Warlock Multi-Class Question 101010

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

If I have a Level 10 Bard or other full caster who suddenly multiclasses into Warlock the character keeps track of their spell slots from each class individually but can "cross cast"?

So the Bard10, Warlock1 Bardlock could cast Dissonant Whispers at Level 1 from the Warlock slot and have it recharge on a short rest?

Or, if the Bard10, Warlock1 Bardlock takes a hit they can reaction cast Hellish Rebuke from a 5th level Bard slot that recharges on a long rest? Even though the highest Warlock slot available is level 1?

Here is the rule:

Pact Magic. If you have both the Spellcasting class
feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock
class, you can use the spell slots you gain from the Pact
Magic feature to cast spells you know or have prepared
from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, and you
can use the spell slots you gain from the Spellcasting
class feature to cast warlock spells you know.

[firelistener]

That's correct. You already said it correctly too, but I'll reiterate that only warlock spell slots are recovered on short rests. That's part of the reason they're an exception to the normal multiclass shared number of spell slots and are still tracked separately.

[Mongobear]

That's correct. You already said it correctly too, but I'll reiterate that only warlock spell slots are recovered on short rests. That's part of the reason they're an exception to the normal multiclass shared number of spell slots and are still tracked separately.

Just double checking, but has that contention point finally been officially resolved?

I still know a few people playing it as all slots.

[Noratio]

Just double checking, but has that contention point finally been officially resolved?

I still know a few people playing it as all slots.

Yeah, only warlock spell slots are recovered on short rest for a bardlock. I've never even seen that debated. that's interesting

[Mongobear]

Yeah, only warlock spell slots are recovered on short rest for a bardlock. I've never even seen that debated. that's interesting

Back in early 5e it was a hot button topic, but I stopped following it for a few months/years.

Last I heard it still wasn't resolved, which is why I brought it up.

[diplomancer]

Back in early 5e it was a hot button topic, but I stopped following it for a few months/years.

Last I heard it still wasn't resolved, which is why I brought it up.

I'm not sure I understand. If having one warlock level allows you to recover all your spell slots on a short rest, basically all casters would take one level of warlock. Only game type I would not see that happening is the "one battle a day" type.

[Keravath]

Back in early 5e it was a hot button topic, but I stopped following it for a few months/years.

Last I heard it still wasn't resolved, which is why I brought it up.

I think you are referring to the line in the Pact Magic section of the warlock that says "You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest." and the idea is that some folks applied this to both spell slots provided by the Pact Magic feature and the Spellcasting feature if a character was multi-classed.

In the multiclassing seciton of the rules it says:
"Pact Magic. if you have both the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock class, you can use the spell slots you gain from the Pact Magic feature to cast spells you know or have prepared from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, and you can use the spell slots you gain from the Spellcasting class feature to cast warlock spells you know."

... which allows you to use spell slots granted by the Pact Magic feature and spell slots from the Spellcasting feature to cast spells of the other type that the character knows. However, it also makes it pretty clear that pact magic spell slots and spellcasting spell slots are not the same thing. This is further shown in the multiclassed spell slots table where warlock levels are not included in calculating spell slots.

In addition, the line about regaining spell slots on a short rest is in the section discussing pact magic and one would think it would only apply to pact magic spell slots. However, I can see someone trying to exploit the rules by trying to read the one sentence out of context which is clearly incorrect from a balance perspective if from no other point of view.

I've been playing 5e for several years now, and reading this forum among others, and this is the first time I have heard of anyone trying to interpret the warlock pact magic spell slot recovery rules in this way.

[Mongobear]

Dipping Warlock 2 was, and still is a major power bump, especially for Charisma synergy classes.

I don't know how you coulda missed it years ago, it was almost a daily repeat post.

As far as the MC quotes and it not working, the counter-argument is that the entry only specifies that they are separate for the purposes of level progression. And that as per an faq from back then, "spell slots are spell slots, regardless of the source" which some people rules-lawyered as meaning Pact Magic vs Spellcasting was only a fluff difference, and thus, the Short Rest recharge applied to everything.

It led to some crazy builds, and was even AL legal for a time.

[Tanarii]

I don't know how you coulda missed it years ago, it was almost a daily repeat post.Ive been on these boards starting about 18 months after release, and it must have been cleared up by then, because i don't ever recall seeing this suggested seriously.

[Yunru]

I've been on since the start of 5e and I never once saw it debated.

[KorvinStarmast]

It led to some crazy builds, and was even AL legal for a time.
That's surprising to learn.

Pact Magic. If you have both the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature from
the warlock class, you can use the spell slots you gain from the Pact Magic feature to cast spells
you know or have prepared from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, and you can use the
spell slots you gain from the Spellcasting class feature to cast warlock spells you know. Nothing about regen. I'll go and check Sage Advice, I suspect this topic eventually burbled up to Crawford's notice.
OK, I checked the 2019 Compendium, I guess it never got that far.

[Mongobear]

That's surprising to learn.
Nothing about regen. I'll go and check Sage Advice, I suspect this topic eventually burbled up to Crawford's notice.
OK, I checked the 2019 Compendium, I guess it never got that far.

The rules part you quoted are what it was based on.

The argument was that since it doesn't say the Pact Magic Regen was specific to Pact Magic, simple "all spell slots" it effected Multiclassing. Basically, since it says "All spell slots" and not "All Pact Magic spell slots" or "All spell slots from this feature".

It was pretty Shakey, honestly, but I know some early AL builds revolved around it. Paladin/Warlock for Smites, SorLock for spells(ironically, this is still a great MC without this exploit).

A lot of it was based on a DM allowing the specific wording though, but I know it perked up in AL a bit.