Might I ask for ideas to optimize a half-elf bard?

[Odessa333]

So as topic says, I'm making a new half-elf bard for a group on roll20. I applied with the bard concept without knowing the party, thinking a lore bard never hurts. Well, the party is level 2 and have a rogue/monk (going for shadow monk), a cleric/Paladin (combo I don't know much about?), an enchantment wizard, and a celestial warlock. It seems a fun group, though I'm not sure if lore bard is the best pick at this point. Like I'm pretty sure I have the most HP of the party and one of the better AC's, so I'm thinking college of swords might be the better option.

Normally I'd have time to think on it, but there are two homebrews rules in play. One, we get a free starting feat as the DM's too generous for his own good lol. So I need to pick a feat, and that's going to determine how I play the character. Second one, the DM allows flanking, with flanking giving advantage of all things. The college of glamor ability to let the whole party move could become very powerful with such a rule in play.


Anywho, the party makeup and rules have left me uncertain, and thought I'd ask for some ideas for spells, feats, subclass, etc. I like talking about the game and don't get a reason to do so very often, so if you have time I'll happily listen to ideas for feats, spells, subclass, whatever. It's for Tyranny of dragons if that matters, though I don't know the module yet so no spoilers please.

Thank you for your time!

[bid]

Like I'm pretty sure I have the most HP of the party and one of the better AC's, so I'm thinking college of swords might be the better option.
There's something very wrong if you have the best AC/hp.
Paladin and monk should be ahead of you. They should have at least as much hp with Con14 (more for paladin 1d10HD). Their AC16-18 is better than your AC15. And both can reach AC20.

As lore you want Dex16 Con14 Cha16, free feat should be inspiring leader. That's 18 hp and AC15 with studded leather. Your best schtick is counterspell since jack of all trade and BI boost your roll.

Sword doesn't give you shield prof. You can't have better AC than monk.

[Bobthewizard]

I like lore bard with the moderately armored feat as your starting feat. It gets you the best part of valor bard (medium armor and shield) but you still get magical secrets at 6. You can leave DEX at 14 then and use your next ASIs for CHA or feats - I like actor and resilient CON next. Inspiring leader is great too.

I'm not a big fan of swords bard by itself. They don't get shield proficiency and then the medium armor is wasted since they need to pump DEX to use a sword. They have too much pull between DEX and CHA for me. Swords bard is fixed with a dip in Hexblade. You'd go hexblade 1 for a shield and CHA attacks then back to swords bard until 6 for the extra attack, then back to hexblade 3 for improved pact weapon, then bard all the way.

I hate giving up level 6 magical secrets, but Glamour might be fun with those flanking rules.


Your best schtick is counterspell since jack of all trade and BI boost your roll.

While it's always good to have more than one person with it, the wizard will be better than you at counterspell for a long time. You get jack of all trades but they get your bardic inspiration which you can't give to yourself until lore bard's peerless skill at 14.

[diplomancer]

You might consider the actor feat. You will be able to start with Cha 18, as well as the other benefits it brings.

But, yes, I have no idea how you can have better hit points and AC then the rogue/monk and the cleric/paladin, or even the warlock.

[dragoeniex]

If you like the looks of Glamour, go for it! Flanking is a great excuse to take what was already a great subclass. You may be setting your team up to spike, or you may be letting them quit their part-time job as the enemies' party piniata. Plus, Glamour gets a lot of flavorful, effective perks.

Swords bard is also fun if you're wanting to gish on the side. I'd actually recommend looking at subclasses other than Lore in general since you can use a feat to lean into whatever concept you like, and also Lore is a touch boring imo.

War Caster is already a nice feat and becomes even moreso on Swords if you plan on assisting with melee more often. And Mobile lets you dabble in some of that running rings around enemies you like from Glamour.

Actor could be fun on Glamour if you want to captivate attention but also make a big show out of pretending to be someone else for a while. Steal a local celebrity's fanbase while pretending to be them.

Resilient: Constitution and Tough are never not good picks. And I like the idea of the most glitzy, fragile-looking PC being able to take some big hits and come up smiling.

[Odessa333]

I'm not sure why the AC is so low (I've messaged the cleric to ask for example) but for HP, the DM allows for rolling, and most of the party did. And rolled badly. I'm taking the average which helps, and I have a high CON. Which really, I have a high everything with the most stat blessed rolls I think I've ever had: 18, 16, 15, 14, 14, 10. Putting the 18 to CHA bumps it to 20 off the bat. I put the 16 to DEX, the 15 (with +1 for a second 16) to CON, the 14's to INT and WIS, and 10 (+1 for 11) to STR. While it's not six 18's, it's the highest starting stats I can recall having, giving me 19 HP for level 2.

Oddly enough, I feel the high stats a blessing and curse, as I feel like I should be good at everything with these stats and jack of all trades. I should be the gish of all gish bards! I just don't know how to do that lol. Hexblade, college of glamor, lore, swords... all have their pro's and con's. I keep sitting down thinking 'this time I'll make a decision!' and just debating it nonstop it my head. I can't decide on a clear winner. I HATE that feeling, that I'm losing something important no matter which choice I make. Oy.

[Lyracian]

I'm not sure why the AC is so low (I've messaged the cleric to ask for example) but for HP, the DM allows for rolling, and most of the party did. And rolled badly. I'm taking the average which helps, and I have a high CON. Which really, I have a high everything with the most stat blessed rolls I think I've ever had: 18, 16, 15, 14, 14, 10. Putting the 18 to CHA bumps it to 20 off the bat. I put the 16 to DEX, the 15 (with +1 for a second 16) to CON, the 14's to INT and WIS, and 10 (+1 for 11) to STR. While it's not six 18's, it's the highest starting stats I can recall having, giving me 19 HP for level 2.
If they are all in the 8-12 Con and you are 16 I can see that putting you at the top of the health track. Still struggling to see the AC. If your stats are not set in stone I would leave Str at 10 and increase Wisdom. You can pick up Res (Con) and then use a single ASI for +1 to Con and Wiz or other half feat later.


Oddly enough, I feel the high stats a blessing and curse, as I feel like I should be good at everything with these stats and jack of all trades. I should be the gish of all gish bards! I just don't know how to do that lol.With most of the party already Multi-classed my pick would be Knowledge Cleric 1/Lore Bard x. You get even more skills. You can then have Inspiriting Leader or Res (Con) as your free feat and take the other at Level 4.

If you want to be a pure Bard then Moderately Armoured is the feat I would take. With a 16 Dex you can take Medium Armour Master later to really make yourself the top AC in the party!

[Misterwhisper]

Optimizing a half elf bard is pretty simple:

Start with high charisma.
Make sure dex, wis and con are ok like 14.

Take the good bard spells.

At 3 go lore.

Cherry pick the best spells from other classes.

Be skill guy and caster guy.

Win.

[dragoeniex]

Oddly enough, I feel the high stats a blessing and curse, as I feel like I should be good at everything with these stats and jack of all trades. I should be the gish of all gish bards!

First off, congrats on the stats- that is a very nice spread! Second, the above snip makes it sound like you'd really like to do some gishing around.

If you want to do multi-hit style, I'd recommend going Swords and taking the Mobile feat-- slash 'n dash as you need to move around between spells!

If you want to do single, striker hits, go Whispers to turn some Inspiration die into pseudo Sneak Attacks. I would pair this with a dip into Hexblade Warlock for the Booming Blade cantrip (make it hurt even more, why don't you) and the Shield spell- which will spike your AC even better than medium armor when you get stuck in a tight spot.

Hexblade is a popular dip for a reason and does work fine with Swords too, but Booming Blade is really tempting and doesn't work guilt-free if you're giving up a second attack for it. Either or, you're attacking with your Charisma stat now.

I've got a weakness for Whispers, so I'm a touch biased, but I love those two spike abilities together. I also like the spooky, social manipulation tactics Whispers gets. For this set, I'd go with War Caster so you could use Booming Blade on opportunity attacks while picking up that sweet, sweet concentration save advantage.

Valor doesn't get enough validation as an option, imo. It's good for boosting your at-rest AC and tossing Inspiration at friends to give them a one-use boost to their own. More steady, less flashy. Mobile would be good with the two attacks, while War Caster would let you hold your dang physical shield while still casting around. Either feat would be fine.



Choosing the "right" bard can be tricky since they've got the tragic problem of being pretty dang good in all their subclass variants. If you're still feeling at-odds over the decision, my next recommendation would be thinking about what kind of social interactions you'd like your bard to lean into. That's half the skills and flavor for some of these, after all!

[Corran]

Well, the party is level 2 and have a rogue/monk (going for shadow monk), a cleric/Paladin (combo I don't know much about?), an enchantment wizard, and a celestial warlock.
Lots of squishies. An AC boost would be nice.


Normally I'd have time to think on it, but there are two homebrews rules in play.
…
Second one, the DM allows flanking, with flanking giving advantage of all things. The college of glamor ability to let the whole party move could become very powerful with such a rule in play.
That will hurt you, because you have several pc's that don't want to stay engaged in melee. You need bodies up front. I think this would be enough to lock me to lore bard, for some early magical secrets pick. I am thinking conjure animals. Maybe animate dead (or plant growth) too even.


...One, we get a free starting feat as the DM's too generous for his own good lol. So I need to pick a feat, and that's going to determine how I play the character.
That helps going with lore bard. I'd make the free feat moderately armored (assuming not going with the popular hexblade dip, otherwise skip this feat), and I'd pick warcaster or resilient con with my 4th level ASI.

[Evaar]

So with those stats, I’d make a case for a melee bard. You can afford it. Swords or Valor, take your pick, there’s a decent chance you’ll end up semi tanking. I think you’ll do better in that role as Valor, but you can manage it as Swords if that’s more appealing to you.

I hear everyone pushing you towards Lore, but you’re starting with a 20 Charisma and great results in your other stats. With Lore, those other stats kind of go to waste a little bit.

[dragoeniex]

That will hurt you, because you have several pc's that don't want to stay engaged in melee. You need bodies up front. I think this would be enough to lock me to lore bard, for some early magical secrets pick. I am thinking conjure animals. Maybe animate dead too even.

It makes a pretty great case for Glamour, honestly, with the ability to move allies around defensively and out of the pummel zones.

[Corran]

It makes a pretty great case for Glamour, honestly, with the ability to move allies around defensively and out of the pummel zones.
This would be good for kiting. Everybody should look to move away during their own turns too, to profit from mantle of inspiration. Otherwise the enemies will still engage the one left behind (or the slowest pc) during their turns. It has good synergy though with potential AoE's that the warlock and the wizard might want to throw (ideally stuff that restrain or slow movement, or that deny enemies' turns).

On the other hand, we wont get much mileage out of the conjured animals if it's only the cleric/paladin staying up front. And it will make the lives of anyone wanting to use an AoE more difficult.

I like your suggestion better. It has more potential for synergy. It's a little more risky (what am I doing if there's nowhere to run; this is a new problem now, but I am guessing that it must be solvable), but if allies work with it (eg invest on ranged attacks and on means to get out of melee) and don't do something that sabotages it (eg cleric/paladin staying up front to tank), I am thinking that it would work better.

[dragoeniex]

This would be good for kiting. Everybody should look to move away during their own turns too, to profit from mantle of inspiration. Otherwise the enemies will still engage the one left behind (or the slowest pc) during their turns. It has good synergy though with potential AoE's that the warlock and the wizard might want to throw (ideally stuff that restrain or slow movement, or that deny enemies' turns).

On the other hand, we wont get much mileage out of the conjured animals if it's only the cleric/paladin staying up front. And it will make the lives of anyone wanting to use an AoE more difficult.

I like your suggestion better. It has more potential for synergy. It's a little more risky (what am I doing if there's nowhere to run; this is a new problem now, but I am guessing that it must be solvable), but if allies work with it (eg invest on ranged attacks and on means to get out of melee) and don't do something that sabotages it (eg cleric/paladin staying up front to tank), I am thinking that it would work better.

Those are all good consideration points! The ability to clear an area of allies before dropping an AoE would be spiffy indeed.

Probably even better with your point meaning enemies that use summoning or a lot of little allies will be more threatening and deserving of crowd control than usual. Hmm.

[OracularPoet]

I’d swap your Dex and Con, put racial +1s into each. That gets you 16 Dex, 17 Con and 20 Cha. Resilient (Con) whether at start or later to bring it to 18.

[djreynolds]

Valor bard and college of swords will both give medium armor and extra attack.

Take fey ancestry with high elf and grab a cantrip like BB or GFB, now you can attack twice or once with those cantrips

[Wildarm]

I'm not sure why the AC is so low (I've messaged the cleric to ask for example) but for HP, the DM allows for rolling, and most of the party did. And rolled badly. I'm taking the average which helps, and I have a high CON. Which really, I have a high everything with the most stat blessed rolls I think I've ever had: 18, 16, 15, 14, 14, 10. Putting the 18 to CHA bumps it to 20 off the bat. I put the 16 to DEX, the 15 (with +1 for a second 16) to CON, the 14's to INT and WIS, and 10 (+1 for 11) to STR. While it's not six 18's, it's the highest starting stats I can recall having, giving me 19 HP for level 2.

Oddly enough, I feel the high stats a blessing and curse, as I feel like I should be good at everything with these stats and jack of all trades. I should be the gish of all gish bards! I just don't know how to do that lol. Hexblade, college of glamor, lore, swords... all have their pro's and con's. I keep sitting down thinking 'this time I'll make a decision!' and just debating it nonstop it my head. I can't decide on a clear winner. I HATE that feeling, that I'm losing something important no matter which choice I make. Oy.

Those stats, a free feat and flanking could make an interesting heavy metal melee bard.

Order Domain Cleric 1/Valor Bard X
Str 18, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 18
PAM at level 1 (Use spear till you pick up Glaive proficiency at level 4)
GWM at level 5

Land GWM hits like a boss with flanking, solid attack bonus, combat inspiration. Bless you should your primary opener spell to boost party attacks and saves.

Only downside is extra attack only comes online at level 7. Take High Elf Variant to start with Booming Blade to make that period easier and give you a nasty opportunity attack via warcaster if you pick that up at level 9.

Order Domain makes you a pretty neat buff/attack bot. Bonus action Healing Word or Shield of Faith on an ally gives them an off turn attack. If they jump during their turn you can cast feather fall to give them an extra attack as a reaction(bit cheesy but hey, death from above!)

Could rework it with Fighter 1/Lore Bard X to make a pretty awesome sharpshooter archer as well.

[Chugger]

Feat choice is so hard for bard.

W/ med armor (if not going sword or valor), you can have ac 18 easily, which is not bad. But if you're not on the front line, is such high AC needed? It sure helps - things will jump you.

But you could take Inspiring Leader and give everyone temp hit points, and refresh each short rest.

Or you could take healer feat, which is a strangely good feat, especially in a desperate fight. Let's say two party members go down on one turn. You healing word the farther one, and feat heal the closer one you can reach - and bring two zero'd chars back to positive hp in one turn! It helps w/ out of combat healing too. Anyone you didn't heal in combat, heal them before short rest - they rest - and it refreshes so you can heal again. You can always zap someone after you've healed them for one hit point, if they go back to zero. I have used it in a fight where several times I got someone back to one, they attacked, they went down again, I got them to one, they stood up and hurt the monster again.... whack a mole city.

Or if you want to better concentrate on spells in fights, warcaster or resilient con.

Luck, Alert, Mobile and other feats have their uses.

Very hard choice.

[Ketiara]

Another fun way of mixing spellcaster with high AC is Arcane Cleric1/Lore bardX. That allows for you to wear shield and medium armor. And have Warcaster as your feat. Get The elf racial feat as halfelf. Move up shocking grasp with flank 3d20. Or dissonant whisper an enemy and then use your cantrips as AO reaction. And ofcourse you can heal or keep everyone within your Aura of vitality stolen from the paladin spell list... a bard in my group enjoys this very much.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

So as topic says, I'm making a new half-elf bard for a group on roll20. I applied with the bard concept without knowing the party, thinking a lore bard never hurts. Well, the party is level 2 and have a rogue/monk (going for shadow monk), a cleric/Paladin (combo I don't know much about?), an enchantment wizard, and a celestial warlock. It seems a fun group, though I'm not sure if lore bard is the best pick at this point. Like I'm pretty sure I have the most HP of the party and one of the better AC's, so I'm thinking college of swords might be the better option.

Normally I'd have time to think on it, but there are two homebrews rules in play. One, we get a free starting feat as the DM's too generous for his own good lol. So I need to pick a feat, and that's going to determine how I play the character. Second one, the DM allows flanking, with flanking giving advantage of all things. The college of glamor ability to let the whole party move could become very powerful with such a rule in play.


Anywho, the party makeup and rules have left me uncertain, and thought I'd ask for some ideas for spells, feats, subclass, etc. I like talking about the game and don't get a reason to do so very often, so if you have time I'll happily listen to ideas for feats, spells, subclass, whatever. It's for Tyranny of dragons if that matters, though I don't know the module yet so no spoilers please.

Thank you for your time!

Conjuring spells with flanking are going to rock!