Help me build this concept

[jaappleton]

For a long, long time, I've wanted to make a particular PC for 5th Edition.

The simplest way to describe it would be 'magic cowboy'. Pistol gunslinger, some light magic, lots of swagger. If you've seen the film Tombstone, very much in the vein of Doc Holiday.

I can use a hand crossbow for the feel of the revolver. No issue there.

Things I need:

1. Archery style
2. Multiple attacks
3. Some magic


Things I'd like:

4. Arcane Weapon spell (from Artificer, though I've gotten my DM to agree to a Magic Initiate: Artificer feat)
5. Possible burst damage?
6. To NOT be a Ranger (I find PHB Ranger to be trash, and I've been spoiled with character builders and don't want to do character sheets by hand anymore)


The way I see it, that leaves me with Eldritch Knight (which... I mean, the lv7 is basically worthless to me, which is a shame), or Artificer and give up the Archery Style but kinda offset it by having a +1 magic hand crossbow. Also Artificer past level 10 doesn't... doesn't offer a whole lot, no damage bonus at lv11 like any other half caster or anything like that. Though by going with Repeating Weapon I could actually use a hand crossbow and shield for added defense. Then there's the whole Blood Hunter thing but I don't know if I want to get into that, very glass-cannon.

EDIT: NEW DEVELOPMENTS

DM has allowed both Unearthed Arcana, as well as enabling me to forgo Heavy Armor proficiency in exchange for granting access to Archery Style on a Paladin, and letting Divine Smite work with ranged attacks.

So I've narrowed it down to the following:

Archery Paladin (likely Devotion)

OR

Monster Hunter Fighter from the Gothic Heroes UA
https://media.dnd.wizards.com/upload/articles/UA%20Gothic%20Characters.pdf

[nickl_2000]

Why not Arcane Archer with MI: Artificer or Arcane Archer X/Artificer 2?

[Keravath]

Hi!

Personally, one option I like is a battlemaster fighter with a couple of levels of warlock for this build. Start off variant human, take the crossbow expert feat, sharpshooter at 4 and boost dex at 6 and 8. Add in two or three levels of warlock for magical abilities, cantrips, spells etc. Type of warlock isn't cruicial since you have the armor and weapons proficiencies already. Hexblade offers up the shield spell and hexblade's curse, while celestial has some healing and extra cantrips, other options also work depending on your character. All of your resources are short rest based then.

Another option is taking 2-3 levels of sorcerer (3 levels get you 6 spell slots/day, 2nd level spells and 4 cantrips). The eldritch knight is the most direct route as you mentioned but I think the warlock or sorcerer multi-class offers a different take on the magic aspect that can fit well.

[GlenSmash!]

Also Artificer past level 10 doesn't... doesn't offer a whole lot, no damage bonus at lv11 like any other half caster or anything like that.

What? Some of the best options for item replication infusions come online at 12 and 16. And that capstone of Six attuned items resulting in +6 to all saves is Gnarly.

Anyway, Doc was a dentist by trade right? I think Alchemist would be a great fit. Blast away with your repeating Hand Crossbow then brew tonics for your party and yourself in downtime. Bonus points if you brew them from huckleberries.

[jaappleton]

Why not Arcane Archer with MI: Artificer or Arcane Archer X/Artificer 2?

A very good question.

1. The Arcane Shots are limited to two per rest, which is... I mean, that's fairly pitiful in terms of uses. I like the *concept* of the AA, but its lv7 also doesn't work with hand crossbows, or crossbows of any kind. Only the shortbow and longbow. Additionally, the damage on them scales incredibly poorly.

2. No spell slots to utilize anything like Arcane Weapon.

[jaappleton]

Bonus points if you brew them from huckleberries.

Fun fact: That line is actually subject to much debate, as its considered that Val Kilmer actually said it incorrectly.

Its thought that the line should actually be "I'm your huckle bearer... that's just my game.", as a huckleberry is... nothing. That's made up.

A huckle is the handle of a casket. The line meaning Doc is willing to carry Ringo's casket, that Doc is willing to put him into the ground if that's what Ringo's really looking for.

[airless_wing]

A very good question.

1. The Arcane Shots are limited to two per rest, which is... I mean, that's fairly pitiful in terms of uses. I like the *concept* of the AA, but its lv7 also doesn't work with hand crossbows, or crossbows of any kind. Only the shortbow and longbow. Additionally, the damage on them scales incredibly poorly.


If you can get your DM to agree to allow Hand crossbows to apply for Arcane Archer's lvl 7 bonus, then that would be the direction I would go.
Too many people get wrapped up in the Arcane Shots, but the really value of the Arcane Archer (in my book) is turning that miss into another hit. And if fits in with the western-gunslighter trope of ricocheting shots.

[nickl_2000]

A very good question.

1. The Arcane Shots are limited to two per rest, which is... I mean, that's fairly pitiful in terms of uses. I like the *concept* of the AA, but its lv7 also doesn't work with hand crossbows, or crossbows of any kind. Only the shortbow and longbow. Additionally, the damage on them scales incredibly poorly.

2. No spell slots to utilize anything like Arcane Weapon.


If you can get your DM to agree to allow Hand crossbows to apply for Arcane Archer's lvl 7 bonus, then that would be the direction I would go.
Too many people get wrapped up in the Arcane Shots, but the really value of the Arcane Archer (in my book) is turning that miss into another hit. And if fits in with the western-gunslighter trope of ricocheting shots.

As for #1, along the line of airless_wing... When was the last time your table let RAW get in the way of things that would be cool?

#2 Well MI gives you an hour of arcane weapon. Artificer 2 gives you 2 spells of Arcane Weapon and 2 infusions (repeating shot and something else cool).

[jaappleton]

As for #1, along the line of airless_wing... When was the last time your table let RAW get in the way of things that would be cool?

#2 Well MI gives you an hour of arcane weapon. Artificer 2 gives you 2 spells of Arcane Weapon and 2 infusions (repeating shot and something else cool).

Its for an Avernus campaign, which goes to 13+. So if I can get my DM to let AA fly with a Hand XBow, AA might be viable just for how great that lv7 feature is. Its seriously so damn great.

AA 11 / Artificer 2 is very intriguing.

The only other thing I can think of would be to allow a Paladin to be ranged, with access to Archery style. That's... I mean, there's precedent for it, the Divine Hunter existed in 3.X and Pathfinder, and I've heard people say its pretty much fine in 5E, but... There's a fairly large discrepancy in asking for AA to work with XBows versus allowing Paladin at range. Its like asking the DM to give me a cookie, or asking the DM to let me drive his car when I've had four DUIs. :smalltongue:

[GlenSmash!]

Fun fact: That line is actually subject to much debate, as its considered that Val Kilmer actually said it incorrectly.

Its thought that the line should actually be "I'm your huckle bearer... that's just my game.", as a huckleberry is... nothing. That's made up.

A huckle is the handle of a casket. The line meaning Doc is willing to carry Ringo's casket, that Doc is willing to put him into the ground if that's what Ringo's really looking for.

Interesting. I've always heard it as the huckleberry being slang for the last nail in the coffin. Perhaps also associated to the huckle, or maybe a corruption of the slang.

[sigfile]

Personally, one option I like is a battlemaster fighter with a couple of levels of warlock for this build. Start off variant human, take the crossbow expert feat, sharpshooter at 4 and boost dex at 6 and 8. Add in two or three levels of warlock for magical abilities, cantrips, spells etc.

I play a variant of this in AL. It's amazing. Fighter (Battle Master) / Rogue (Assassin - for your concept, go Arcane Trickster. If I could start over I'd absolutely go that route instead). The final build will be F11/Ro9. High damage, high swagger, high utility, and a nice touch of magic.

[jaappleton]

I play a variant of this in AL. It's amazing. Fighter (Battle Master) / Rogue (Assassin - for your concept, go Arcane Trickster. If I could start over I'd absolutely go that route instead). The final build will be F11/Ro9. High damage, high swagger, high utility, and a nice touch of magic.

Since Avernus only goes to level 13 or so, how would you break up the build for that level cap?

[sigfile]

Since Avernus only goes to level 13 or so, how would you break up the build for that level cap?

Variant Human
Fighter 1
Rogue 1
Fighter 6
Rogue 7

You could, if you preferred, push that first level of rogue out a bit, but the extra skill and expertise is just so, so nice. You could move the rogue levels up (Fighter1 Rogue4) to get the arcane trickster toys earlier, but I really enjoy the Battle Master maneuvers with this build and wouldn't push those back any further for the world.

[Throne12]

A very good question.

1. The Arcane Shots are limited to two per rest, which is... I mean, that's fairly pitiful in terms of uses. I like the *concept* of the AA, but its lv7 also doesn't work with hand crossbows, or crossbows of any kind. Only the shortbow and longbow. Additionally, the damage on them scales incredibly poorly.

2. No spell slots to utilize anything like Arcane Weapon.

Crawford say in a tweet that arcane archer was supposed to work with xbow as well.

[nickl_2000]

Crawford say in a tweet that arcane archer was supposed to work with xbow as well.

Mearls said in a tweet it was an oversight
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sageadvice.eu/2017/12/03/why-cant-an-arcane-archer-use-crossbows/amp/


Crawford said afterwards that it was not.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sageadvice.eu/2018/05/23/arcane-archer-with-crossbow/amp/

[Garfunion]

Why not go Wizard Bladesinging and maybe pick up a level in fighter for archery style.
Pick up crossbow expert feat too.

You could also go Paladin. Their smite feature may not work but they do get spells like divine favor and elemental weapon.

[Mongobear]

Hexblade, Pact of the Blade

Take Crossbow Expert, and the Invocation that lets you change it into a Ranged weapon.

Maybe dip a few into Fighter, since High level Warlock is meh, to get the style.

HexWarlock 12/BM Fighter 4/Swashbuckler 4

[Nagog]

Ooooo! I've actually theory crafted something similar before. The simple solution is to make a Warlock, and have their "Magic Bullet" be an Eldritch Blast fired through their gun, which doubles as their focus. They have light magic in their spells and other various abilities, and the scaling shots and various adaptability of Eldritch Blast can give various effects like fanning the hammer, sharpshooting, and the like. As long as the DM is ok with handwaving the Patron fluff aspect, Warlocks make for great magical gunslingers.

[Garfunion]

Hexblade, Pact of the Blade

Take Crossbow Expert, and the Invocation that lets you change it into a Ranged weapon.

Maybe dip a few into Fighter, since High level Warlock is meh, to get the style.

HexWarlock 12/BM Fighter 4/Swashbuckler 4

The “ranged weapon” invocation (improved pact weapon) does not allow hand crossbows to be an option.

[Nagog]

The “ranged weapon” invocation (improved pact weapon) does not allow crossbows to be an option.

Um... yes it does? The text stats it can be a shortbow, longbow, light crossbow, or heavy crossbow. It doesn't allow hand crossbows, but considering light crossbows are almost the same thing, you'd need a real hard-@$$ed DM to bar the build because of that.

[Garfunion]

Um... yes it does? The text stats it can be a shortbow, longbow, light crossbow, or heavy crossbow. It doesn't allow hand crossbows, but considering light crossbows are almost the same thing, you'd need a real hard-@$$ed DM to bar the build because of that.

I edited my post to state hand crossbow. Guess I wasn’t fast enough.

[jaappleton]

Um... yes it does? The text stats it can be a shortbow, longbow, light crossbow, or heavy crossbow. It doesn't allow hand crossbows, but considering light crossbows are almost the same thing, you'd need a real hard-@$$ed DM to bar the build because of that.

Crossbow Expert Feat interaction here is fairly important.

Also the lack of Archery style.

Although Avernus fully expects the players to cut deals with Devils to get magic items... Illusionists Bracers (cast cantrip a with a bonus action) and a Rod of the Pact Keeper are mighty intriguing options.

[Nagog]

Crossbow Expert Feat interaction here is fairly important.

Also the lack of Archery style.

Although Avernus fully expects the players to cut deals with Devils to get magic items... Illusionists Bracers (cast cantrip a with a bonus action) and a Rod of the Pact Keeper are mighty intriguing options.

Would you (or your DM) consider casting a spell from a one-handed spellcasting focus as attacking with a one-handed weapon? I can see the pros and cons of both sides, but wielding a revolver spellcasting focus and a hand crossbow could be interesting.
For the Archery Style, you'd have to take a dip into fighter. Otherwise I'd search out a magic item.
Which leads me to think, are there +x spell casting foci? Like your ranged or melee spell attack rolls using that focus gain a bonus similar to melee and ranged weapons of the same caliber? If so, why haven't I heard of such things?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Crossbow Expert Feat interaction here is fairly important.

Also the lack of Archery style.

Although Avernus fully expects the players to cut deals with Devils to get magic items... Illusionists Bracers (cast cantrip a with a bonus action) and a Rod of the Pact Keeper are mighty intriguing options.

The rod can be a revolver shooting magic.

[Randomthom]

VHuman, Crossbow Master. Hexblade Warlock Pact of the Blade. Get yourself a magic hand crossbow as early as possible to make it your pact weapon. By RAW you can't create a hand crossbow with improved pact weapon so ask your DM if they will allow. Shouldn't be too hard to sell since it can create light & heavy crossbows and long & shortbows.

1 level of fighter for archery style.
Now go warlock & grab the Hex spell, BA for +1d6 damage on every hit.
Invocations you'll want Improved Pact Weapon and Devil's Sight to cover your lack of Darkvision.
At Warlock 5th (character 6th) level grab Thirsting Blade for extra attack.
Now grab that 2nd fighter level for Action Surge.
At Warlock 12th (character 14th) level you'll want Lifedrinker to be adding your cha mod twice to damage to every attack (once normal, once necrotic).

Basically, by 7th level you can set up Hex then nova for 5 attacks in the first round. You're a short rest character so make sure to be pushing for those!

Alternative, use the crossbow as a "prop" spellcasting focus and go down the Eldritch Blast route but fluffing the blasts as magic crossbow bolts from your crossbow arcane focus. Doing this also drops the need for the crossbow master feat. Without the need for the early feat, Drow makes a great race for this because of innate Darkness spell and Devil's Sight invocation for auto advantage for you & disadvantage for anyone attacking you. You also don't need the fighter levels anymore!

[Mongobear]

Which leads me to think, are there +x spell casting foci? Like your ranged or melee spell attack rolls using that focus gain a bonus similar to melee and ranged weapons of the same caliber? If so, why haven't I heard of such things?

Yes.

Wand of the War Mage +1/2/3 to spell attacks and they ignore cover.

Rod of the Pact Keeper (Warlock only) +1/2/3 to Spell Attacks and (maybe Saves?) And 1/long rest recharge a Pact Magic spell slots.

Also, the Staff of the Magi/Power gives +2 to spell attacks as well iirc.

[cullynthedwarf]

I haven't seen any one mention this yet but what about the class GUNSLINGER? It was built by Matt Mercer for one of his friends on Critical Roll (season/campaign 1) I would recommend watching to see how it plays and also a decent YouTube show.

It is built on a fighter frame so you will still get action surge at 2 and second attack at 5 plus all the ASI bonuses. But also gives you what you are wanting as a gun fighter.

Or if your DM disallows the class due to the gun itself then offer up your hand x-bow as a compromise. Just a thought

https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/Gunslinger
Or
https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/classes/matt-mercers-gunslinger/

Have fun!

[Razade]

F
Its thought that the line should actually be "I'm your huckle bearer... that's just my game.", as a huckleberry is... nothing. That's made up.


While there might be some confusion over what Val said in the movie, Huckleberries are an actual thing. They're a fruit, or really one of several fruits found in the United Stats and Canada. They are so much a thing we have such characters as Huckleberry Finn. Neither here nor there.

There was a saying popular around the time of Tombstone (1879) that read "a huckleberry over a persimmon". Not only that, another popular saying based around that saying was "I'll be your huckleberry" which meant that the person was the one for whatever job the other person might have. You can find some reading on it here (https://victoriawilcoxbooks.com/doc-holliday-stories/im-your-huckleberry/). As noted, the line "I'm your huckleberry" wasn't just in the movie (the script has that line written by the by, so if Val said something wrong he got his line wrong) but it was also in a book that's cited as inspiration for the film.

I honestly couldn't source your claim. Where'd you hear it from? I'd be really interested in reading it because pretty much everything I can find indicates that..the line was in common parlance at the time.

[Hytheter]

Mearls said in a tweet it was an oversight
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sageadvice.eu/2017/12/03/why-cant-an-arcane-archer-use-crossbows/amp/


Crawford said afterwards that it was not.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sageadvice.eu/2018/05/23/arcane-archer-with-crossbow/amp/

Mearls: Seems reasonable!

Crawford: NO FUN ALLOWED

Well, the Arcane Archer is pretty lacklustre anyway so it's probably moot. The Level 7 feature is just a worse Crossbow Expert anyway if hand crossbow is already your weapon of choice.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Mearls: Seems reasonable!

Crawford: NO FUN ALLOWED

Well, the Arcane Archer is pretty lacklustre anyway so it's probably moot. The Level 7 feature is just a worse Crossbow Expert anyway if hand crossbow is already your weapon of choice.

It is like the BM, Samurai and Champion are better archers.

(I am not putting the EK in the fighter category as he is a gish and it is different in my eyes)

[jaappleton]

While there might be some confusion over what Val said in the movie, Huckleberries are an actual thing. They're a fruit, or really one of several fruits found in the United Stats and Canada. They are so much a thing we have such characters as Huckleberry Finn. Neither here nor there.

There was a saying popular around the time of Tombstone (1879) that read "a huckleberry over a persimmon". Not only that, another popular saying based around that saying was "I'll be your huckleberry" which meant that the person was the one for whatever job the other person might have. You can find some reading on it here (https://victoriawilcoxbooks.com/doc-holliday-stories/im-your-huckleberry/). As noted, the line "I'm your huckleberry" wasn't just in the movie (the script has that line written by the by, so if Val said something wrong he got his line wrong) but it was also in a book that's cited as inspiration for the film.

I honestly couldn't source your claim. Where'd you hear it from? I'd be really interested in reading it because pretty much everything I can find indicates that..the line was in common parlance at the time.

IMDB Trivia section >_>

[KorvinStarmast]

IMDB Trivia section >_> That Huckleberry Hound was not mentioned saddens me. :smallfrown:

[Crgaston]

That Huckleberry Hound was not mentioned saddens me. :smallfrown:

Agree.
That Huckleberry Finn was not saddens me more.

[nickl_2000]

While there might be some confusion over what Val said in the movie, Huckleberries are an actual thing. They're a fruit, or really one of several fruits found in the United Stats and Canada. They are so much a thing we have such characters as Huckleberry Finn. Neither here nor there.

There was a saying popular around the time of Tombstone (1879) that read "a huckleberry over a persimmon". Not only that, another popular saying based around that saying was "I'll be your huckleberry" which meant that the person was the one for whatever job the other person might have. You can find some reading on it here (https://victoriawilcoxbooks.com/doc-holliday-stories/im-your-huckleberry/). As noted, the line "I'm your huckleberry" wasn't just in the movie (the script has that line written by the by, so if Val said something wrong he got his line wrong) but it was also in a book that's cited as inspiration for the film.

I honestly couldn't source your claim. Where'd you hear it from? I'd be really interested in reading it because pretty much everything I can find indicates that..the line was in common parlance at the time.

The bolding is mine.


Agree.
That Huckleberry Finn was not saddens me more.

Be sad no more! :smallbiggrin:

[Crgaston]

The bolding is mine.



Be sad no more! :smallbiggrin:

Crit failed my Perception check!

[jaappleton]

New Development!

DM has allowed both Unearthed Arcana, as well as enabling me to forgo Heavy Armor proficiency in exchange for granting access to Archery Style on a Paladin, and letting Divine Smite work with ranged attacks.

So I've narrowed it down to the following:

Archery Paladin (likely Devotion)

OR

Monster Hunter Fighter from the Gothic Heroes UA
https://media.dnd.wizards.com/upload/articles/UA%20Gothic%20Characters.pdf

Fighter is much more short rest based, obviously. Both can get a nova against Fiends, which will be great for Descent Into Avernus. Fighter gets more attacks, but Paladin isn't a slouch with its Improved Smite at lv11. Devotion Paladin can also make their attacks magical with channel divinity, and Turn the Unholy is also really good. Paladin also has access to plenty of magic and stuff like Bless. Fighter gets many more ASIs / Feats, though.

I'm really torn between these two. Any input?

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Mearls: Seems reasonable!Well, the Arcane Archer is pretty lacklustre anyway so it's probably moot. The Level 7 feature is just a worse Crossbow Expert anyway if hand crossbow is already your weapon of choice.

It's nice on Longbow users, since it gives you something to do with your bonus action. Also, depending on what adventure you're playing making all your arrows count as magic can be a lifesaver, if there aren't any magic bows in the loot provided.

Arcane Shot is extremely subpar compared to Battlemaster Maneuvers, though, it is true.

[Hytheter]

New Development!

DM has allowed both Unearthed Arcana, as well as enabling me to forgo Heavy Armor proficiency in exchange for granting access to Archery Style on a Paladin, and letting Divine Smite work with ranged attacks.

So I've narrowed it down to the following:

Archery Paladin (likely Devotion)

OR

Monster Hunter Fighter from the Gothic Heroes UA
https://media.dnd.wizards.com/upload/articles/UA%20Gothic%20Characters.pdf

Fighter is much more short rest based, obviously. Both can get a nova against Fiends, which will be great for Descent Into Avernus. Fighter gets more attacks, but Paladin isn't a slouch with its Improved Smite at lv11. Devotion Paladin can also make their attacks magical with channel divinity, and Turn the Unholy is also really good. Paladin also has access to plenty of magic and stuff like Bless. Fighter gets many more ASIs / Feats, though.

I'm really torn between these two. Any input?

I don't think I'd pass up the chance to try a ranged paladin, especially if the smite spells are allowed with it too.

[jaappleton]

Any additional thoughts now that I have the option of Ranged Paladin as well as UA?

[Nagog]

Any additional thoughts now that I have the option of Ranged Paladin as well as UA?

I'd go Paladin. Paladins are by far the best all-rounder class, and they excel at pretty much everything. They're the Jack of All Trades, Master of... Well Pretty Much Everything There Too.

Jokes aside, being a Paladin on Avernus is also great lore-wise if you get into a pickle, as having a deity in your backstory somewhere allows you to essentially ask the DM for help in-character if the party gets screwed over somehow.

And imagine a full Smite+Improved Smite+ Archery Style+ Sharpshooter arrow allowing you to straight up nuke some guy from half the battlefield away. No better feeling. You'd thematically be a gunslinger, but mechanically you'd have a sniper rifle.

[Waterdeep Merch]

It's usually crap, but I think you might be able to pull off some interesting things with Oath of the Crown with ranged weaponry. Champion's Challenge, command, and compelled duel are all deliciously cowboy, letting you call out your foes. Divine Allegiance is better than usual when you're sitting next to the wizard than it ever was standing side by side with a fighter/barbarian. Spirit Guardians offers an awesome "nope" field while you do your thing.

Heck, archery in general just sort of fixes this entire subclass.

[micahaphone]

I'm currently playing a cowboy-flavored warlock (lizardfolk, to boot!)
An old pistol is my arcane focus. Eldritch blast shoots from my barrel in a pop pop.

[Kurt Kurageous]

Consider a one time house rule allowing the dexpaly to put smites on ranged weapon attacks instead of melee.

This gives you what you want. Alll it takes is a DM that understands a one time change of the rules favoring ranged weapons (as if they need any more advantages) over melee.

[Crgaston]

Any additional thoughts now that I have the option of Ranged Paladin as well as UA?

I mean... the chance to play a Paladin with ranged Smites is pretty freaking epic. If that extends to the Improved Divine Smite feature... well... 3d6+3d8+ statmodx3 without resources should make you significantly less short-rest dependent.

The obvious race choices are VHuman if you want to start with CBX, or Half elf for the skills/stats, because you're going to want Stealth. There are a couple of background choices that grant Stealth, and Urban Bounty Hunter sounds on point for this concept. Also, stats are much less of an issue if you don't intend to multiclass, since you can roll with a 10 or 12 Str just fine. Which means the only real issue is Darkvision. That'll be completely party/campaign dependent.

Since CBX makes Extra Attack viable with a heavy crossbow, the idea having one strapped to your steed (and how can you pass up Find Steed for this concept??) to pull out when you've got to make a stand against an oncoming enemy is also highly thematic. Even if you never get to use it (haven't read/played Avernus) it's still just freaking cool.

You don't need to invest in Cha as much if you're not going to be hanging out in melee range, since you won't be making optimal use of your Aura. And with regard to ASI's, Bless is equivalent to 1-4 ASI's on your attack rolls, to say nothing of your allies, an Aura-equivalent-ish boost to saves.

I had not looked at Monster Hunter in a while, and had largely forgotten what it does. I think it would satisfy your concept quite well with the bonus proficiencies and other abilities, and you could spend some of those Cha points on Str and Wis.

While you could get another feat earlier (Alert? Sharpshooter?), and be much more SAD, the Superiority dice don't scale as well as Paladin spell slots do in terms of additional damage. You're somewhat limited in your types of uses of them, compared to BM Maneuvers, but the ones you get are solid, especially the dice-to-saves effect.

It would make multiclassing substantially easier, although that eats into your ASI advantage pretty quickly.

2 levels of Rogue on this guy would be super fun. With Expertise in Athletics you would be a beast in a bar fight, which is also thematically awesome. Going 3 levels of Rogue for Inquisitive would fit the steely-eyed gunslinger vibe super well. As would Assassin. Even without Surprise, Advantage to hit when you out-draw them? Yep.

Anyway, love the concept and hope you have fun with it!

[jaappleton]

Definitely leaning Paladin over Fighter.

But what archetype? What Oath?

Heroism is a solid pick, but the channel Divinity might not come into play multiple sessions in a row. And with no spell like Faerie Fire to help crit fishing... But it’s also without an Aura feature, meaning less incentive to be in melee range, which is good for me. Also gets Haste!

Vengeance? I honestly think it’s overrated. And the lv7, with opportunity attacks? Pretty wasted on me.

Devotion... Solid pick. CD to turn Fiends or give myself an attack roll boost is really nice. Can also help capture that ‘Golden Gun’ from Destiny feel. A bit bland, being the tropey Paladin option, but nothing to complain about.

Ancients? Good channel Divinity for Avernus. Spell list.... For a Paladin is good. Some options like Plant Growth are a swing and a miss, though.

Crown is... Interesting. Spirit Guardians is a waste on a ranged PC. The channel Divinity does give it a Duel feel, but so doesn’t the spell Compelled Duel, so Crown is a hard pass.

Oathbreaker? Yeah I’m not looking to pump up the damage coming from Fiends, I’m not crazy!

Conquest has an Aura, incentivizing being in melee, so that’s pretty much a pass.

Heroism, Devotion or Ancients?

[sigfile]

But what archetype? What Oath?

Redemption. "I don't suppose you fellas would consider talkin' this out. No? I didn't think so."

Your Channel Divinity throws a big hit back at a foe once per short rest as radiant damage. You get Hold Person, Hypnotic Pattern, and Counterspell. You get to use the level seven "I take your damage for you" aura from behind the front-lines.

[jaappleton]

Redemption. "I don't suppose you fellas would consider talkin' this out. No? I didn't think so."

Your Channel Divinity throws a big hit back at a foe once per short rest as radiant damage. You get Hold Person, Hypnotic Pattern, and Counterspell. You get to use the level seven "I take your damage for you" aura from behind the front-lines.

.......This actually might be the only time I think Redemption might be a solid pick.

As someone in the back, with a d10 HD, I should take less damage than the frontliners and be able to have a little health to spare.

Hmm. Certainly something to think about.

[Crgaston]

Definitely leaning Paladin over Fighter.

But what archetype? What Oath?

Heroism is a solid pick, but the channel Divinity might not come into play multiple sessions in a row. And with no spell like Faerie Fire to help crit fishing... But it’s also without an Aura feature, meaning less incentive to be in melee range, which is good for me. Also gets Haste!

Vengeance? I honestly think it’s overrated. And the lv7, with opportunity attacks? Pretty wasted on me.

Devotion... Solid pick. CD to turn Fiends or give myself an attack roll boost is really nice. Can also help capture that ‘Golden Gun’ from Destiny feel. A bit bland, being the tropey Paladin option, but nothing to complain about.

Ancients? Good channel Divinity for Avernus. Spell list.... For a Paladin is good. Some options like Plant Growth are a swing and a miss, though.

Crown is... Interesting. Spirit Guardians is a waste on a ranged PC. The channel Divinity does give it a Duel feel, but so doesn’t the spell Compelled Duel, so Crown is a hard pass.

Oathbreaker? Yeah I’m not looking to pump up the damage coming from Fiends, I’m not crazy!

Conquest has an Aura, incentivizing being in melee, so that’s pretty much a pass.

Heroism, Devotion or Ancients?

I had thought you were pretty set on Devotion, but I am a huge fan of Ancients. It sounds like the spell damage resistance would come in handy in this particular campaign.

Plant Growth is actually phenomenal for this character. The area of affect is huge (100'r) and movement within it costs 4x normal. You can sculpt it however you wish, leaving your allies relatively/entirely unaffected. This isn't Difficult Terrain, however, so it would stack with DT. Anyone without a fly speed is a sitting duck for you.

As an archer, having this kind of control over your enemies' movement is invaluable.
Plus it's not Concentration, so you can still use Smite spells.