PAM 'kiting'

[da newt]

Probably a newb question, but it seems to me a good strategy for a character with PAM and reach weapon is to attack at 10' and then back up 5' so that the enemy triggers an OA when it moves within your range to attack - right?

[diplomancer]

Probably a newb question, but it seems to me a good strategy for a character with PAM and reach weapon is to attack at 10' and then back up 5' so that the enemy triggers an OA when it moves within your range to attack - right?

As long as you know that the other creature has only melee attacks of 5' reach, yes.

[Xihirli]

If you know they're going to attack you, yeah.

[darknite]

If you have the space to do this, then by all means do so.

[Tharkun]

This requires Sentinel as well to drop their speed to 0 at 10' distance. But it can be fun.

[nickl_2000]

This requires Sentinel as well to drop their speed to 0 at 10' distance. But it can be fun.

for maybe 2 rounds, then honestly it would get pretty boring. As an enemy I would walk away or just start throwing rocks at the person doing it.

[CheddarChampion]

Yes but if you move out of the enemy's reach to do so you will provoke an opportunity attack from them as well. Could be useful for dealing with an enemy quickly.

If you move 30' away after you attack from 10', they could dash up to you and start the above situation.
If you move to 65' away, they might ignore you or otherwise go for whatever ranged ability they have/can muster.

As others said, you also need the sentinel feat for proper kiting but even then you can miss. And they still might decide to ignore you if you aren't the only person they're fighting.

[Zuras]

This requires Sentinel as well to drop their speed to 0 at 10' distance. But it can be fun.


for maybe 2 rounds, then honestly it would get pretty boring. As an enemy I would walk away or just start throwing rocks at the person doing it.

PAM+Sentinel is an object lesson to DMs why single non-legendary creatures work poorly in 5e. Had a level 4 party wipe out a CR 10 Golem without a scratch using that combo.

[Cicciograna]

Obligatory link. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html)

[Sparky McDibben]

Things to watch for:


Terrain - Your DM will vary the crap out of this; difficult terrain can really screw with this strategy.
Reach - If the creature is Large or bigger, ask the DM if you can tell what their reach is. If they have 10 feet, well, this is going to hurt.
Enemy Variability - If the DM isn't a ****, you'll probably get to do your cool combo a few times per level. Then the DM will introduce archers, mages, etc, who can all attack at range and disrupt your cool ability.
Tactical Changes - The bad guys might just leave you alone after the first few times you do this, and go beat on your wizard. Sentinel can help with this.
Turnabout - It's fair play.

[da newt]

Thanks all. I thought it was too simple / easy. I'm trying to make sure I'm not leaving an opportunity on the table due to my ignorance.


For a generic 5' reach bad guy, move to w/in 10' - attack - back up to 15' - if they approach, I get an OA.

If I also have Sentinel, then my successful OA makes their speed = 0 and they stay 15' away (then I can rinse and repeat until they change tactics).

Without Sentinel, after my OA they continue in to 5' range and attack (and then if I leave without disengage they get an OA).

Right?

With PAM, does a bad guy moving out of 5' range from me still trigger an OA?

BTW, this is for my bugbear who currently swords & boards from 10' and runs, but I'm thinking the PAM feat will really help him.

[1Pirate]

Minor note: your reach is 10’ for an OA. Bugbears only get 15’ on their turn.

Enemies have to move more than 10’ away from you before the OA triggers if you’re using a reach weapon.

It’s a good strategy, but don’t expect it to be OP. My experience is that there’s usually multiple monsters that tie you down, or another player has a melee build that has to get within the monster’s reach anyway. Also, by the time PAM and Sentinel get online, you’re usually facing monsters with some ranged options.

[diplomancer]

One other thing good for doing that is a mount. You attack, your mount disengages, if they approach you, you attack, the mount disengages, etc (if you abuse this too much, DMs will look at the rules closely and see that, even though a controlled mount has the same initiative as you, that doesn't mean that, during your turn, you get to pick who moves when... i.e., technically, your mount can't move, wait for you to attack, and then disengage)

Cunning action works too, but at the cost of losing your BA attack

[MaxWilson]

Probably a newb question, but it seems to me a good strategy for a character with PAM and reach weapon is to attack at 10' and then back up 5' so that the enemy triggers an OA when it moves within your range to attack - right?

It's okay, but it's really only half a strategy, because you can miss (probably about half the time) and there can be more than one enemy. You also need a plan for how to safely get out of melee if your enemy reaches 5', and that plan is:

1.) Push enemy prone.
2.) Spend your other attacks attacking prone enemy at advantage (because you're 5' away).
3.) Step backwards 20' to 30' feet, leaving the enemy 25' to 35' away from you.

If an enemy with 30' move stands up, that uses 15' of movement, so he can only approach to 10' away from you (at which point you hit him again with your Sentinel reaction), and even if he does get to 5' away from you he will have had to Dash to do it, at which point you do it again.

If you have ranged allies shooting the enemy and you don't want to impose disadvantage on them, you can Shove 5' away instead of Shoving prone.

[bid]

PAM+Sentinel is an object lesson to DMs why single non-legendary creatures work poorly in 5e. Had a level 4 party wipe out a CR 10 Golem without a scratch using that combo.
Yeah, this looks good until you have 2+ enemies on you. React-PAM the first, the second/third moves in and attack, you have to mobile them to walk out.

So PAM+mobile might be a better bet, but always assume you have more than 1 enemy to deal with.