Question

[Hunterx]

Here is an interesting question,

What happens if you have an Illumiian Wizard 3 Rogue
Krau ("magic"): +1 bonus to caster level for all spells and spell-like abilities (up to a maximum value equal to the illumian's character level). and practice spell caster

Just to expand on this a little: Krau states that you get caster level for spells and spell like abilities to the max value equal to the character level at level 2 this goes to +2 and Practice spellcaster gives you a up to a +4 caster level for any cross classing you have so if you have the following

Wizard 1 Rogue 1 Swashbuckler 3 Unseen Seer 10 x 5 With the wording of both Krau and Practice spell caster you should get the following.

Wizard spells of an 11th level wizard
Cast at a 23th level wizard because the you have 4 class levels that the practise spellcaster which increases you caster level up to 15 which is your hit dice Than Krau at level 2 give s a +2 since you have 4 level that is +2 per level which is a +8 to your +15 for a +23. There is nothing in Krau that limits you to any number except the number that would be given can not be higher than your Char level which it is not. as you are a level 15 char the bonus is only +8.

The math looks good to me is there something i am missing ?

[Vaern]

I have no idea how you're getting +8 out of Krau. It grants a flat +2 bonus to caster level at level 2. It is not a +2 bonus to caster level for each class you have levels in. A +2 bonus to all of your spells means that if you're a wizard 3/cleric 3 it's giving you a +2 bonus to caster level for wizard spells and a +2 bonus to caster level for cleric spells, not a +4 bonus for all of your spells.
The bit on the description of Krau that says "up to a maximum value equal to the illumian's character level" means it can only raise your caster level up to your character level, not that you can have a bonus to your caster level up to your character level. There's a sidebar about Illumian power sigils in Races of Destiny clarifying this, going so far as to specify that it offers no bonus to a full spellcaster because their caster level is typically already equal to your character level. The +2 bonus from Krau basically works the same way as the +4 bonus from Practiced Spellcaster.
Your Wizard 1/Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 1/Unseen Seer has both 15 character levels and 15 hit dice. Between Krau and Practiced Spellcaster you can raise your caster level by up to 6, but neither will increase your caster level past 15.

[JNAProductions]

Hunter, you've repeatedly posted on this forum with the assumption that Krau gives you a bonus EQUAL to your level, not CAPPED by your level.

That is not the RAW, RAI, or Rules As Played.

You have not discovered some unforeseen trick, you're contorting words to get a desired outcome.

[AvatarVecna]

{Scrubbed}

[Hunterx]

I have no idea how you're getting +8 out of Krau. It grants a flat +2 bonus to caster level at level 2. It is not a +2 bonus to caster level for each class you have levels in. A +2 bonus to all of your spells means that if you're a wizard 3/cleric 3 it's giving you a +2 bonus to caster level for wizard spells and a +2 bonus to caster level for cleric spells, not a +4 bonus for all of your spells.
The bit on the description of Krau that says "up to a maximum value equal to the illumian's character level" means it can only raise your caster level up to your character level, not that you can have a bonus to your caster level up to your character level. There's a sidebar about Illumian power sigils in Races of Destiny clarifying this, going so far as to specify that it offers no bonus to a full spellcaster because their caster level is typically already equal to your character level. The +2 bonus from Krau basically works the same way as the +4 bonus from Practiced Spellcaster.
Your Wizard 1/Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 1/Unseen Seer has both 15 character levels and 15 hit dice. Between Krau and Practiced Spellcaster you can raise your caster level by up to 6, but neither will increase your caster level past 15.

Even if it is a +6 than that would mean that a the character would be casting spells of an 11th level wizard at caster level 17.
if it is a cap of your char level than why does it say up to a max of your char level if all you can ever get is a +2 and nothing more? the wording does not make sense and I believe there is more to this. The wording for practice spellcaster says it very clear and it make it perfect you cannot improve over your HD and you get a +4 period that is clear as a bell. However Krau is not so clear and with the word bonus and up to a max of your char level there is no way that it can stop at just 2. Yes i understand that this would make it very powerful but Rage and Frenzy stack as do Power attack and other huge hit builds so why does this not give you a +1/+2 bonus up to a max of your char level it is not like it would make spell casters any more op than they are now. I agree that it is for cross classing for sure but do not agree that it stops at +2.

The wording is to powerful for it to be such a little small +2 to caster level which would do nothing for a wizard cleric at all that has multi classed. A Wizard 1 Fighter 3 would cast level 1 spells as a third level wizard. While with practice spellcaster the same char casts level 1 spells as a level 4 wizard.

If the method I give is true the same char would cast level 1 spells as a 7 wizard, those are level 1 which if continued in wiz for the next 16 so wiz 17 fighter 3 would be casting level 9 spells as a 23 level wizard which is not that huge.

[Hunterx]

Hunter, you've repeatedly posted on this forum with the assumption that Krau gives you a bonus EQUAL to your level, not CAPPED by your level.

That is not the RAW, RAI, or Rules As Played.

You have not discovered some unforeseen trick, you're contorting words to get a desired outcome.

again how can it be capped by your level if the max you can get is 2. So it is not capped at your level it is capped at 2. Which is not what it says at all.

[JNAProductions]

Max of your character level means that Caster Level+Caster Level Bonus has a maximum of your Character Level.

So, a Fighter 2/Wizard 1 with Krau casts at Caster Level 3 for their Wizard spells. But a Wizard 3 gains no benefit, since 3+2=5 BUT the Caster Level Bonus cannot cause your Caster Level to exceed your Character Level.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: a reminder to everyone to be civil. If you can't engage within the rules, don't engage.

[AvatarVecna]

Alright let's approach in good faith. So, Wizard 1/Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 3/Unseen Seer 10 with Krau sign and the Practiced Spellcaster feat. There's no obvious lack-of-prereqs that I can see, or at least nothing that isn't the result of "this isn't the full build post" (for example, you don't specify that you've spent 4 ranks on Spellcraft to qualify for Practiced Spellcaster, but it's a safe bet that you probably would in a full build). AFAICT, from pure class levels you would have a base CL of 11 (Wizard 1/Unseen Seer 10), but with CL +3 for divinations and CL -3 for non-divinations (so CL 8, but 14 for divinations). Then we apply Practiced Spellcaster's bonus, which catches you up based on the lost Caster Levels from being a rogue 1/Swashbuckler 3, and that gets you to CL 12, or 18 for divinations. From there, we add in Krau Sign (...maybe, depends on if the DM in question interprets it as intended to work like Practiced Spellcaster does...but for our purposes, let's assume that's not what the cap means), which gives CL +2, putting you at CL 14, but CL 20 for divinations.

This has you as a lvl 15 character casting 6th lvl spells, mostly at CL 14 but with really powerful divinations. Spell levels are a bit behind what a straight wizard would have, but "weaker than a standard wizard" is hardly a crime against optimization, and you've got a much higher divination CL than an equal-level wizard could have, even an Illumian. I'm not really sure how you got CL 23 out of this, though, unless you're harboring under the delusion that a mechanic saying "you get +1 at lvl 1 and +2 at lvl 2" is requires to give you +3 at lvl 3, and +4 at lvl 4, and so on. That's not how progressions work; however obvious the pattern may be, if the game doesn't explicitly say the bonus is determined by a level-based pattern, it isn't.

EDIT: I'm not responding to any response to this, either. This is the limit of the effort I'm putting in; either you accept that a static progression is static, or you continue arguing that it gradually increases even though none of the mechanics that define the bonus say that the bonus ever gets any bigger than +2.

[Hunterx]

Max of your character level means that Caster Level+Caster Level Bonus has a maximum of your Character Level.

So, a Fighter 2/Wizard 1 with Krau casts at Caster Level 3 for their Wizard spells. But a Wizard 3 gains no benefit, since 3+2=5 BUT the Caster Level Bonus cannot cause your Caster Level to exceed your Character Level.


That is not the wordin of Krau it says a +1 bonus to casting levels involving spells and spell like abilities. ( Up to a max that can not exceed the lumina character level) so at level 2 this bonus goes to 2 we all agree on this. Now if you have 3 levels that are a non caster but you have 7 as a caster 3 levels of non caster at 2 levels per is 6 that is lower than you character level of 10. So the bonus of 6 is less than 10 and so it applies because it does not exceed your level.

So while casting spells and spell like abilities while sigils are active you get this bonus.

Plus no where does it say this does not apply to full casters.

[JNAProductions]

The max the bonus can raise you to is your Character Level.

If you have 20 HD, and normally have a Caster Level of 18, Krau raises it to 20. If your Caster Level was 17, it'd raise it to 19. If it was 19 by default, it could only raise it to 20, since that's your Character Level.

Edit: Reference.


Enhanced Power Sigils
Your illumian power sigils are more powerful than normal.

Prerequisites
Illumian, two power sigils

Benefit
The bonuses granted by each of your power sigils improve by 1.

Normal
Without this feat, the bonuses granted by each of your power sigils are equal to the number of power sigils you possess.

I repeat:


Normal
Without this feat, the bonuses granted by each of your power sigils are equal to the number of power sigils you possess.

That is NOT equal to Character Level.

[Hunterx]

The max the bonus can raise you to is your Character Level.

If you have 20 HD, and normally have a Caster Level of 18, Krau raises it to 20. If your Caster Level was 17, it'd raise it to 19. If it was 19 by default, it could only raise it to 20, since that's your Character Level.

Edit: Reference.



I repeat:



That is NOT equal to Character Level.


Alright so an Illumian Wizard 2 Fighter 4 without Sigial Krau and enhanced sigil and empowered Krau would cast all spells at CL5 and 2 spells at CL 6. This however does not your max character level for all you base spells it is however for 2 spells. So your math does not seem to work when it says you can go up to the max if you character level.

[Hellpyre]

I can't tell for certain if you are being obtuse intentionally, so I'll assume you are not.

The sigil adds two to your caster level, with the bonus not allowing your Caster Level to exceed your total character level. It does not provide an additional +2 CL per class, to a total bonus of up to your character level. It provides a single bonus of +2 CL, said bonus capping total effective caster level at your character level.

I think what confuses you is that if you have multiple different spellcasting progressions, each can benefit independantly for the sigil, but PrCs without a separate progression do not double dip this bonus for the class they advance the spellcasting of.

[Hunterx]

I can't tell for certain if you are being obtuse intentionally, so I'll assume you are not.

The sigil adds two to your caster level, with the bonus not allowing your Caster Level to exceed your total character level. It does not provide an additional +2 CL per class, to a total bonus of up to your character level. It provides a single bonus of +2 CL, said bonus capping total effective caster level at your character level.

I think what confuses you is that if you have multiple different spellcasting progressions, each can benefit independantly for the sigil, but PrCs without a separate progression do not double dip this bonus for the class they advance the spellcasting of.

Ok,so The sigil gives a +2 than if you have enhanced sigil that would be +3 and if you had improved Krau that would be +4 to two spells correct?

Which in turn if you had a cleric 2 wizard 2 you could cast one divine spell and one arcane spell as a level 5 spell, and all the rest as level 4 spells. ?

[JNAProductions]

Ok,so The sigil gives a +2 than if you have enhanced sigil that would be +3 and if you had improved Krau that would be +4 to two spells correct?

Which in turn if you had a cleric 2 wizard 2 you could cast one divine spell and one arcane spell as a level 5 spell, and all the rest as level 4 spells. ?

No. If you're a Wizard 2/Cleric 2, your Character Level is 4. So, Krau Sigil (and Practiced Spellcaster, but you didn't mention that in the quoted post) cannot take you over Caster Level 4.

[Khedrac]

Ok,so The sigil gives a +2 than if you have enhanced sigil that would be +3 and if you had improved Krau that would be +4 to two spells correct?

Which in turn if you had a cleric 2 wizard 2 you could cast one divine spell and one arcane spell as a level 5 spell, and all the rest as level 4 spells. ?

And one other point of confusion/clarification:
A "level 5 spell" is usually (99%+) taken to mean a 5th level spell, not a 1st level spell being cast at caster level 5.

Your sample Wiz2/cleric 2 will only have access to 0th and 1st level spells (as a second level cleric and as a second level wizard) - what the caster-level boosts (from Krau and practised spellcaster) do is allow the caster to count as a higher level for each spell's level-dependent effects (including penetrating Spell Resistance and dispel checks).
Take magic missile, at caster level 2 it creates 1 missile with a range of 120 ft, at caster level 4 it creates 2 missiles with a range of 140 ft, but it remains a 1st level spell.
The caster level boosts do not allow you to prepare spells as if you are a higher level, (usually) only levels of classes grant this.

[Hellpyre]

Ok,so The sigil gives a +2 than if you have enhanced sigil that would be +3 and if you had improved Krau that would be +4 to two spells correct?

Which in turn if you had a cleric 2 wizard 2 you could cast one divine spell and one arcane spell as a level 5 spell, and all the rest as level 4 spells. ?

So the Improved Sigil doesn't actually affect CL of a spell at all. It heightens the spell level of selected spell, which is something else (and is why it shows up in optimization posts). In your example, you could cast all of your spells (which would be 0th- and 1st-level spells) at a caster level of 4, and additionally, could cast a number of selected spells as 1 spell level higher (so 0s as 1sts, and 1sts as 2nds) for the bonus that gives to save DC and spell resistance penetration. They would still be a spell you know of the original level, and at a caster level of 4, just considered a spell level higher where that is relevant.

[Rijan_Sai]

Ok,so The sigil gives a +2 than if you have enhanced sigil that would be +3 and if you had improved Krau that would be +4 to two spells correct?

Which in turn if you had a cleric 2 wizard 2 you could cast one divine spell and one arcane spell as a level 5 spell, and all the rest as level 4 spells. ?

Almost.
Reading the feats in question, the Cleric 2/Wizard 2 would cast all their spells at caster level 4 (2 from class +2 from the sigils, as that is their maximum character level. If they were to take another level in I.E. wizard (Cle2/Wiz3) they would both increase to CL 5: Cle 2 from class +2 from sigils +1 from Enhanced Sigil / Wiz 3 from class =2 from sigil.)

The 2 spells chosen from Improved Sigil (Krau) would be 1st level spells cast as [Effective] 2nd level spells, with all the increased range/damage/save DC/etc. When they take that next level of Wizard, they can reassign the spells chosen; any of the 2nd level wizard spells would be cast as [Effective] 3rd level spells.


(I figured I would be ninja'd on this, but perhaps a slightly different wording can help with any confusion?

[Hunterx]

Almost.
Reading the feats in question, the Cleric 2/Wizard 2 would cast all their spells at caster level 4 (2 from class +2 from the sigils, as that is their maximum character level. If they were to take another level in I.E. wizard (Cle2/Wiz3) they would both increase to CL 5: Cle 2 from class +2 from sigils +1 from Enhanced Sigil / Wiz 3 from class =2 from sigil.)

The 2 spells chosen from Improved Sigil (Krau) would be 1st level spells cast as [Effective] 2nd level spells, with all the increased range/damage/save DC/etc. When they take that next level of Wizard, they can reassign the spells chosen; any of the 2nd level wizard spells would be cast as [Effective] 3rd level spells.


(I figured I would be ninja'd on this, but perhaps a slightly different wording can help with any confusion?

Caster Level

A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell.

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

In the event that a class feature, domain granted power, or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt) but also to your caster level check to overcome your target’s spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).

So caster level has all determinations including damage duration range DC ext, Krau sigil level 2 char gives a +2 to caster level Enpowered sigil makes the bonus from Krau a +3

Improved sigil Krau makes the spell a +1 level so basically it is a +4 to a select number of spells.
If you take Magic missile and Level 1 you would cast three missiles each doing 1D4+5

[JNAProductions]

Spell Level=/=Caster Level.

[MisterKaws]

Huh, why all the heat? Let me hop in.


Improved sigil Krau makes the spell a +1 level so basically it is a +4 to a select number of spells.
If you take Magic missile and Level 1 you would cast three missiles each doing 1D4+5

No. Read the merriam-webster definition for "up to" (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/up%20to).

"Up to a maximum of your character level" means the Krau bonus can never, on its own take you above your character level. Now, if you had another caster level bonus that wasn't limited, like say, Master Spellthief, you could apply Krau first up to your character level, and then apply master spellthief afterwards, since bonuses are granted in the order that is most beneficial to the character. It still does not, ever, allow you to go past your character level on its own. Your Magic Missiles will be cast with a CL of 1 regardless of what you want it to be.

Isn't it simple? No need to get all heated up.

[Hunterx]

No. If you're a Wizard 2/Cleric 2, your Character Level is 4. So, Krau Sigil (and Practiced Spellcaster, but you didn't mention that in the quoted post) cannot take you over Caster Level 4.

You caster level is 2 in each class so you do not have a caster level of 4 at all. You have a caster level of 2 in wizard and 2 in cleric that is not a caster level of four that is a caster level of 2/2. I did not have practice spellcaster in the last posting for a reason I am working just with the sigils and their feats as they are the ones that are giving me a bit a trouble PS is clear as a bell. +4 to all spell casters but can not push you over your HD. Krau uses character level not HD. Since your char level is 4 and Krau gives you +2 one from each sigil and enhanced sigil makes that a +3 you are still not over your character level. For the bonus since the bonus can be up to your char level. Now with the Improved Krau it makes the spell act as a level higher, but with something like magic missiles the higher the caster level the more missiles you get.
So Wizard 2 Cleric 2, Enhanced Krau +3 Improved sigil Krau gives you magic missiles equal to 6th level which there is no bonus for at 5th level you get 3 missiles and deal +5 damage. Yo have to remember that each class is apart they do not stack together.

[Hunterx]

Huh, why all the heat? Let me hop in.



No. Read the merriam-webster definition for "up to" (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/up%20to).

"Up to a maximum of your character level" means the Krau bonus can never, on its own take you above your character level. Now, if you had another caster level bonus that wasn't limited, like say, Master Spellthief, you could apply Krau first up to your character level, and then apply master spellthief afterwards, since bonuses are granted in the order that is most beneficial to the character. It still does not, ever, allow you to go past your character level on its own. Your Magic Missiles will be cast with a CL of 1 regardless of what you want it to be.

Isn't it simple? No need to get all heated up.

I found my mistake the level from improved Krau brings the spell to a 2 and +3 from the enhanced Krau make it a 5 and that is over your char level.

You would cast them as a level 4 spell which means you are firing 2 missiles doing 1D4+4 damage each.

[Hunterx]

Huh, why all the heat? Let me hop in.



No. Read the merriam-webster definition for "up to" (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/up%20to).

"Up to a maximum of your character level" means the Krau bonus can never, on its own take you above your character level. Now, if you had another caster level bonus that wasn't limited, like say, Master Spellthief, you could apply Krau first up to your character level, and then apply master spellthief afterwards, since bonuses are granted in the order that is most beneficial to the character. It still does not, ever, allow you to go past your character level on its own. Your Magic Missiles will be cast with a CL of 1 regardless of what you want it to be.

Isn't it simple? No need to get all heated up.

if you are going to try and use websters as a defence you will lose because the bonus is used a lot and bonus means in addition to. So just keep to the normal stuff and keep logic out of fiction

[JNAProductions]

Spell Level=/=Caster Level

And words mean what they mean-D&D is written in English. Use English words.

[MisterKaws]

if you are going to try and use websters as a defence you will lose because the bonus is used a lot and bonus means in addition to. So just keep to the normal stuff and keep logic out of fiction

You don't get to argue english when you can't use punctuation. "Up to a maximum of your character level" means "to a limit equal to your character level". There's no roundabout to that.

You should just spare these guys who've been keeping you company and start going for the actually broken Master Spellthief.

[Hellpyre]

if you are going to try and use websters as a defence you will lose because the bonus is used a lot and bonus means in addition to. So just keep to the normal stuff and keep logic out of fiction

And indeed it is an addition - to your normal caster level. The sigil increases the caster level for each of your spellcasting progressions by up to +2 (or +3 with the empowered sigil), but that bonus cannot increase your caster level for any progression to a number higher than your total character level. It provides a smaller bonus than Practiced Spellcaster, but provides it to each class' progression, instead of only a single one. But both have the caveat that you cannot increase your caster level above your character level as a result of the bonus.

Improved Sigil (Krau), on the other hand, increases the spell level of a given spell, without being limited to the maximum spell level of your normally available spell slots. In this way, it is similar to the Heighten Spell metamagic feat.

So for, say, a Wizard 3/Cleric 2 with Krau, you could cast Wizard spells with a caster level of 5, and cast spells of up to the second spell level (for example, flaming sphere). You could cast Cleric spells with a caster level of 4 (or 5 with empowered sigil increasing the maximum bonus to 3 caster levels), and cast spells of up to the first spell level (for example, cure light wounds).

Assuming an Int score of 16, a flaming sphere would last 5 rounds (duration determined by Caster Level) and allow a reflex save with a DC of 15 for the save, or a DC of 16 if it was a spell you chose for Improved Sigil (Krau) (spell DC equals 10 + spell level + casting ability bonus).

Does this help any?

[Hunterx]

And indeed it is an addition - to your normal caster level. The sigil increases the caster level for each of your spellcasting progressions by up to +2 (or +3 with the empowered sigil), but that bonus cannot increase your caster level for any progression to a number higher than your total character level. It provides a smaller bonus than Practiced Spellcaster, but provides it to each class' progression, instead of only a single one. But both have the caveat that you cannot increase your caster level above your character level as a result of the bonus.

Improved Sigil (Krau), on the other hand, increases the spell level of a given spell, without being limited to the maximum spell level of your normally available spell slots. In this way, it is similar to the Heighten Spell metamagic feat.

So for, say, a Wizard 3/Cleric 2 with Krau, you could cast Wizard spells with a caster level of 5, and cast spells of up to the second spell level (for example, flaming sphere). You could cast Cleric spells with a caster level of 4 (or 5 with empowered sigil increasing the maximum bonus to 3 caster levels), and cast spells of up to the first spell level (for example, cure light wounds).

Assuming an Int score of 16, a flaming sphere would last 5 rounds (duration determined by Caster Level) and allow a reflex save with a DC of 15 for the save, or a DC of 16 if it was a spell you chose for Improved Sigil (Krau) (spell DC equals 10 + spell level + casting ability bonus).

Does this help any?


perfect thanks, that is what i was thinking. the way i constructed the words maybe did not show that but that was the exact idea.
So a level 2/2 would be casting spells as a level 5 but only for the level they can cast within their class. with the exception of the Improved Krau.

Now would improve krau and heighten spell both work together to make it a level 3 spell?

[Hellpyre]

perfect thanks, that is what i was thinking. the way i constructed the words maybe did not show that but that was the exact idea.
So a level 2/2 would be casting spells as a level 5 but only for the level they can cast within their class. with the exception of the Improved Krau.

Now would improve krau and heighten spell both work together to make it a level 3 spell?

To the first part, not quite. The example I gave was a 3/2 character, which is why Krau could improve CL to 5. A 2/2 could still only manage CL 4/4, even with Enhanced Power Sigils. A 3/2 character would have CL 5/4 without Enhanced Power Sigils, or CL 5/5 with that feat. But they would still have spells prepared (and known, if applicable) as their actual 3/2 character levels.

For your question, kind of, but that is because heightened spells have to be prepared in a slot of the appropriate spell level. So combining them for say, magic missle, Heightened to a 2nd-level slot (available to you at Wizard level 3) could then be improved to a 3rd level spell for DC and Spell resistance purposes by Improved Krau. But flaming sphere is already a second level spell, and so Krau alone is enough to improve it to a third level spell.

Heighten lets you prepare spells as though they were of a higher spell level, but only within your normal limits of slots prepared.

Improved Krau lets certain spells be cast a single spell level higher than they are prepared as.

Combining the two lets you prepare any spell as though it were of its own level or a higher level than its own, up to your normal maximum, and then cast it as though it were an additional spell level higher.

[Hunterx]

To the first part, not quite. The example I gave was a 3/2 character, which is why Krau could improve CL to 5. A 2/2 could still only manage CL 4/4, even with Enhanced Power Sigils. A 3/2 character would have CL 5/4 without Enhanced Power Sigils, or CL 5/5 with that feat. But they would still have spells prepared (and known, if applicable) as their actual 3/2 character levels.

For your question, kind of, but that is because heightened spells have to be prepared in a slot of the appropriate spell level. So combining them for say, magic missle, Heightened to a 2nd-level slot (available to you at Wizard level 3) could then be improved to a 3rd level spell for DC and Spell resistance purposes by Improved Krau. But flaming sphere is already a second level spell, and so Krau alone is enough to improve it to a third level spell.

Heighten lets you prepare spells as though they were of a higher spell level, but only within your normal limits of slots prepared.

Improved Krau lets certain spells be cast a single spell level higher than they are prepared as.

Combining the two lets you prepare any spell as though it were of its own level or a higher level than its own, up to your normal maximum, and then cast it as though it were an additional spell level higher.

I think i got that now. But do not spells like missiles go off of your caster level for damage range ext since they do not have a duration? If you are increasing the caster level than the spell should do more damage. Missiles being a funny one since it does not have a DC at all and is just range damage and number of missiles.

[Hellpyre]

Yes, magic missles scales mostly off of caster level, but if you needed to hit a creature with spell resistance, casting it at a higher spell level would increase your odds of overcoming it. And certain other effects, like less globe of invulnerability can flat out negate spells below a certain spell level.