundamentally different" answers having their own entry.

[Ruck]

I think to better get to the heart of the answer "I saw an opening to draw an adorable town of steampunk gnomes and I took it" should fit in there somehow. Just in the sense that Rich makes it clear he thought that would be fun to draw and as much as anything that's why he included Tinkertown.

[Kish]

I think to better get to the heart of the answer "I saw an opening to draw an adorable town of steampunk gnomes and I took it" should fit in there somehow. Just in the sense that Rich makes it clear he thought that would be fun to draw and as much as anything that's why he included Tinkertown.
Seconded .

[Jasdoif]

I think to better get to the heart of the answer "I saw an opening to draw an adorable town of steampunk gnomes and I took it" should fit in there somehow. Just in the sense that Rich makes it clear he thought that would be fun to draw and as much as anything that's why he included Tinkertown.
Seconded.Hmm....




🍌The Purpose of Creating Tinkertown(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
Instead of having to revisit plot threads tied to e.g. Cliffport, it "was better to have a fresh location"; and then the Giant "saw an opening to draw an adorable town of steampunk gnomes".
#1277
2023/03/10

[Ron Miel]

Also #4 should reflect that while snackworld is now officially part of the multiverse, he didn't think of it as such when he first made the strip.




Doesn't seem that important to note, as it looks like by the time we knew there was more than one previous world it was "always" one of them...and/or I just like how smoothly that entry currently reads...again, what's everyone else think?

Personally, I think it's the most interesting part.

The fact that the snacks are officially one of the former worlds is clearly stated in the strip itself, and doesn't really need the Giant to confirm it. Barely worth including.

The fact that he hadn't planned it as such, but made the connection later, is much more interesting, and certainly worth including.

[Precure]

I agree with Ron. That's the most interesting part, as the strip already confirmed the rest.

[Ruck]

Hmm....

Works well enough for me.

[Kish]

Same here.

[Jasdoif]

The fact that the snacks are officially one of the former worlds is clearly stated in the strip itself, and doesn't really need the Giant to confirm it. Barely worth including.I suppose if you disregard 301 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html), its standalone nature, and the comic's tendency to have non-serious self-referencial panels (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0350.html); you might not find anything worth including there. Feels like taking a wrong turn to me, though.

In any case, there hasn't been much movement on this point and I haven't come up with (or received) any good suggestions for adding the "I didn't think of it as a previous world at the time, even though I had thought about there being previous worlds at the time" into the description....And since the descriptions are at my discretion I can simply update it if either of those points change, so delaying the update solely on account of this is kind of silly.




#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
"I've noticed that when someone asks you about your favorite thing you tend to pick something from Good Deeds Gone Unpunished. Is that your favorite story you've written overall?"
(Yes.)
11
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: :smallbiggrin:


2
"You said that the Twelve Gods are functionally all true neutral, as their worshippers' alignments average out to true neutral. Does this mean that alignment is roughly evenly distributed in OotS-verse? Are most people true neutral and the other alignments are comparatively uncommon? Or (for example) are most people good and there's a few Xykon-sized outliers bringing down the average?"
(Mostly True Neutral.)
13
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, b_jonas, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: :smallbiggrin:


3
"What was the purpose of including Tinkertown? Nothing that happened there had anything to do with the gnomes and could have been in Cliffport instead."
(Sidestepping Cliffport plot threads. With gnomes.)
11
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Satohika


4
"Did Thor basically confirm that the movie theater intermission strip is canon?"
(Yes!)
11
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Satohika


5
"Was the purpose of the scene with Xykon not being able to taste coffee [that occurs in Start of Darkness] to show that as the moment he became truly irredeemable?"
(Not what I meant.)
12
0
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, Satohika, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: :smallbiggrin:


6
"Who can break the Fourth Wall? I thought it was only the main heroes but then I realized that the demon roaches do it alot and so does Thor."
(Anyone.)
9
3
Include
In Favor: Kish, Sir_Norbert, Precure, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Tzardok, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Fyraltari, Satohika, mjp1050


7
"You have talked in the past about how Teleport and Resurrection make writing stories in a D&D setting difficult. Are there any other spells or character abilities that you find are constantly getting in your way?"
(Yes.)
11
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Satohika


8
"Do you like Denouements? I know that's an abrupt question and obvious lead in to something else, but some people I'm arguing with are saying one of your longest running subplots isn't having its ending foreshadowed and isn't going to have a denouement after the climax."
(Yes.)
11
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Fve_Abeoreg, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Satohika


10
"All six members of the order have evolved over time. Have any of them become easier or harder to write because of the ways they changed?"
(Harder more often than easier.)
11
1
Include
In Favor: Fyraltari, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Metastachydium, Precure, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Throknor, Ron Miel, ti'esar, Ruck

Against: Satohika





Poster
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
10


Fyraltari
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Kish
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


b_jonas

:smallbiggrin:









Sir_Norbert
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Metastachydium

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Precure
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Satohika
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:


mjp1050
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


ti'esar
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Gwynfrid
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Throknor
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Tzardok





:smallbiggrin:





Ron Miel
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Ruck
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:





Updates for Index 6.11

🍌On Breaking the Fourth Wall(#6) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"Anyone in the comic could theoretically do it...."
#1277
2023/03/10
No vote required, will be included.


🍌On Denouements(#8) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"So I guess the real question here is, is the subplot you're concerned about necessarily one that I think is important enough to deserve a denouement?"
#1277
2023/03/10
No vote required, will be included.


🍌On Xykon Losing His Ability to Taste Coffee(#5) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"...the purpose of that scene was more to show Xykon losing touch with his humanity, specifically the way that his biological body may have actually been preventing him from becoming a true monster."
#1277
2023/03/10
No vote required, will be included.


🍍🍌The Giant's Favorite Book(#1) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
Good Deeds Gone Unpunished, for "the freedom to create all-new characters and write plots that only tangentially affected the main storyline of the comic". (Of main storyline books, Blood Runs in the Family, "the most recent one" at the time.)
#1277
2023/03/10
No vote required, will be included.


🍌The Movie Theater World Is Canon(#4) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
#301 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) and the panel in #1140 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html) are "...something that happened on one of the other worlds before the current one."
#1277
2023/03/10
No vote required, will be included.


🍌The Purpose of Creating Tinkertown(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
Instead of having to revisit plot threads tied to e.g. Cliffport, it "was better to have a fresh location"; and then the Giant "saw an opening to draw an adorable town of steampunk gnomes".
#1277
2023/03/10
No vote required, will be included.


🍌Writing Characters As They Have Evolved(#10) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329)
"Everyone except Durkon is harder, because....I often will write a punchline then stare at it and realize that the character can't say that anymore because they grew out of that mindset a while back." "With Durkon....Even just having Minrah there to serve as his cohort sort of automatically gives him something to do."
#1277
2023/03/10
No vote required, will be included.


🍍🍌D&D Rules that Harm the Story
True Resurrection, and also Teleport. See also here(#7) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329) ("At the power level that the heroes are at right now, there are a lot of 'invisible' spells that would often affect the outcome of a fight. Especially things like fire immunity or mind blank, where having it means being able to completely no-sell an enemy attack. It's become a bit awkward to constantly need to either show those spells being cast or have someone discuss how they have such-and-such a spell running....")
#980
2015/04/25
No vote required, will be included.


🍍🍌Who Else is Neutral
A long list of Neutral characters in the comic. See also here and here(#2) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-7-79846329) ("...most normal mortal people are True Neutral...").
#903
2013/07/22
No vote required, will be included.




With nothing eligible to be voted on, there will be no vote; the Index has been updated.


Now....

When our founder ThePhantasm, long ago, proposed the Index update mechanism that's the basis of how it's done today; the Index threads were picking up pages of votes with each of the Giant's sproadic posts, making it difficult to keep up with the threads. The whole point of the system was to accumulate questions so they could be considered en masse to reduce needless overhead via centralization.

As the Giant is now using Patreon to accumulate questions en masse himself, the current system itself has needless overhead. Most notably: the "six quotes or two months" threshold is effectively meaningless since six or more quotes come in at once, and thus the use of private messages to confirm whether resistance still exists before calling a vote is wasted since there's neglible delay between the questions and the potential vote (as opposed to the prior two month delay).

At the same time, I like how the current arrangement allows bypassing a vote entirely if there's a clear consensus...and, while "like" would not be the word I'd choose for this, there are definitely people who only participate via voting; as much as I'd prefer greater involvement in the discussion, trying to coerce it by eliminating formal votes would be inappropriate regardless of how ineffective it would be.


So....

I'm thinking some changes are warranted.
First off, no "six quote or two month" postponement period; with the Patreon posts being three years old, it's more confusing than anything else at this point...plus if a forum post does become relevant for indexing, it'll annoy me to have to keep track of it for two months.
Since a vote will necessarily be a refined quantification of the ongoing consensus (as opposed to a remeasuring after up to two months after the fact), posts in the discussion that are definitely votes will be counted as so people won't feel the need to "vote twice" or whatever the exact term is. Naturally I'll need to include a list of which posters/posts the vote is starting off with, and those posts can be supplanted by a new post if the poster does change their mind (as with any other scenario where that occurs).
Cutting out the PM stage, since it serves no purpose; if the situation is questionable enough to call for a vote, a vote will simply be called.
Without the two-PM threshold, the two-vote margin for inclusion makes no/less sense; a simple majority (i.e. anything greater than 50/50) should be adequate.



To that end....
I am proposing to update Rule F4 to the following:


4) | If a comment's inclusion is uncertain, a vote requires a majority. If there is a tie the comment will not be included. Remember, the purpose of the discussions and votes are to reach some measure of consensus, not division.


4) | If a comment's inclusion is uncertain, a vote requires a clear majority. If there is a tie the comment will not be included. The majority must have at least 2 more votes than the minority. Remember, the purpose of the discussions and votes are to reach some measure of consensus, not division.
As well updating Rule H1 to the following:


1) | General Update Procedure For a quote to be queued for an update requires community support. Additions will only be voted on if discussion doesn't reveal a clear and strong consensus; removals are always voted on.
If a vote is necessary for any additions, the curator will call for voting on those additions. At the curator's discretion, posts in the discussion that qualify as votes may be counted as votes; these posts will be noted when the vote is called for. Further discussion, beyond reiterating personal reasons for voting alongside the vote, is discouraged while the vote is going on. Addition must "win" a majority (by at least one vote) for the quote to be added.
If any quotes are queued for removal, the curator will call for voting on those removals, separately from any voting for additions. Removal must "win" a majority (by at least one vote) for the quote to be removed.


1) | General Update Procedure Each update cycle happens when there are six quotes queued for addition/removal, or when it has been two months since the last update cycle.
For a quote to be queued for an update requires community support. Additions have more leniency on being queued than removals; and additions with strong community support are exempt from potential votes during the update, while removals are always voted on.
When an impending update is announced by the curator, and prior to the update being done, people can PM the curator requesting a vote on the quote(s) to added (unless the earlier discussion strongly favored addition, as mentioned above). Two separate posters must request a vote on a quote for it to occur, otherwise the quote will be included. This step is done to ensure active opposition to including the quote is still present.
If a vote is necessary for any additions, the curator will call for voting on those additions. Discussion, beyond reiterating personal reasons for voting alongside the vote, is discouraged while the vote is going on. Addition must "win" a majority by at least 2 votes for the quote to be added.
If any quotes are queued for removal, the curator will call for voting on those removals, separately from any voting for additions. Removal must "win" a majority by at least 2 votes for the quote to be removed.

Naturally any rule changes will themselves need to be voted on....What's everyone think?

[Tzardok]

I aggree with the changes.

[Kish]

I'm all for making it easier to include quotes, so yes.

[137beth]

Sounds like good changes to the process for making changes.

[Gwynfrid]

Very reasonable. The Giant’s current method for addressing questions makes the legacy voting procedure obsolete. This simplification is welcome.

[Metastachydium]

For what it's worth, I approve of the proposed changes. If the Giant endeavoured to make the Banana's life easier, there's no point in not reducing those superfluous administrative burdens.

[Joerg]

I'm very much in favor of these changes.

[Jasdoif]

It occurs to me that "queued" is probably not the best word to use, as we'd no longer have a queue in the typical sense; here's an updated draft for proposed rule H1 replacement:


1) | General Update Procedure Any update to the Index requires community support. Additions will only be voted on if discussion doesn't reveal a clear and strong consensus; removals are always voted on.
If a vote is necessary for any additions, the curator will call for voting on those additions. At the curator's discretion, posts in the discussion that qualify as votes may be counted as votes; these posts will be noted when the vote is called for. Further discussion, beyond reiterating personal reasons for voting alongside the vote, is discouraged while the vote is going on. Addition must "win" a majority (by at least one vote) for the quote to be added.
If any quote removals have community support, the curator will call for voting on those removals, separately from any voting for additions. Removal must "win" a majority (by at least one vote) for the quote to be removed.


I am, however, primarily posting to note that if anyone else has ideas on how voting, or any of the other thread rules, could be improved or should be formalized; this would be a good time for proposals.

[Jasdoif]

Well then.

VOTING FOR RULE REVISION OPEN

Since the thread rules have the potential to impact the inclusion of any future quote, all rule changes must be approved by vote.


The proposal at hand contains two steps:
The entirety of Rule F4 will be replaced with the following:


4) | If a comment's inclusion is uncertain, a vote requires a majority. If there is a tie the comment will not be included. Remember, the purpose of the discussions and votes are to reach some measure of consensus, not division.
The entirety of Rule H1 will be replaced with the following:


1) | General Update Procedure Any update to the Index requires community support. Additions will only be voted on if discussion doesn't reveal a clear and strong consensus; removals are always voted on.
If a vote is necessary for any additions, the curator will call for voting on those additions. At the curator's discretion, posts in the discussion that qualify as votes may be counted as votes; these posts will be noted when the vote is called for. Further discussion, beyond reiterating personal reasons for voting alongside the vote, is discouraged while the vote is going on. Addition must "win" a majority (by at least one vote) for the quote to be added.
If any quote removals have community support, the curator will call for voting on those removals, separately from any voting for additions. Removal must "win" a majority (by at least one vote) for the quote to be removed.


It is believed that these changes will drastically streamline the thread's voting process, without altering the end result in nearly all cases.

Please bold your yes/no vote, it'll make it easier for me to notice when I go through and count everything.
Since a rule revision is not a quote itself, the normal request not to discuss the item being voted on does not apply.
In keeping with the intent of (the current) Rule F4, the revision will need to have at least two more votes in favor than votes against to be accepted.
Voting will be open until April 2nd, 6PM PDT.
And this is me voting yes.

[Kish]

Yes .

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I vote yes. This strikes me as a healthy modernization of the voting procedures

[Sir_Norbert]

The only responsible option is the most cautious one.

Sir_Norbert votes Yes.

[pearl jam]

I also vote yes.

[Throknor]

Yes is not ten characters long.

[Tzardok]

I vote Aye.

[Metastachydium]

Tear down the world the previous version of the rules! Murder everyone! Piss on their its graves!

Metastachydium, the Happy Little Blue Flower of Whirling Death for Humans votes YES.

[Precure]

Will we be able to re-introduce the previously outvoted quotes? If so, my vote is yes.

[Peelee]

Will we be able to previously outvoted quotes?

I think you might have there.

[Precure]

I think you might have there.

Mysterious vanishable lines

[Jasdoif]

Will we be able to re-introduce the previously outvoted quotes?You will continue to be able to propose quotes that aren't in the Index, yes. (Being absent from the Index due being voted down/out is only a factor when the vote is so recent that it reasonably still reflects current consensus.)

[Joerg]

I vote yes.

[Gwynfrid]

Yes, my vote is.

[Jasdoif]

My poor time management aside, that was straightforward enough....

The rule revision passed; 11 for, 0 against.
The Index rules have been updated.

[Peelee]

So i know I'm a week late, but i have to strenuously object to this absolute sham of a process. Notably, the frankly obscene lack of the following:

We still have a banana in charge. Hi. :smalltongue:

[Jasdoif]

So i know I'm a week late, but i have to strenuously object to this absolute sham of a process. Notably, the frankly obscene lack of the following:
We still have a banana in charge. Hi. :smalltongue: I try to keep a serious tone with systemic changes; anyone having an issue with curation could require moderator interpretation, so the less you have to wonder "was this serious?" the better.
For similar reasons, the thread rules describe for potentially anyone on the face of the planet how we intend to conduct ourselves; not betraying that implicit trust is, in fact, Serious Businesstm.
I change that line in the normal votes for each thread, so your quote's a bit incomplete:

We've left a banana in charge. Hi. :smalltongue:

There's still a banana in charge. Hi. :smalltongue:

There's still a banana in charge. Hi. :smalltongue:

We still have a banana in charge. Hi. :smalltongue: (I neither confirm nor deny a zapped status.)

[Peelee]

I try to keep a serious tone with systemic changes; anyone having an issue with curation could require moderator interpretation, so the less you have to wonder "was this serious?" the better.
For similar reasons, the thread rules describe for potentially anyone on the face of the planet how we intend to conduct ourselves; not betraying that implicit trust is, in fact, Serious Businesstm.
I change that line in the normal votes for each thread, so your quote's a bit incomplete:




In order:
That's bananas!
Just run it as a banana republic.
Hey, i had to an annoying search to find even that much. Add some pun about bananas.

[Jasdoif]

Add some pun about bananas.You've got your A/2/III thing, I've got my direct/overview/amuse thing; it all stems from there, no matter how much we might slip up on the way to our musallaneous and sundry ends.

[Peelee]

You've got your A/2/III thing, I've got my direct/overview/amuse thing; it all stems from there, no matter how much we might slip up on the way to our musallaneous and sundry ends.

Fair, but that line was less a rrwuest/demand to you and more a [insert X here] comment on my third point not being a joke on bananas. I could have written it better.

[Jasdoif]

Fair, but that line was less a rrwuest/demand to you and more a [insert X here] comment on my third point not being a joke on bananas.Obviously. Responding was funnier, though :smalltongue:

[Peelee]

Obviously. Responding was funnier, though :smalltongue:

I do see the appeal.

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: RISE FROM THE GRAVE, OH THREAD OF OLD!

[Ruck]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: RISE FROM THE GRAVE, OH THREAD OF OLD!

"But Answers Post Day? Well... I like Answers Post Day."

[b_jonas]

New 2023-11 answers post on Patreon. (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361) It's not very long, and most of the questions aren't relevant to this thread. We should probably include question 8 that says Tarquin only has two children. We might include question 7 about a Dune reference and 12 on what Malack says about Nergal. We absolutely have to exclude question 4 due to forum rules, and should probably exclude question 10 too to be safe.

Update: We should also consider adding an entry for a recent forum answer saying that Wrecan is a Crusader (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25915532), whatever that is.

[Tzardok]

Crussader is a class from Tome of Battle. Like the other martial initiator classes, the swordsage and the warblade, it uses martial maneuver, but it has a religious flavour.

[Kish]

Include all. I'm unaware of any forum rule saying "don't mention the OGL," and while I wouldn't personally find it tragic if #4 and 10 weren't included, I can see why people asked them and why people may still wonder about them if they don't see the answers.

Also include "Rich had no idea anyone thought Tarquin was a swordsage."

[Provengreil]

Crussader is a class from Tome of Battle. Like the other martial initiator classes, the swordsage and the warblade, it uses martial maneuver, but it has a religious flavour.

Also, I feel like that was specified in the comic, but I can't find it somehow.

[Kish]

Greg called him "crusader." What was ambiguous until Rich posted that, was whether he meant "heavy-armored guy from the Tome of Battle" or "guy who crusades and will be biting off more than he can chew if he tries to crusade at me."

[Peelee]

Greg called him "crusader." What was ambiguous until Rich posted that, was whether he meant "heavy-armored guy from the Tome of Battle" or "guy who crusades and will be biting off more than he can chew if he tries to crusade at me."

Or someone who goes on some damned-fool idealistic crusade.

[Ruck]

Greg called him "crusader." What was ambiguous until Rich posted that, was whether he meant "heavy-armored guy from the Tome of Battle" or "guy who crusades and will be biting off more than he can chew if he tries to crusade at me."


Or someone who goes on some damned-fool idealistic crusade.

I believe that was the implication of the second description, that vampire!Durkon would help him find out just how foolish if he continued.

Anyway, I think in this case we can reasonably say "it can be two things!"

[Sir_Norbert]

What is the OGL?

Was "swordsage" a popular theory or just one person's idea?

[Peelee]

I believe that was the implication of the second description, that vampire!Durkon would help him find out just how foolish if he continued.

Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

[Gwynfrid]

What is the OGL?

Was "swordsage" a popular theory or just one person's idea?

This page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Game_License) explains the OGL and the controversy that raged in the D&D community in January of this year.

For the "swordsage" theory, as I don't follow the relevant threads, I don't have the faintest idea.

About the answers in today's post:

#1 should not be included. It's redundant with this quote, (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=12580058#post12580058) and even more so, with answer 2B in the Geekademia interview.

#11 should also be left out. It's not about the comic. Also, it's going to be obsolete soon enough.

I think all the others should be included, as well as the one about Wrecan being a Crusader.

[Jasdoif]

I guess I was wondering when the new procedure would get its first run....



#11 should also be left out. It's not about the comic. Also, it's going to be obsolete soon enough.It also runs afoul of Rule B3, being exclusively about merchandise availability, and on that basis I will not be considering it for inclusion.

Similarly, #13 cannot be done justice in this format would also run afoul of Rule B3.


Now let's see, in theory this can handle non-numeric labels so let's try the post as "P1" to distinguish the forum post from the Patreon answers post (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)....



#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5?
Great.
1
1
Vote-able
In Favor: Kish

Against: Gwynfrid


2
What makes a good magic system?
Lack of bad drama.
2
0
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish

Against: :smallbiggrin:


3
Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream?
No.
2
0
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish

Against: :smallbiggrin:


4
Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic?
No.
2
1
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish

Against: b_jonas


5
Why is your Patreon avatar Elan?
Representative accuracy.
2
0
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish

Against: :smallbiggrin:


6
How did you pick which Norse Gods made it into the Northern Pantheon?
Matching names to reasons.
2
0
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish

Against: :smallbiggrin:


7
Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie?
No.
2
0
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish

Against: :smallbiggrin:


8
Why was Tarquin obsessed with Elan and Nale?
He saw extremes of personality.
3
0
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish, b_jonas

Against: :smallbiggrin:


9
Do you read the forums anymore?
No.
2
0
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish

Against: :smallbiggrin:


10
Do you speed the plot up after reader feedback?
Not anymore.
2
1
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish

Against: b_jonas


12
Does Neutrality fit death gods better than Evil?
Only sometimes.
2
0
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish

Against: :smallbiggrin:


P1
Wrecan is technically a Crusader.
...yes.
3
0
Include
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish, Ruck

Against: :smallbiggrin:

[Tzardok]

I'm in favour pf including all that are in the table.

[Kish]

Was "swordsage" a popular theory or just one person's idea?
More than one person was advocating it, but where it came from I never knew. It showed up long after his last appearance in the comic.

But since more than one person was advocating it, I do urge actually including that Rich said "no" to it, not just that Wrecan is a Crusader.

[hroþila]

I think the main takeaway from #9 is not "I don't read the forums anymore" (which is not new information), but rather "uh yeah maybe take my forum posts with a grain of salt"

[Metastachydium]

Okay. This one's a lot less informative than I hoped, but hey. Not gonna complain about New Word of the Giant! Anyway,

3; 4; 5: I find these supremely irrelevant; voting AGAINST including them.

6; 8; 9 especially if hroþila's suggested modification of the takeaway is considered); 10; 12; P1: should take their rightful place in the index; voting IN FAVOUR of including them.

I'm aggressively MEH on 1; 2; and 7; I'll officially ABSTAIN on those fronts.

[b_jonas]

I vote include 7 (Dune), 8 (Tarquin's children), (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361) P1 (Wrecan is a Crusader) (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25915532).
I vote exclude 4, 9, 10, 11, 13. (The M:tG card Rocket-Powered Turbo Slug (https://scryfall.com/card/unh/87/rocket-powered-turbo-slug) is a good enough representation of Laser Snail for me.)

[Tubercular Ox]

More than one person was advocating it, but where it came from I never knew. It showed up long after his last appearance in the comic.

But since more than one person was advocating it, I do urge actually including that Rich said "no" to it, not just that Wrecan is a Crusader.

He didn't actually say no.



So, does this nix "Tarquin is a Swordsage"? Cuz that Ballista Throw and the constricting stance were nova hot.

OMG, it nixes the Blue Carbuncle, too. Unless that's an ordinary Carbuncle.
I honestly enjoy having had no awareness of either of these two theories.

EDIT: Wrecan is technically a Crusader so there's still some flexibility in each category anyway.

I believe he didn't say no because I was wrong about the Blue Carbuncle and he didn't correct me. I told him it was nixed, he did not say it wasn't nixed, and then I found out the Carbuncle in the picture was actually a Blue Carbuncle.

So I'd say he's in full poker face here and not to be taken at face value. I won't go into semantics in this thread, I'm only asking that the quote not be summarized as, "No."

[Sir_Norbert]

Voting exclude #7 (too trivial), include all the rest.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Vote against all except the Crusader & swordsage ones. The latter of which I add my voice to Kish's to actually include.

As truly minor note: could you change the crusader id to F1? P being both initial of "post" and "patreon" is not helping.

GW

[Aidan]

I vote to exclude 3,4, and 7

I vote to include all others.

[Jasdoif]

I think the main takeaway from #9 is not "I don't read the forums anymore" (which is not new information), but rather "uh yeah maybe take my forum posts with a grain of salt"That's not new information either, though.


This is why I'm sorta starting to hate the out-of-context quoting; because I tend to exaggerate when speaking extemporaneously and describe things out of proportion to what I really intended when I wrote the scenes. I should learn to just stop talking about it, because everytime I say something I end up changing everyone's view of the events in the story, and I would be better served letting the story stand on its own and ignoring the critics.And, given the borderline histrionics that occurred when the Giant asked us not to index posts outside the OotS subforum unless they had something to do with OotS (which was only three months before the quoted section above), I'm a bit leery of trying to focus on the subject.

Still, what's everyone else think?


I won't go into semantics in this thread, I'm only asking that the quote not be summarized as, "No."I have a distaste for extrapolation when it comes to the entry descriptions, if that's what you're asking.


As truly minor note: could you change the crusader id to F1? P being both initial of "post" and "patreon" is not helping.Done.


So that brings us to....


#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5?
Great.
4
2
Include
In Favor: Aidan, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid


2
What makes a good magic system?
Lack of bad drama.
5
1
Include
In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok

Against: Grey_Wolf_c


3
Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream?
No.
4
3
Vote-able
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Metastachydium


4
Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic?
No.
4
4
Vote-able
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Metastachydium, b_jonas


5
Why is your Patreon avatar Elan?
Representative accuracy.
5
2
Include
In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Metastachydium


6
How did you pick which Norse Gods made it into the Northern Pantheon?
Matching names to reasons.
6
1
Include
In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok

Against: Grey_Wolf_c


7
Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie?
No.
4
3
Vote-able
In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish, Tzardok, b_jonas

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Sir_Norbert


8
Why was Tarquin obsessed with Elan and Nale?
He saw extremes of personality.
7
1
Include
In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas

Against: Grey_Wolf_c


9
Do you read the forums anymore?
No.
6
2
Include
In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, b_jonas


10
Do you speed the plot up after reader feedback?
Not anymore.
6
2
Include
In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, b_jonas


12
Does Neutrality fit death gods better than Evil?
Only sometimes.
6
1
Include
In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok

Against: Grey_Wolf_c


F1
Wrecan is technically a Crusader.
...yes.
9
0
Include
In Favor: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Ruck, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas

Against: :smallbiggrin:





Poster
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
12
F1


Kish
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Ruck











:smallbiggrin:


Gwynfrid
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Tzardok
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Metastachydium


:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


b_jonas



:smallannoyed:


:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:

:smallbiggrin:


Sir_Norbert
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Grey_Wolf_c
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:


Aidan
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:

[Joerg]

I'm in favor of including #7, though I would prefer a wording like "what is the actual reference in that strip".

[137beth]

I'm in favor of including all of them.

[Kish]

I believe he didn't say no because I was wrong about the Blue Carbuncle and he didn't correct me. I told him it was nixed, he did not say it wasn't nixed, and then I found out the Carbuncle in the picture was actually a Blue Carbuncle.

I'm not seeing where you found that out, Ox.

That said, I would prefer it be phrased as "Rich never knew that anyone thought Tarquin was a swordsage or the carbuncle from Good Deeds Gone Unpunished was a Blue Carbuncle," which covers exactly what he said while still allowing people to treat "swordsage" as a type of "fighter" if they so choose (which, to be clear, I never would. Average BAB, only proficient in light armor, proprietary access to the Shadow Hand discipline: if Tarquin was on the Rogue poster then I'd be saying "huh, maybe there's actually something to the swordsage idea").

That said, this seems to be being ignored anyway and I am confused. Jasdoif?

[Jasdoif]

That said, this seems to be being ignored anyway and I am confused. Jasdoif?As (I think I) mentioned, I don't like to extrapolate for the entries (as opposed to the kind of interpolation necessary for summarizing), in much the same vein as my refusal to pass judgement on something the Giant's said; my view is that the Index should be providing neutral information for readers to make their own subjective interpretations from.

To that end....


So, does this nix "Tarquin is a Swordsage"? Cuz that Ballista Throw and the constricting stance were nova hot.

OMG, it nixes the Blue Carbuncle, too. Unless that's an ordinary Carbuncle.I honestly enjoy having had no awareness of either of these two theories.

EDIT: Wrecan is technically a Crusader so there's still some flexibility in each category anyway.The Giant enjoying his ignorance of the "Tarquin is a Swordsage" theory is a personal preference that does not touch on the comic directly; for an entry this has no value one way or the other. Same with...whatever sequence of words is encompassing the Blue Carbuncle. Conversely, Wrecan technically being a Crusader does touch directly on a character in the comic and specific wording used in the comic; in the (highly likely) case the post gets an entry, that will be all it mentions.

[Gwynfrid]

As (I think I) mentioned, I don't like to extrapolate for the entries (as opposed to the kind of interpolation necessary for summarizing), in much the same vein as my refusal to pass judgement on something the Giant's said; my view is that the Index should be providing neutral information for readers to make their own subjective interpretations from.

To that end....
The Giant enjoying his ignorance of the "Tarquin is a Swordsage" theory is a personal preference that does not touch on the comic directly; for an entry this has no value one way or the other. Same with...whatever sequence of words is encompassing the Blue Carbuncle. Conversely, Wrecan technically being a Crusader does touch directly on a character in the comic and specific wording used in the comic; in the (highly likely) case the post gets an entry, that will be all it mentions.

Fully agree on all counts.

[Ruck]

Given that Rich has confirmed fan questions before (e.g. Girard's alignment) and given more detailed answers to certain questions even in this answer set, I think "No" to "Is Tarquin a Swordsage?" is a logical and safe extrapolation from his answer.

I think #7 if included would be better served with the full answer by way of explanation.

I'll have to think of any other possible suggestions on other questions.

[Kish]

Given that Rich has confirmed fan questions before (e.g. Girard's alignment) and given more detailed answers to certain questions even in this answer set, I think "No" to "Is Tarquin a Swordsage?" is a logical and safe extrapolation from his answer.
I concur, and do not see any logical way to read "I was unaware of both theories" to not indicate "no, I did not mean to convey either of the two things you just asked me about." If he meant for Tarquin to be a swordsage then it wouldn't be a theory and him being unaware of it would suggest he's suffering from profound amnesia.

[LadyEowyn]

I vote Yes for 6, 8, 12, and F1, and no for all the others.

[ti'esar]

Honestly, I don't see any reason not to include all.


Also, I feel like that was specified in the comic, but I can't find it somehow.

Just for the record, it's this strip. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1009.html) Though I agree that - speaking as someone who did assume that was referring to the class, but who also barely knows anything about said class - it's a sufficiently ambiguous reference that it does no harm to add the post.

[b_jonas]

Wait, I get it! You know how a lot of strip titles have a double meaning, right? Sometimes The Giant does it because readers often see the strip title first, so he wants the strip title to not spoil the strip contents. The title of #1288 is “Plus They're Not Even Blue” (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1288.html) has a double meaning in a different way. It was about the Carbuncle from GDGU the whole time!

[Ron Miel]

wrong thread?

[Kish]

No, not the wrong thread.

[Jasdoif]

In case anyone's missed it, there's a new answers post over on Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361); and a new forum post over...here, "cleverly" labelled as F1 on the table to keep everything together:



#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5?
Great.
6
3
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid, LadyEowyn


2
What makes a good magic system?
Lack of bad drama.
7
2
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn


3
Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream?
No.
6
4
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium


4
Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic?
No.
6
5
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, b_jonas


5
Why is your Patreon avatar Elan?
Representative accuracy.
7
3
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium


6
How did you pick which Norse Gods made it into the Northern Pantheon?
Matching names to reasons.
9
1
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c


7
Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie?
No.
7
4
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Joerg, Kish, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Sir_Norbert


8
Why was Tarquin obsessed with Elan and Nale?
He saw extremes of personality.
10
1
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c


9
Do you read the forums anymore?
No.
8
3
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, b_jonas


10
Do you speed the plot up after reader feedback?
Not anymore.
8
3
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, b_jonas


12
Does Neutrality fit death gods better than Evil?
Only sometimes.
9
1
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c


F1
Wrecan is technically a Crusader.
...yes.
12
0
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Ruck, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: :smallbiggrin:





Poster
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
12
F1


Kish
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Ruck











:smallbiggrin:


Gwynfrid
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Tzardok
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Metastachydium


:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


b_jonas



:smallannoyed:


:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:

:smallbiggrin:


Sir_Norbert
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Grey_Wolf_c
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:


Aidan
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Joerg






:smallbiggrin:







137beth
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


LadyEowyn
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


ti'esar
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:




...though I would prefer a wording like "what is the actual reference in that strip".To be clear, as this has come up twice now and I did change this from the verbatim question copy/paste the color-coded summary tables have used for almost...four years (geez): the overly terse question paraphrases are not the final entry text; I write those up later, once dispositions have started settling. The primary purpose is hinting at question content so people don't have to go look at the Patreon post every time a question number comes up...though it appears that the ancillary goal behind the change, highlighting where my interpretation of what's the important part is contested, is paying for itself in spades.



Given that Rich has confirmed fan questions before (e.g. Girard's alignment) and given more detailed answers to certain questions even in this answer set, I think "No" to "Is Tarquin a Swordsage?" is a logical and safe extrapolation from his answer."Given that the Giant has answered fan questions before, I think this thing that doesn't answer a fan question is logically an answer to a fan question"...? o_O


I concur, and do not see any logical way to read "I was unaware of both theories" to not indicate "no, I did not mean to convey either of the two things you just asked me about." If he meant for Tarquin to be a swordsage then it wouldn't be a theory and him being unaware of it would suggest he's suffering from profound amnesia.While I can follow this, what's unstated is the implicit leap from "I did not mean to convey either of the two things you just asked me about" to "I did mean to convey the absence of the the two things you just asked me about"...<insert platitude about "absence of evidence" here/> Perhaps more importantly, I find it entirely plausible that the Giant did not nail Tarquin down to a specific class build...a scenario in which "Tarquin is not a Swordsage" would be technically accurate but also misleading.


In any case, as of yet I'm unmoved to laxen my standards for the Index that are intended to obviate me having to make these subjective calls let other people make these subjective calls themselves.

[Kish]

While I can follow this, what's unstated is the implicit leap from "I did not mean to convey either of the two things you just asked me about" to "I did mean to convey the absence of the the two things you just asked me about"...<insert platitude about "absence of evidence" here/> Perhaps more importantly, I find it entirely plausible that the Giant did not nail Tarquin down to a specific class build...a scenario in which "Tarquin is not a Swordsage" would be technically accurate but also misleading.

Sure, that's why I wouldn't phrase it that way, but would include the information that Rich did not intend Tarquin to be a swordsage or the carbuncle to be a Blue Carbuncle, which is relevant to both those characters. And would still let a reader conclude "Swordsage comes under fighter, so Tarquin can be one," if they believe the stated premise there.

(Which does not imply I do not now understand that you don't intend to.)

[Tubercular Ox]

The Carbuncle is blue. If you zoom in on the Monster Class design you can see it has a blue stone in its forehead.

This is the entirety of the "theory": That Rich would draw a Carbuncle living in Azure City as blue instead of red. Every description of it insists it has a red stone in its forehead, probably because "Carbuncle" is also a word for any red stone.

My goof was thinking the whole thing would be blue instead of just the stone.

The relevance to this thread is that Rich had a bag full of blue carbuncles he wanted to sell off when he told us that he'd never heard the "theory" before.

[Kish]

Ox, if he didn't use scare quotes, don't use scare quotes on one word he used, unless you actually want to try to convince the thread "sometimes Rich lies" should be a premise here.

(Unstated sub-bedrock premise for the ox's asserted hypothesis here: Rich must recognize that the world holds normal carbuncles with red stones, and a separate species of Blue Carbuncles with blue stones, not simply carbuncles with stones of some color or other.)

[Tubercular Ox]

Ox, if he didn't use scare quotes, don't use scare quotes on one word he used, unless you actually want to try to convince the thread "sometimes Rich lies" should be a premise here.

(Unstated sub-bedrock premise for the ox's asserted hypothesis here: Rich must recognize that the world holds normal carbuncles with red stones, and a separate species of Blue Carbuncles with blue stones, not simply carbuncles with stones of some color or other.)

I did not call it a theory, Rich did. That is not a lie, but it still merits making a distinction.

Also, I am embarrassed to call, "Maybe the Azure City Carbuncle will be blue," a theory.

[Kish]

If by "Blue Carbuncle" you mean nothing more than the tautological "his stone would be blue if he was drawn in color," sure.

[Jasdoif]

Sure, that's why I wouldn't phrase it that way, but would include the information that Rich did not intend Tarquin to be a swordsage or the carbuncle to be a Blue Carbuncle, which is relevant to both those characters. And would still let a reader conclude "Swordsage comes under fighter, so Tarquin can be one," if they believe the stated premise there.

(Which does not imply I do not now understand that you don't intend to.)So not the hard no I saw when the subject was brought up here and thought everyone was talking about.

Hmm...That's a viable approach for Tarquin, I think.

[hroþila]

Should the description of #12 allude to the confirmation that Nergal is not Neutral? I know I've been involved in more than one debate on that point in this forum

[Jasdoif]

Should the description of #12 allude to the confirmation that Nergal is not Neutral? I know I've been involved in more than one debate on that point in this forumThat one'll probably get multiple entries, one of which is going to be like "Malack (and Nergal) are Evil".

I would be remiss not to mention the potential usefulness for Tzardok's deities thread, as well.

[Tzardok]

I'll link the post there as soon as the comment has been properly archived here; the current proof for Nergal's Evil alignment (the "unholy will" quote) is a bit thin.

[Peelee]

Should the description of #12 allude to the confirmation that Nergal is not Neutral? I know I've been involved in more than one debate on that point in this forum


I'll link the post there as soon as the comment has been properly archived here; the current proof for Nergal's Evil alignment (the "unholy will" quote) is a bit thin.

Imean I'd argue the whole "desire for industrialized continental holocaust" bit would settle things but I'm an optimist.

[Tzardok]

Imean I'd argue the whole "desire for industrialized continental holocaust" bit would settle things but I'm an optimist.

One should think so, but I had enough people argue that this is just be Malack's plan, who would be mistaken about what his god actually wants. Solid evidence is always better. *shrug*

[Reboot]

I concur, and do not see any logical way to read "I was unaware of both theories" to not indicate "no, I did not mean to convey either of the two things you just asked me about." If he meant for Tarquin to be a swordsage then it wouldn't be a theory and him being unaware of it would suggest he's suffering from profound amnesia.

You're saying this at the same time as he's pointing out an instance of a character using verbal slight of hand, saying something completely accurate which doesn't actually answer the question?

[Peelee]

One should think so, but I had enough people argue that this is just be Malack's plan, who would be mistaken about what his god actually wants. Solid evidence is always better. *shrug*

Ah, the ol' "Cap'n Crunch: Whoops, All Mass Murder!" defense.

[Ruck]

You're saying this at the same time as he's pointing out an instance of a character using verbal slight of hand, saying something completely accurate which doesn't actually answer the question?

What motive would Rich have to deceive us?

[ti'esar]

One should think so, but I had enough people argue that this is just be Malack's plan, who would be mistaken about what his god actually wants. Solid evidence is always better. *shrug*

TBF, though the specific circumstances here made it pretty unlikely a LN god having a LE cleric is explicitly normal within D&D rules. (There's actually a much more reasonable - at least until Utterly Dwarfed, IMO - debate over whether Redcloak is fully acting in accordance with the Dark One's will despite them both being LE.)

[Throknor]

What motive would Rich have to deceive us?
He's misled to preserve surprises before but that doesn't really apply to a question he could simply have chosen to not answer.

[Ruck]

He's misled to preserve surprises before but that doesn't really apply to a question he could simply have chosen to not answer.

Indeed, it does not.

[Jasdoif]

Let's see....



#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5?
Great.
6
3
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid, LadyEowyn


2
What makes a good magic system?
Lack of bad drama.
7
2
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn


3
Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream?
No.
6
4
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium


4
Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic?
No.
6
5
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, b_jonas


5
Why is your Patreon avatar Elan?
Representative accuracy.
7
3
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium


6
How did you pick which Norse Gods made it into the Northern Pantheon?
Matching names to reasons.
9
1
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c


7
Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie?
No.
7
4
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Joerg, Kish, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Sir_Norbert


8
Why was Tarquin obsessed with Elan and Nale?
He saw extremes of personality.
10
1
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c


9
Do you read the forums anymore?
No.
8
3
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, b_jonas


10
Do you speed the plot up after reader feedback?
Not anymore.
8
3
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, b_jonas


12
Does Neutrality fit death gods better than Evil?
Only sometimes.
10
1
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, hroþila, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c


F1
Wrecan is technically a Crusader.
...yes.
12
0
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Ruck, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: :smallbiggrin:





Poster
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F1


Kish
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Ruck











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Gwynfrid
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Tzardok
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Metastachydium


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b_jonas



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Sir_Norbert
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Grey_Wolf_c
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Aidan
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Joerg






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137beth
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LadyEowyn
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ti'esar
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hroþila










:smallbiggrin:




Seems stable enough that I should get started on entries....Ooh, fun; looks like we could be breaking the threshold into four posts o_o


Tenative Updates

🍍🍌Elan and Nale's Parentage
How did it affect their alignment? The Giant can't fully answer because of events yet to be revealed. Elan spared Nale's life because of Elan's understanding of what it means to be good. See also here(#8) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361) ("They are his only kids").
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌Elan's Dune Comment in #689(#7) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...it's a reference to the music video for Fatboy Slim's Weapon of Choice, which quotes Dune."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌Malack (and Nergal) are Evil(#12) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"He never actually says that either he or Nergal is Neutral, merely that it would be logically consistent if they were."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌On Death Gods and Neutrality(#12) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"What Malack says is entirely reasonable, but so is the idea that a culture could fear death so much that they conceive its personification as inherently malevolent...."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌On Not Updating Past D&D 3.5(#1) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...I feel absolutely great about sticking with 3.5".
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌On What Makes Good Magic for a Story(#2) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"I like my magic like I like my Star Trek technology: Full of nonsense terms that the audience has to infer the meaning of based on contextual clues."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍍🍌On the Forum and the Comic(#9) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"I don't read the GITP forums at all anymore, either in or out of the OOTS context." See also here and here.
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌Selecting the Northern Deities(#6) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"I mostly worked backwards from how I wanted the vote in the Godsmoot to shake out".
#1291
2023/11/30


🍍🍌The Comic Cannot Be Posted on a Consistent Basis(#9) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/39917949)
"What you're suggesting is not something I can actually do." See also here(#10) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361) ("So the remainder of the comic is going to take as long as it takes....")
#1291
2023/11/30


🍍🍌The Comic Is Not a Game Manual(#4) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...and has never had anything to do with the OGL at all".
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌The Giant Will Not Be Streaming D&D(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...but I can't help consider whether or not I would have ever tried D&D if I had thought the games might be broadcast publicly. I sincerely think not."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌The Giant on Using Elan as His Avatar(#5) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...for situations where the character image is going to...possibly be interpreted by newcomers as a depiction of me, I think it's better for everyone if I...use someone who matches me demographically."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌Wrecan is a Crusader
Also, Tarquin wasn't envisioned as a swordsage.
#1291
2023/11/27






He's misled to preserve surprises before but that doesn't really apply to a question he could simply have chosen to not answer.While the mental image of HPoH's gaze working through the Giant's screen, compelling him to press the "Submit Reply" button, is amusing....I don't think choosing to reply is the determining factor you're after :smalltongue:

[Precure]

Exclude all. I don't see any new information.

[Ruck]

While the mental image of HPoH's gaze working through the Giant's screen, compelling him to press the "Submit Reply" button, is amusing....I don't think choosing to reply is the determining factor you're after :smalltongue:

For the record, I think "Tarquin wasn't envisioned as a Swordsage" is fine. (I think it's true, and if we don't want to say "no" because he didn't definitely say "no," then I think this is a fair compromise that represents his intentions.)

[Kish]

Indeed, sounds good.

[Sir_Norbert]

This isn't directly connected to the current vote, but I noticed on one of the entries, "Elan and Nale's Parentage -- How did it affect their alignment? The Giant can't fully answer because of events yet to be revealed." The wording for that one might need to be updated now that we're a long way past those events.

[ReaderAt2046]

I vote to Include 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, and F1 and to Exclude 4 and 7

[Jasdoif]

Looks like we're on another page!



In case anyone's missed it, there's a new answers post over on Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361); and a new forum post over...here, "cleverly" labelled as F1 on the table to keep everything together:



#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5?
Great.
7
4
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid, LadyEowyn, Precure


2
What makes a good magic system?
Lack of bad drama.
8
3
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure


3
Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream?
No.
7
5
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure


4
Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic?
No.
6
7
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure, ReaderAt2046, b_jonas


5
Why is your Patreon avatar Elan?
Representative accuracy.
8
4
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure


6
How did you pick which Norse Gods made it into the Northern Pantheon?
Matching names to reasons.
10
2
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Precure


7
Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie?
No.
7
6
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Joerg, Kish, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert


8
Why was Tarquin obsessed with Elan and Nale?
He saw extremes of personality.
11
2
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Precure


9
Do you read the forums anymore?
No.
9
4
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure, b_jonas


10
Do you speed the plot up after reader feedback?
Not anymore.
9
4
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure, b_jonas


12
Does Neutrality fit death gods better than Evil?
Only sometimes.
11
2
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, hroþila, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Precure


F1
Wrecan is technically a Crusader.
...yes.
13
1
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Ruck, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: Precure





Poster
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2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
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F1


Kish
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Ruck











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Gwynfrid
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Tzardok
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Metastachydium


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b_jonas



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Aidan
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Joerg






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137beth
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LadyEowyn
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ti'esar
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hroþila










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Precure
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ReaderAt2046
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This isn't directly connected to the current vote, but I noticed on one of the entries, "Elan and Nale's Parentage -- How did it affect their alignment? The Giant can't fully answer because of events yet to be revealed." The wording for that one might need to be updated now that we're a long way past those events.Good point...Okay, so if I mention the Elan-and-Nale part of that post in the similar Elan-and-Tarquin entry, and make the "only kids" thing its own entry....


Tentative Updates

🍌Elan and Nale are Tarquin's Only Children(#8) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...Tarquin would have been highly aware of the fact that multiple children means multiple heirs...a potential threat to him."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍍🍌Elan is (Still) Chaotic Good
Elan let Tarquin fall because he was using a different interpretation of Chaotic Good. See also here, about the similar situation with Nale.
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌Elan's Dune Comment in #689(#7) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...it's a reference to the music video for Fatboy Slim's Weapon of Choice, which quotes Dune."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌Malack (and Nergal) are Evil(#12) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"He never actually says that either he or Nergal is Neutral, merely that it would be logically consistent if they were."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌On Death Gods and Neutrality(#12) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"What Malack says is entirely reasonable, but so is the idea that a culture could fear death so much that they conceive its personification as inherently malevolent...."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌On Not Updating Past D&D 3.5(#1) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...I feel absolutely great about sticking with 3.5".
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌On What Makes Good Magic for a Story(#2) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"I like my magic like I like my Star Trek technology: Full of nonsense terms that the audience has to infer the meaning of based on contextual clues."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍍🍌On the Forum and the Comic(#9) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"I don't read the GITP forums at all anymore, either in or out of the OOTS context." See also here and here.
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌Selecting the Northern Deities(#6) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"I mostly worked backwards from how I wanted the vote in the Godsmoot to shake out".
#1291
2023/11/30


🍍🍌The Comic Cannot Be Posted on a Consistent Basis(#9) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/39917949)
"What you're suggesting is not something I can actually do." See also here(#10) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361) ("So the remainder of the comic is going to take as long as it takes....")
#1291
2023/11/30


🍍🍌The Comic Is Not a Game Manual(#4) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...and has never had anything to do with the OGL at all".
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌The Giant Will Not Be Streaming D&D(#3) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...but I can't help consider whether or not I would have ever tried D&D if I had thought the games might be broadcast publicly. I sincerely think not."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌The Giant on Using Elan as His Avatar(#5) (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answers-post-8-93833361)
"...for situations where the character image is going to...possibly be interpreted by newcomers as a depiction of me, I think it's better for everyone if I...use someone who matches me demographically."
#1291
2023/11/30


🍌Wrecan is a Crusader
Also, Tarquin wasn't envisioned as a swordsage.
#1291
2023/11/27

[Gwynfrid]

I like how you've woven some of the answers with older comments. This does a good job, keeping the Index a consistent and well organized compilation.

By the way, I notice that I had commented a little too fast. Answer #3, about playing RPGs in public on Twitch or other, has nothing to do with the comic, so it doesn't belong in the Index. So, I'm reversing my previous position.

[Peelee]

[/tr]

5
Why is your Patreon avatar Elan?
Representative accuracy.



I vote we change the blurb to "Same reason Peelee's avatar is a dragon."

[TaiLiu]

I vote we change the blurb to "Same reason Peelee's avatar is a dragon."
You're a real dragon? :O

[hamishspence]

More than one person was advocating it, but where it came from I never knew. It showed up long after his last appearance in the comic.

But since more than one person was advocating it, I do urge actually including that Rich said "no" to it, not just that Wrecan is a Crusader.

Even back in November 2013 when the Tarquin arc was still going on, people were speculating that he was using Bo9S manuevers, some of which only swordsages could access by default (other classes had to spend multiple feats to gain access to high level manuevers).

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?311888-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XI-Can-Now-Argue-Three-Times-Per-Page/page14

[Jasdoif]

By the way, I notice that I had commented a little too fast. Answer #3, about playing RPGs in public on Twitch or other, has nothing to do with the comic, so it doesn't belong in the Index. So, I'm reversing my previous position.Okay.

...it's overkill to repost tables this soon since this doesn't change any dispositions, but darn it I spent too long getting this to support multiple posts per person :smalltongue:



#
Question
In Favor
Against
Disposition
Posters


1
How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5?
Great.
7
4
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid(#1), LadyEowyn, Precure


2
What makes a good magic system?
Lack of bad drama.
8
3
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid(#1), Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure


3
Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream?
No.
6
6
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid(#2), LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure


4
Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic?
No.
6
7
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid(#1), Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure, ReaderAt2046, b_jonas


5
Why is your Patreon avatar Elan?
Representative accuracy.
8
4
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid(#1), Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure


6
How did you pick which Norse Gods made it into the Northern Pantheon?
Matching names to reasons.
10
2
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid(#1), Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Precure


7
Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie?
No.
7
6
Vote-able
In Favor: 137beth, Gwynfrid(#1), Joerg, Kish, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert


8
Why was Tarquin obsessed with Elan and Nale?
He saw extremes of personality.
11
2
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid(#1), Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Precure


9
Do you read the forums anymore?
No.
9
4
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid(#1), Kish, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure, b_jonas


10
Do you speed the plot up after reader feedback?
Not anymore.
9
4
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid(#1), Kish, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure, b_jonas


12
Does Neutrality fit death gods better than Evil?
Only sometimes.
11
2
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Gwynfrid(#1), Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, hroþila, ti'esar

Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Precure


F1
Wrecan is technically a Crusader.
...yes.
13
1
Include
In Favor: 137beth, Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid(#1), Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, ReaderAt2046, Ruck, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas, ti'esar

Against: Precure





Poster
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
12
F1


137beth
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Aidan
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Grey_Wolf_c
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:


Gwynfrid(#1), (#2)
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Joerg






:smallbiggrin:







Kish
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


LadyEowyn
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Metastachydium


:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:

:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Precure
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:


ReaderAt2046
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Ruck











:smallbiggrin:


Sir_Norbert
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


Tzardok
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:


b_jonas



:smallannoyed:


:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed:

:smallbiggrin:


hroþila










:smallbiggrin:



ti'esar
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:
:smallbiggrin:





I vote we change the blurb to "Same reason Peelee's avatar is a dragon."But how are potential new readers going to know you don't want to frighten them away with the soulless gaze of a cartoonist?

[Metastachydium]

You're a real dragon? :O

He is, albeit a defective one. (Or a Red with a very convincing paint job. One of those two. (Also, I'm a FLOWER.))

[Peelee]

]
But how are potential new readers going to know you don't want to frighten them away with the soulless gaze of a cartoonist?
Ya know, fair point.

He is, albeit a defective one. (Or a Red with a very convincing paint job. One of those two.

Oh sure, just reduce what i like and don't like to be based purely off what i look like. I see how it is. Thats it, I'm going blossomivorous!

[Precure]

2.) Leo Once3333: After having worked within the constraints of D&Ds magic system so long, have you considered coming up with your own? What do you think makes a good magic system?

I think he probably doesn't remember it anymore, but Mr. Burlew actually created an alternative magic system as part of his old gaming articles:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080120064138/http://www.giantitp.com/articles/YPgbz2j3PckGjjviJU5.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20080120064138/http://www.giantitp.com/articles/YPgbz2j3PckGjjviJU5.html

[Jasdoif]

Looks like it's time....

In case anyone missed it (or simply forgot since...March), we have new voting rules in place...including skipping the PM phase, so!

UPDATE COMING, VOTING OPEN

The following posters have already given posts close enough to count as votes:

Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, b_jonas, ti'esar

If any of you have changed your mind, make a new post with your new vote.


The vote is yes or no on whether each of these contested entries, considered individually, should be included in the Index:



Entry
Yes Votes
No Votes
Voters


(1) How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5?
5
3
Yes Votes: Aidan, Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, ti'esar

No Votes: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure


(3) Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream?
4
5
Yes Votes: Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, ti'esar

No Votes: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure


(4) Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic?
3
7
Yes Votes: Kish, Sir_Norbert, ti'esar

No Votes: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure, ReaderAt2046, b_jonas


(7) Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie?
3
6
Yes Votes: Kish, b_jonas, ti'esar

No Votes: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert





Please bold your yes/no votes, it'll make it easier for me to notice.
Votes must be posted (as in, not PM-ed to me) to be counted.
To change your vote, make a new post with all your choices. I may not catch an edit, and one vote per person will simplify things if a vote gets called into question.
Avoid discussing the quote itself, outside of giving an explanation for your vote in the same post as your vote. This'll make it easier to catch up after the vote, if a new quote comes along while we're still voting.
In case of a tie, the entry will not be included.
We still have a banana in charge. Hi. :smalltongue: (I neither confirm nor deny a zapped status.)


Voting will be open until December 7th, 6PM PST.

The Index will be updated once the vote is concluded.

[TaiLiu]

He is, albeit a defective one. (Or a Red with a very convincing paint job. One of those two. (Also, I'm a FLOWER.))
I'm impressed you can tell different dragons apart. Usually I just distinguish dragons by their color.

You're a flower with a face! :smallbiggrin:


Looks like it's time....

In case anyone missed it (or simply forgot since...March), we have new voting rules in place...including skipping the PM phase, so!

UPDATE COMING, VOTING OPEN

The following posters have already given posts close enough to count as votes:

Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Kish, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, b_jonas, ti'esar

If any of you have changed your mind, make a new post with your new vote.


The vote is yes or no on whether each of these contested entries, considered individually, should be included in the Index:



Entry
Yes Votes
No Votes
Voters


(1) How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5?
5
3
Yes Votes: Aidan, Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, ti'esar

No Votes: Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure


(3) Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream?
4
5
Yes Votes: Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, ti'esar

No Votes: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure


(4) Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic?
3
7
Yes Votes: Kish, Sir_Norbert, ti'esar

No Votes: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure, ReaderAt2046, b_jonas


(7) Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie?
3
6
Yes Votes: Kish, b_jonas, ti'esar

No Votes: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert





Please bold your yes/no votes, it'll make it easier for me to notice.
Votes must be posted (as in, not PM-ed to me) to be counted.
To change your vote, make a new post with all your choices. I may not catch an edit, and one vote per person will simplify things if a vote gets called into question.
Avoid discussing the quote itself, outside of giving an explanation for your vote in the same post as your vote. This'll make it easier to catch up after the vote, if a new quote comes along while we're still voting.
In case of a tie, the entry will not be included.
We still have a banana in charge. Hi. :smalltongue: (I neither confirm nor deny a zapped status.)


Voting will be open until December 7th, 6PM PST.

The Index will be updated once the vote is concluded.
Votes: (1) Yes, (3) No, (4) Yes, and (7) No.

[Gwynfrid]

Votes:
(1) No
(3) No
(4) Yes
(7) Yes

[Tzardok]

Votes: 1. Yes
3. No
4. No
7. No

[b_jonas]

Please bold your yes/no votes, it'll make it easier for me to notice. Can you please specify what yes/no means? I've always been wary voting yes/no in this thread, because at one point the default stance was to include every snippet and we voted to exclude. Can I just keep voting include or exclude, in bold, and have my vote still count?

Update: ok, good, this time you did specify:

The vote is yes or no on whether each of these contested entries, considered individually, should be included in the Index:
But I'd still be more comfortable with exclude/include votes.

[Jasdoif]

Can I just keep voting include or exclude, in bold, and have my vote still count?You did post to "exclude" 4 and "include" 7, I did list it as a post I accepted as being a vote, and you are listed as voting "no" on 4 and voting "yes" on 7....

If it's apparent how you're voting (and that you're voting), I'll certainly represent it as such. (Strictly speaking the bold is a nicety, one much more valuable with short words like "yes" or "no")

[Bacon Elemental]

1) no

3) no

4) no

7) no

I dont feel that any of these merit inclusion.



I think 12)'s blurb missing out "Malack does not believe this and is deliberately misleading Durkon" is strange, incidentally. That's nice character motivation stuff that I'd actually missed beforehand.

[Joerg]

Votes:
1.yes
3.no
4.no
7.yes

[Rollin]

This is a work of reference.

1) No
3) No
4) No
7) No

[Gift Jeraff]

No to all.

Cataloging the poor guy's every breath is why he stopped engaging with us.

[137beth]

Yes to all.

[Jasdoif]

Looks like only the one about OOTS saying 3.5 passed the vote.



Entry
Yes Votes
No Votes
Voters


(1) How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5?
9
7
Yes Votes: 137beth, Aidan, Joerg, Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, TaiLiu, Tzardok, ti'esar

No Votes: Bacon Elemental, Gift Jeraff, Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid, LadyEowyn, Precure, Rollin


(3) Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream?
5
12
Yes Votes: 137beth, Kish, ReaderAt2046, Sir_Norbert, ti'esar

No Votes: Aidan, Bacon Elemental, Gift Jeraff, Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid, Joerg, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure, Rollin, TaiLiu, Tzardok


(4) Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic?
6
12
Yes Votes: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, TaiLiu, ti'esar

No Votes: Aidan, Bacon Elemental, Gift Jeraff, Grey_Wolf_c, Joerg, LadyEowyn, Metastachydium, Precure, ReaderAt2046, Rollin, Tzardok, b_jonas


(7) Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie?
6
11
Yes Votes: 137beth, Gwynfrid, Joerg, Kish, b_jonas, ti'esar

No Votes: Aidan, Bacon Elemental, Gift Jeraff, Grey_Wolf_c, LadyEowyn, Precure, ReaderAt2046, Rollin, Sir_Norbert, TaiLiu, Tzardok



The Index has been updated.


And sure enough, we are onto four posts now...Probably a good time to say that if anyone's got reorganization ideas, I'm happy to hear them; my script keeps categories from splitting across posts and the second post is only at like 65% of maximum post size, so a good split somewhere could squeeze the Index down into three posts again.



Thats it, I'm going blossomivorous!Does chamomile tea count?



I think 12)'s blurb missing out "Malack does not believe this and is deliberately misleading Durkon" is strange, incidentally. That's nice character motivation stuff that I'd actually missed beforehand.Hmm. It seems like it overlaps a lot with the entry saying Malack and Nergal are evil....What's everyone else think?

In any case, you'll likely be interested in this bit from Blood Runs in the Family:


One of the things I wanted to explore with the Malack storyline was the idea that civility did not equal justification...At a certain point, that courteous tone becomes a shield being used by vile people to cloak themselves in the air of legitimacy....Also, if you read the scene where Malack tries negotiate an end to hostilities, you'll note that he never actually offers for Tarquin and the Linear Guild to withdraw. That, too, is emblematic of false civility; he is using the trappings of a compromise to request a retreat and hoping that Durkon doesn't notice.

[Metastachydium]

Thats it, I'm going blossomivorous!

THAT'S NOT EVEN A REAL WOR… Oh, damn. I just revealed my position.


I'm impressed you can tell different dragons apart. Usually I just distinguish dragons by their color.

If it has a tall crest and isn't Green, it's probably (masquerading as) a Silver.


You're a flower with a face! :smallbiggrin:

It's a Form You Are Comfortable With.


Does chamomile tea count?

As EVIL MURDER? Yes. Yes, it does.

[Peelee]

THAT'S NOT EVEN A REAL WORÂ… Oh, damn. I just revealed my position.

If it makes you feel any better, I have the potential to specialize in counterintelligence. Detect Plants is a pretty basic requirement.


Does chamomile tea count?

Ya know, i actually had wild orange blossom tea just last night. With honey, obviously.

[ti'esar]

Quick question, but where is the quote from the Giant explaining that he came up with "37 million dwarf souls" (or whatever the number was) by googling the medieval population of Scandinavia indexed?

[137beth]

I think this is the post you are looking for (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?437655-Why-are-10-million-dwarf-souls-even-important&p=19745426&viewfull=1#post19745426).

[Jasdoif]

Quick question, but where is the quote from the Giant explaining that he came up with "37 million dwarf souls" (or whatever the number was) by googling the medieval population of Scandinavia indexed?

I think this is the post you are looking for (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?437655-Why-are-10-million-dwarf-souls-even-important&p=19745426&viewfull=1#post19745426).Indeed.



I do not understand comments that boil down to, "I don't think the plot works the way the text says it works." I understand that characters can lie or be mistaken, but at a certain point you have to understand that the only way for me to communicate non-visual information to you in the strip is through dialogue.

I do not crunch numbers when writing dialogue. Do you know how I picked 10 million? I googled the medieval population of Scandinavia and made it about the same. The more important point is that you should assume that the characters are more familiar with the relevant details than you are—and if they say, "Hey, this number is the right number!" than you, as a reader, should accept that as being true within this story unless the story gives you some clue otherwise (like a character saying, "Ten million? That doesn't sound right").

I promise you that the resolution to this story will not be, "Oh, hey, Hel did the math wrong!" In fact, I promise you that the exact number of dwarves will never matter at all, for any reason, ever, and that every single character will continue to act in a way consistent with all of Hel's math being correct and true. And if that bothers you on some math-level of your brain, just pretend that the words "ten million" are a typo and it should say whatever number you would feel would be big enough to make Hel's stated plan "make sense" to you, personally. Because it really doesn't matter. It's not like I could have possibly picked a number that would please everyone anyway.

It's included as the supporting link here:

Storytelling Mistakes?

[tr]
Assume Accuracy Unless Shown Otherwise
"It works because I say it works, and the rest of the story will be written as if it works," and dialog is how the comic conveys non-visual information.
#1000
2015/08/30

[TaiLiu]

And sure enough, we are onto four posts now...Probably a good time to say that if anyone's got reorganization ideas, I'm happy to hear them; my script keeps categories from splitting across posts and the second post is only at like 65% of maximum post size, so a good split somewhere could squeeze the Index down into three posts again.
No idea about organization.


Hmm. It seems like it overlaps a lot with the entry saying Malack and Nergal are evil....What's everyone else think?
I think it's novel information. Being evil is different from lying. I didn't realize Malack was deliberately lying to Durkon instead of just making philosophy talk.


If it has a tall crest and isn't Green, it's probably (masquerading as) a Silver.
A green dragon pretending to be silver. :O


It's a Form You Are Comfortable With.
It is! Which is weird cuz if I saw a flower with a face outside of this forum I would freak.

[Metastachydium]

A green dragon pretending to be silver. :O

I'm mostly thinking Red, Copper or Gold with a fake crest, but that's the idea, yes!


It is!

Hah!


Which is weird cuz if I saw a flower with a face outside of this forum I would freak.

Too much Undertale or do you just want to make this flower sad:

https://img.apmcdn.org/05deb1d96e7f08b99f1a0e9187ce011d1ab86d5d/uncropped/6b1ff0-20170320-global-happiness.jpg

…because if the latter, I'll politely ask you not to.