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Rowanomicon
2007-10-17, 02:14 PM
I just thought I'd start a thread for people to discuss what templates they like to use and why. Which one's are powerful (and for what types of builds)? Which one's are just plain cool?

Basically this thread is to discuss anything and everything about everyone's favourite way (besides class levels) to make their characters and monsters tougher.

Draz74
2007-10-17, 02:17 PM
Phrenic. :smallbiggrin: Or Dark.

EDIT: Phrenic is from the XPH. Dark is from Tome of Magic.

Swooper
2007-10-17, 02:20 PM
Mineral warrior anyone? DR 8/adamantine is pretty harsh for only LA+1, without mentioning the other stuff it gives.

Machete
2007-10-17, 03:23 PM
Feral, from Savage Species.

Uber physical stat boost with minimal menta lstat penalties for only +1 LA. Cheesy.

The_Snark
2007-10-17, 03:26 PM
Dark is okay; I generally prefer the Shadow template, which is LA +2 but gives enough useful abilities to be worth it for many stealthy sorts.

I also like the half-fey. Flight, DR (with the errata), an array of useful spell-like abilities (including charm person at will), and a few stat boosts (and a Con penalty...), all for half the LA of the half-celestial or half-fiend.

AmberVael
2007-10-17, 03:29 PM
I'm going to agree with the above three posts.
1) Mineral warrior is REALLY GOOD. *sword clinks off skin*
2) Feral is awesome. "I NOT NEED SMARTS!" *bash* Some of the special abilities can really be handy too (Improved Grab? Hells yeah!)
3) Shadow. "Oh, yeah, we're outside, but the sun isn't quite up at the tippy top of the sky, and there is cloud cover. Concealment for me. Oh, and I have fast healing."

mostlyharmful
2007-10-17, 03:33 PM
White Dragonspawn for any sorc, flight, +7!!!! nat armour, natural weapons, +2 to dex and con, a breath weapon usable every 2d4 rounds, immunity to cold(and vulnerable to fire), access to dragon feats and oh yes the best bit..... +1 spellcasting level:smallbiggrin: Total LA +1

Dragonlance campaign setting, most broken template ever

brian c
2007-10-17, 04:24 PM
A Feral Mineral Warrior is about the most broken +2 LA you can be, especially if you can somehow get a DM to okay that, and then let you buy if off.


As a DM though, I like to use the Draconic template, and also I'm doing some Dark and Shadow templated guys in a thieves guild.

Dhavaer
2007-10-17, 04:38 PM
I like Dark, mostly for HiPS.

SandDemon
2007-10-17, 05:33 PM
Can you guys please reference where these templates are from? See that Feral is from Savage, but just looking for the others...

Half-farspawn is also pretty sick as well, from Lords of Madness.

Anxe
2007-10-17, 05:36 PM
All those Half-something ones are my favorites.

Rowanomicon
2007-10-17, 05:47 PM
I knew Mineral Warrior would come up. As a rule I only use/alow it when a character or NPC needs a bit of a power boost to be realistically be their ECL.

I too would like it if everyone could say what source-book any templates they mention are from.

HiPS is one of my favourite abilities in the whole game. Anything with it rules.

I've never used Feral, though I've always wanted to.

Phrenic and Half-Fey are both great templates for Sorcerers (+4 to casting stat Aha!)
Dragonspawn is also very useful and ridiculous at +1LA, ha!

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-17, 05:53 PM
Half minotaur. Large, lotsa stat boosts, and more. Basically a +1LA half ogre. It makes most other templates rediculous, since it gives a crapload of tremendous melee bonuses (unlike mineral, which certainly wasn't intended to be THAT broken, half mino likely WAS made broken), which is what templates are for, mostly (not nearly as many good for casters templates, nor as good for skillmonkeys).

Illiterate Scribe
2007-10-17, 05:59 PM
Vivacious is nice - incorporeal, plus a huge bucket full of fast healing, along with a cool flavour (Positive energy is underused, a mon avis) but my award has to go to ghost - RAW, above level 13, they are invincible.

AmberVael
2007-10-17, 06:34 PM
Phrenic and Half-Fey are both great templates for Sorcerers (+4 to casting stat Aha!)

First rule of (full) spellcasters:
Thou Shalt Not Give Up Caster Levels.
+4 to casting stat is nice... loss of levels for a spellcaster is BAD.
Not worth the trade.

I nearly forgot- Half Farspawn (Lords of Madness). Gotta love tentacles...

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-17, 06:39 PM
Hmm...how much LA do the phrenic and half fey have? Maybe you can recoup the caster levels using unearthed arcana's rules.

BizzaroStormy
2007-10-17, 06:43 PM
Im personally a fan of the lycanthrope template. This is mainly because I usually fill the role of the one who runs into the room and breaks everything and everyone in sight before the casters can even get their hands on their pouch.

Forrestfire
2007-10-17, 06:43 PM
1: White Dragonspawn: Flight, +7 Natural armor bonus, Breath weapon and A Truckload of stat bonuses.

2. Half-Fey: At will charm person as an SLA plus flight plus Cha bonus for +2 LA? Yes please.

Kyeudo
2007-10-17, 06:52 PM
Living Spell + Fiendish + Sentry Ooze, then add a few levels in Monk.

Ever wonder what would happen if a Mage's Disjunction were sentient, evil, and good at unarmed combat? Now you know.

shaddy_24
2007-10-17, 07:05 PM
Half- Iron Golem from MM2 is broken too. I can make a level 4 challange (and that's actually what they provide you) that has damage reduction 25/+2 weapons, immune to any spell that allows spell resistance except anything that rusts it.
Oh, and it gets a save or die breath weapon.
Also, +11 natural armor and +12 strength.
It also has the construct type, so it's immune to mind affecting effects, poison, stunning, sleep spells, any sort of ability damage or drain, critical hit, sneak attack, and anything else that allows Fort saves.
And that's for +3 LA I'm pretty sure.

How many 4th level characters can even hurt it?
It may only have 5 hp, but the players won't even be able to touch it.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-17, 08:14 PM
+0 LA Planedtouched from Player's Guide to Faerun if no LA buydown.

+0 LA Magebred (ECS) if playing something like a Hengekoai from Oriental Adventurs.

+2 LA Half Fey (Fiend Folio), +2 LA Phrenic (Expanded Psionics Handbook), +2 LA Shadow Creature Dragon and andone of the planar manuals with LA buydown option.

UA Blood lines are kind of like a template but cheaper to buy down particularly with high level PCs since they have their own buy down rules.

DraPrime
2007-10-17, 08:17 PM
I always loved the Half-Vampire from Libris Mortis. It lets you suck blood without any of those inconveniant vampire restrictions.

Guy_Whozevl
2007-10-17, 08:58 PM
Half minotaur. Large, lotsa stat boosts, and more. Basically a +1LA half ogre. It makes most other templates rediculous, since it gives a crapload of tremendous melee bonuses (unlike mineral, which certainly wasn't intended to be THAT broken, half mino likely WAS made broken), which is what templates are for, mostly (not nearly as many good for casters templates, nor as good for skillmonkeys).

Seconded. It makes the Half Ogre template look like a joke with its much better stat boosts, especially to Con without the penalties. The scent and stuff like that makes it even better.

Dode
2007-10-17, 10:00 PM
Half-farspawn is also pretty sick as well, from Lords of Madness.

It's a favorite of mine too.

CR3 Half-Farspawn Ape. 4 attacks a round with 10ft. reach and a bite, DR5/magic, blindsight and amorphous traits.

The_Snark
2007-10-17, 10:04 PM
Half-vampire and half-farspawn are pretty cool too, actually. Half-vampire nets you fast healing and can get you a charming gaze. Half-farspawn is awesome, but the LA is a little high on it to be very useful for characters... alas.

Leon
2007-10-17, 10:55 PM
First rule of (full) spellcasters:
Thou Shalt Not Give Up Caster Levels.
+4 to casting stat is nice... loss of levels for a spellcaster is BAD.
Not worth the trade.


big whoop, the 1st rule of making a PC is do what you want to make it right for you regardless of its LA

Now back on track

Feral - lots of fun for everyone (favourite is a Feral Thri Kreen) (SS)
Draconic - nice stat boosts and other abilties (RoD)
Winged - +2 LA but with enough Dex you get perfect flight (SS)
Warbeast - Turning everyday beasts into combat ready ones (MM2)
Woodling - for that extra get close to nature feeling (MM3)
Half Dragon - Raw Dragon power in a small (ish) box (MM)

Rowanomicon
2007-10-17, 10:59 PM
What are some good/cool race (or monster)/template/class combos you guys like to use.

Also, how many Half templates can you give to one creature. I know there isn't a specific rule on it, but...

Also has anyone ever used selectively active templates?
I had a character once that had both celestial and fiendish heritage in his recent family history, otherwise he was human. I had 3 character sheets made up for him.
1) Human Fighter
2) Human Half-Celestial Paladin
3) Human Half-Fiend Fallen-Paladin/Blackguard
I used the first one normally, but sometime (at the DMs discretion) I would switch to one of the other ones (and my character would take on characteristics of the template).

This opens up yet another topic for discussion. Opposing Templates. What other pairings or opposites are possible?

Lord Tataraus
2007-10-17, 11:03 PM
I've got to say that Half-Dragon is a fun template, I get to choose almost any dragon of the ~40 published and get its breath weapon for my warrior? Sweet! Sure you can keep your line of fire, personally, I'll take a cone of force or a cone of 1 negative level over that any day! Sure you don't get immunities with the cone of force, but you get immunity to neg levels with with the latter! (Shadow Dragons rock!) And a bull-rushing breath weapon reeks of coolness (thank you Dragon Magazine!)

Edit: On the question of opposing templates, its not exactly the same but what happens if a Lupin gets turned into a werewolf?

Rowanomicon
2007-10-17, 11:43 PM
I unfamiliar with Lupin. By the name I'm assuming it's something wolfish. Is it a template, a race, or something else?

Chineselegolas
2007-10-18, 12:18 AM
I think that it is a race from Dragon Compendium. They spend there lives hunting down Weres.

I personally like the Feral, partly because it is broken, partly because I like to play big dumb brutes who just don't seem to die from time to time.

Dark and Shadow are fun for sneaky types.

Natural Were-Ghost. Bit LA, but quite tough. Incorporeal with DR 10/Silver.

Alternatively Ghost-Pixies. Who has magical cold iron weapons?...

Leon
2007-10-18, 01:30 AM
This has gotten me thinking and tinkering with a Feral Half Sand Dragon Thri-Kreen

Hmm, not 100% sure if that will actually work with the subtypes....?

Ted_Stryker
2007-10-18, 01:55 AM
The Crafty, Stealthy, and Tough quickplates from the Monsternomicon (Iron Kingdoms) are a lot of fun. As a +1 CR for monster opponents they are about right. As +1 LA templates, they are a bit underpriced.

Insectile (SS) is a good one for the Ogre/Minotaur/Troll types. Screw that 2HW bunk, go 6HW with a 3.5x STR modifier to damage! Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, +2 NAC, and tremorsense are all part of the deal, all for the low, low price of a +1 CR bump. It's not as great as a +2 LA template, but for a tank, it's not so terrible if you want to dish out the damage.

Multi-headed is another one I like for the Ogre/Minotaur types, basically anything big where Wizard levels count as non-associated levels. The goal here is the Multivoice feat (a feat with highly ability- and feat-intensive prereqs, BTW), then the extra head casts True Strike for Power Attacking fun every round, until it runs out of True Strikes. The extra two racial HD from the template are key, as they extend the range for which you can count Wizard levels as non-associated.

For example, a multi-headed Minotaur (CR 6 with the template) can then be assigned 8 levels of Wizard to bump it up to CR 10. If you give it a 28-point buy, you can put 13 points each in Dex and Int, and then put its 8th/12th level attribute bumps in Int, and then at 12 HD, it is possible to qualify for the Multivoice feat (note, I use the Wizard variant that takes its bonus feats from the Fighter bonus feat list as given in the SRD, and the Scribe Scroll feat is also replaced by a Fighter bonus feat). Assign Arcane Strike for its 15 HD feat for extra fun.

Spellwarped (MM3) is another fun one for critters whose HD total exceed their CR. A Spellwarped, multi-voiced Minotaur (SR 27 if you use the build above) is a fun CR 12 creature, and for extra fun you can give it a few 5th level wizard companions (4-6 make it EL 13) that lob fireballs at it for free buffing.

Karma Guard
2007-10-18, 02:34 AM
I actually like Necropolitan for the flavor of it. It may not be good (Or is it, I haven't looked at it recently), but I like it.

You purposely offed yourself and rose up in a ceremony so you could hang out in the cool kids part of the city.

Armads
2007-10-18, 03:34 AM
Alternatively Ghost-Pixies. Who has magical cold iron weapons?...

Pixie ghosts don't exist. They don't meet the prereqs for becoming a ghost.

I like Feral, Draconic and others.

Feral Goliaths are made of win.

puppyavenger
2007-10-18, 06:19 AM
The Ikea tarrausque!:smalltongue:

Leon
2007-10-18, 08:57 AM
Feral Goliaths are made of win.

Really Feral Garguns too

Lord Tataraus
2007-10-18, 09:04 AM
I unfamiliar with Lupin. By the name I'm assuming it's something wolfish. Is it a template, a race, or something else?

They are a humanoid-wolf race from Dragon Compendium that spend their lives hunt weres. I've just wondered what a werewolf version of one would be since they start out as wolf-creatures, of course they would probably get killed very quickly.

Thrawn183
2007-10-18, 09:38 AM
Half- Iron Golem from MM2 is broken too. I can make a level 4 challange (and that's actually what they provide you) that has damage reduction 25/+2 weapons, immune to any spell that allows spell resistance except anything that rusts it.
Oh, and it gets a save or die breath weapon.
Also, +11 natural armor and +12 strength.
It also has the construct type, so it's immune to mind affecting effects, poison, stunning, sleep spells, any sort of ability damage or drain, critical hit, sneak attack, and anything else that allows Fort saves.
And that's for +3 LA I'm pretty sure.

How many 4th level characters can even hurt it?
It may only have 5 hp, but the players won't even be able to touch it.

Anyone with a vial of alchemist's fire?

Darrin
2007-10-18, 10:49 AM
No one's mentioned Lolth-Touched (from MM4). LA +1, +6 Str/+6 Con.

Or Divine Minion:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a

The Mormegil
2007-10-18, 12:30 PM
Karsite (Tome of Magic) isn't a proper template, but anyway it's an LA +2 race with great possibilities, really.
SR, Spell Healing and that pesky Magic Draining Attack...

Also I subscribe:
1)Feral - awesomest of all
2)Lolth's Touched - great for fighters
3)Divine Minion - even only for Pun-Pun...
4)Mineral Warrior - even excessive
5)Half-Dragon - solid
6)Half-Fey - charme at will is something to seek...
7)Half-Golem - great, not only at low ECLs, for Spell Immunity.
8)White Dragonspawn - gish beware!

And will add:
9)Antropomorphic Animal - ever tried a bat? Free +6 Wis? or a whale, for awesome stat bonuses... (SS)
10)Saint - except for flavour reasons (BoED)
11)Corrupted - vile damages... bwahahahahaha! (BoVD)

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-18, 07:27 PM
If you are playing a corporeal undead the +1 LA "Spellstitched" from Complete Arcane could be interesting.

Leon
2007-10-21, 01:20 AM
The Crafty, Stealthy, and Tough quickplates from the Monsternomicon (Iron Kingdoms) are a lot of fun. As a +1 CR for monster opponents they are about right. As +1 LA templates, they are a bit underpriced.


Alpha Hunter, Tough and Crafty are my Fav's
Tough on a Dire Troll :smallbiggrin:

as for Templates: Iron Lich

Helgraf
2007-10-21, 01:31 AM
Half- Iron Golem from MM2 is broken too. I can make a level 4 challange (and that's actually what they provide you) that has damage reduction 25/+2 weapons, immune to any spell that allows spell resistance except anything that rusts it.
Oh, and it gets a save or die breath weapon.
Also, +11 natural armor and +12 strength.
It also has the construct type, so it's immune to mind affecting effects, poison, stunning, sleep spells, any sort of ability damage or drain, critical hit, sneak attack, and anything else that allows Fort saves.
And that's for +3 LA I'm pretty sure.

How many 4th level characters can even hurt it?
It may only have 5 hp, but the players won't even be able to touch it.

Hmmm, they didn't clean up the Half-Golem template along with the rest of MM II when they did the update to 3.5?

Zincorium
2007-10-21, 01:57 AM
Hmmm, they didn't clean up the Half-Golem template along with the rest of MM II when they did the update to 3.5?

Yep.

And it's LA -. So no playing it.

Seriously, it didn't have an LA before, it specifically doesn't have one now, so where are people getting the LA number from?

If your DM allows you to get the half golem template, it's their responsibility to put a reasonable LA onto it.

deadseashoals
2007-10-21, 05:33 PM
Half- Iron Golem from MM2 is broken too. I can make a level 4 challange (and that's actually what they provide you) that has damage reduction 25/+2 weapons, immune to any spell that allows spell resistance except anything that rusts it.
Oh, and it gets a save or die breath weapon.
Also, +11 natural armor and +12 strength.
It also has the construct type, so it's immune to mind affecting effects, poison, stunning, sleep spells, any sort of ability damage or drain, critical hit, sneak attack, and anything else that allows Fort saves.
And that's for +3 LA I'm pretty sure.

How many 4th level characters can even hurt it?
It may only have 5 hp, but the players won't even be able to touch it.

Melf's acid arrow for the win. Or web plus burning damage. Or lesser orb of ____.

Of course, it's still a ridiculously stupid template.

Rowanomicon
2007-10-22, 09:12 PM
Is there a template that is like the opposite of Exalted?

If not I think I shall homebrew one. Anyone interested din helping?

Is Exalted just about being good or about being lawful good?

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-23, 10:12 AM
Is there a template that is like the opposite of Exalted?



There is the Tainted Minion template from Heroes of Horror which are always Evil but they cannot be PCs according to their LA entry text.

An easy way to make a opposed template balance is to just reverse things on the original template. DR/Evil or Law becomes DR/Good or Chaos. Do the same thing for spell like abilities.

Almost forgot the +0LA Soul Locked template from Herroes of Horror is pretty cool for PCs who die a lot in games.

Duke of URL
2007-10-23, 11:31 AM
Hmm...how much LA do the phrenic and half fey have? Maybe you can recoup the caster levels using unearthed arcana's rules.

Half-fey is only +2, so you can buy it off without too much trouble.

The Mormegil
2007-10-23, 02:24 PM
What's the easiest way to get the Outsider type with an archetype? Does Planetouched or some other +0 LA give it? What else do they do and/or where can I find them? Divine Minion banned. Is there another +1 LA template that changes type to Outsider? I could get away with a race, but not Aasimars and Tiefling because I cannot be "native". Please help needed:smalleek: !

Rowanomicon
2007-10-23, 11:45 PM
Half-fey is only +2, so you can buy it off without too much trouble.

So is Phrenic.

Hasivel
2007-10-24, 01:49 PM
Tauric can be amazingly good or bad, but either way is amazingly complicated compared to most templates. With the right choice of creatures it can be awesome (A blink dog/halfling I saw once was pretty powerful), since it doesn't use the LA of one of the two creatures combined, just it's HD. I'm particularly fond of monstrous scorpion bases, three extra natural attacks that still work even when you're holding weapons (unlike, frex, claws), poison, nice boosts to armor and physical stats. And only 2-3 HD tacked on so it's pretty low level.

Albeit, Tauric was also responsible for one of the stupidest concepts I ever saw, a werebear tauric bear. He was just trying to stack up the physical mods and so, he had the bottom half of a bear. And during the full moon the top half turned into. . . another bear.

Symbiotic's fun too and in the same vein but it's even more annoying and complex to try to work with it's assorted requirements and limitations.

Rowanomicon
2007-10-24, 02:35 PM
Where are Symbiotic and Tauric from?

Leon
2007-10-24, 05:21 PM
Monster Manual 2

Hasivel
2007-10-24, 10:24 PM
Where are Symbiotic and Tauric from?

They're both in Savage Species, Tauric is also in the MM2 but that version doesn't seem to have any LA (SS gives it as LA of the humanoid portion +2).