Battle blessing and Sanctified spells

[mouser13]

I just wondering what people view on Battle blessing and sanctified spells. Well they can be cased by paladin are they really paladin spells for battle blessing.

Also I'm playing archivist with battle blessing swift casting spells from paladin spells do you thing swift spells for Sanctified spells as well sense they can be cast as paladin.

[Saintheart]

I just wondering what people view on Battle blessing and sanctified spells. Well they can be cased by paladin are they really paladin spells for battle blessing.

Also I'm playing archivist with battle blessing swift casting spells from paladin spells do you thing swift spells for Sanctified spells as well sense they can be cast as paladin.

By strict RAW, arguably the answer is no. Battle Blessing's benefit section suggests it only applies to paladin spells, and Sanctified spells are particular to no class, i.e. they're not on the paladin's spell list as such.

That said, if your DM is happy to wiggle around this inconvenience, or just use the feat's description as indicating what it can do, then Battle Blessing works no differently on a Sanctified spell than it would for a paladin spell: if it's a standard action to cast the spell, you cast it as a swift action instead, and if a full round action, a standard action instead.

[Psyren]

"Paladin spells" doesn't mean "spells cast by a paladin". If that were the case, you could dip 1 level of paladin on your full caster and apply Battle Blessing to every spell you cast, because you are technically a (1st-level) paladin. Rather, it means "spells on the paladin spell list."

Sanctified Spells are not on any class' list, so they do not qualify as "Paladin spells."

[Thurbane]

If you could enter Exalted Arcanist as a Paladin (not an easy task - maybe Southern Magician + something that allows spontaneously swapping out spells?), then the 5th level capstone might allow all Sanctified spells to count as being on your Paladin class list, by a loose reading. It all depends if your DM agrees that a Paladin has "spells known".

By the time you jump through that many hoops, probably not going to be worth it. Also, a lot of the other things Exalted Arcanist offers are going to be of limited use (or no use at all) to a Paladin chassis.

[Sutr]

Just to check because 2 people seem pretty sure on the definition for battle blessing that the spells have to be on the paladin spell list. How do we know that battle blessing isn't supposed to affect spells cast from a paladin's spells per day?

I seem to remember considering paladin/geomancer with sword of the arcane order at some point in my life, but don't remember the reason I needed geomancer to quicken the powers.

[heavyfuel]

Just to check because 2 people seem pretty sure on the definition for battle blessing that the spells have to be on the paladin spell list. How do we know that battle blessing isn't supposed to affect spells cast from a paladin's spells per day?

I seem to remember considering paladin/geomancer with sword of the arcane order at some point in my life, but don't remember the reason I needed geomancer to quicken the powers.

Let's make that 3 people then, shall we?

Sanctified spells are not paladin spells. They're explicitly not part of any list. Also, Battle Blessing explictly calls out "paladin spells", which is definitely not "spells casts from your paladin slots".

As for SotAO, while most people love to praise on the feat, it isn't so good because they're explicitly Wizard spells, which are subject to ASF. Unless you like going unarmoured paladin, it just plain sucks.


On a related sidenote. Letting a Paladin auto-quicken Sanctified spells isn't going to break anything. Personally I'd allow it, despite it clearly not being RAW

[DarkSoul]

I'd let it work for a paladin. I wouldn't let an archivist take battle blessing at all, though.

[Thurbane]

Would Battle Blessing work if you add extra spells to your Paladin class spell list? Things like Deadgrim (Extra Spells), Improved Oneiromancy, Moonspeaker (Thelanis Tie / Lamannia Calling) etc.

Also, is there any reading of the Silver Pyromancer that would allow an arcane caster to make use of Battle Blessing with the Paladin spells they gain?

[tyckspoon]

Would Battle Blessing work if you add extra spells to your Paladin class spell list? Things like Deadgrim (Extra Spells), Improved Oneiromancy, Moonspeaker (Thelanis Tie / Lamannia Calling) etc.

Also, is there any reading of the Silver Pyromancer that would allow an arcane caster to make use of Battle Blessing with the Paladin spells they gain?

If whatever adds spells says 'Add to your class list' and your class is Paladin, I would say yes. For that character, those spells are Paladin spells. For Silver Pyromancer, I think it's pretty clear the answer is no -"you can treat spells from the paladin spell list as though they were arcane spells on the spell list for the arcane spellcasting class in which you could cast 3rd-level spells before becoming a silver pyromancer." These are not Paladin spells (not Divine spells, not spells cast by a Paladin, not Paladin list spells) in any sense, they are arcane Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard/whatever spells. The only connection this feature has to Paladin spells is limiting the list of spells you can pick to add to your own list.

[Thurbane]

If whatever adds spells says 'Add to your class list' and your class is Paladin, I would say yes. For that character, those spells are Paladin spells.

That sounds like reasonably solid RAW.

It's a shame that Sand Shaper doesn't specifically say it adds spells to a class list, because that is the best source of expanding spell access. You'd also have a headache trying to qualify for "arcane caster level 5th". Trust me, I've tried (with a Favored Soul build).

Anything that gives you a domain adds the domain spells to your spell list if you don't have domain slots, doesn't it?

A few others I've found:

Arachnomancer PrC (Underdark version - pretty good dip for an evil Paladin type)
Bone Knight PrC
Deadgrim PrC
Hexer PrC (good luck meeting the reqs as a Paladin)
Improved Oneiromancy feat
Initiate feats (many)
Moonspeaker PrC
Ordained Champion PrC
Red Falcon sub level 4
Ruby Rose Knight sub level 3
Vigilant Eye of Helm sub level 1
Winter's Champion feat

[Zombulian]

I'd let it work for a paladin. I wouldn't let an archivist take battle blessing at all, though.

Eh, if they go out of their way to buy Scrolls from a Paladin, or get a Paladin to look over their shoulder while adding the spell to their Prayerbook I think it should be alright. That would be hard enough to pull off that I don’t think it’d break much, especially since the Paladin list isn’t great.
Just being able to cast spells that happen to be on the Paladin list as a swift action is a bit of a stretch though.

[heavyfuel]

especially since the Paladin list isn’t great.

Say what now? The paladin list is pretty amazing. It's just not super impressive when compared to your ECL and spells per day. Give 4th level paladin spells to an ECL 7 character and things can get crazy even without Battle Blessing. Even then, stuff like Favor of the Martyr and some other paladin exclusive spells are incredible at all levels of play.

[Zombulian]

Say what now? The paladin list is pretty amazing. It's just not super impressive when compared to your ECL and spells per day. Give 4th level paladin spells to an ECL 7 character and things can get crazy even without Battle Blessing. Even then, stuff like Favor of the Martyr and some other paladin exclusive spells are incredible at all levels of play.

Ah right, forgot about that spell. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s bad. Putting a Fell Energy Crown of Smiting on one of your undead mooks as a swift action is awesome. Hell, just being able to put Magic Weapon or Bull’s Strength on someone as a swift action makes that spell a lot more worth preparing. But I don’t think it’s really gonna break anything.