[Ravnica for the Bold, 5e] Playing Selesnya campaign villain vs largely Orzhov party

[Zhentarim]

Ok, so I’m sorta making this game up as I go along, but my template for the BBEG I’m using is a religious zealot who wants to bring all of Ravnica, because there will only be peace when everybody is united. The BBEG is a loxodon and very stubborn, and will use coercive means to wipe out the other guilds because guilds besides Selesnya stand in the way of unity. I’m trying to ramp the threat up slowly and in a way that feels natural for the party. I’m thinking if Selesnya could even seem initially to be an ally to the party, that could work well.

The party is a bard from college of glamor (a salesman), a paladin (oath of conquest), a cleric (order domain), a dimir rogue (who is undercover as an orzhov euthanist), and a divination wizard (an advokist).

[HappyDaze]

Orzhov goes heavily into the dark side of capitalism (to a fantasy extreme) while Selesnya goes with a fantasy communism approach. Pretty easy to cast either as a bad guy but the alignment bit rubber stamps the latter as being good and the former as evil. Still, you can hype up your great tree spirit as the next Mao if you like and possibly even have Selesnya members trying to get out of hippie tree spirit land. If you opt to go this way, be wary of real world politics in your game, but if everyone is game for it, have fun.

[Zhentarim]

Orzhov goes heavily into the dark side of capitalism (to a fantasy extreme) while Selesnya goes with a fantasy communism approach. Pretty easy to cast either as a bad guy but the alignment bit rubber stamps the latter as being good and the former as evil. Still, you can hype up your great tree spirit as the next Mao if you like and possibly even have Selesnya members trying to get out of hippie tree spirit land. If you opt to go this way, be wary of real world politics in your game, but if everyone is game for it, have fun.

I’ll use that as an overarching theme, but I’m moreso concerned with introducing the villain. Right now, the kids playing these characters are just doing random side quests.

[HappyDaze]

Well, Selesnya is a cult, even if it is a generally benevolent one, so have the cult recruit someone that the PCs care about and see if the PCs can rescue them & deprogram them. Alternately, have someone the PCs are after for trying to skip out on a deal with the Orzhov join up with Selesnya as a way to protect themselves from the bad ol' Orzhovs. Bonus points if the one skipping out and hiding with the benevolent hippies is a monstrous (in behavior, doesn't matter what race they are) scumbag.

[Zhentarim]

Well, Selesnya is a cult, even if it is a generally benevolent one, so have the cult recruit someone that the PCs care about and see if the PCs can rescue them & deprogram them. Alternately, have someone the PCs are after for trying to skip out on a deal with the Orzhov join up with Selesnya as a way to protect themselves from the bad ol' Orzhovs. Bonus points if the one skipping out and hiding with the benevolent hippies is a monstrous (in behavior, doesn't matter what race they are) scumbag.

I like that angle. I’ll use it.

Having survived a cult that was eerily like the Selesnya, I enjoy the chance to potentially discredit similar groups with the children, but I don’t want to be heavy handed about it. I’m first and foremost running a game for the kids, but I’ve been so badly burned by one idealistic group after another in succession, I want to ensure I can perhaps have a helping hand in providing a wet blanket on some of the kids idealism so they don’t get hurt as badly as I’ve been hurt.

Really, I’ve been in 3 cult-like groups—I was born in a Selesnya-like one, I did a Gruul like one as a teenager after the Selesnya-like cult had trouble, then I spent some time in my early 20s in a Boros-like one. At least I can see a lot of similarities.

The closest thing to a cause I believe in now is one of promoting mutual self-interest.

A lot of these kids seemed to pick Orzhov because they want to be rich. I can respect that as I also care about building wealth, but my take on Orzhov is that its the best guild because it creates a stable society based on self-interest within the prescribed bounds of the social contract. Its funny my players and I would pick the same guild but for different reasons, but then again, they’re kids and will probably try on lots of different philosophies before they settle on something.

[AdAstra]

Under the framework of "cult=bad", I don't think that any of the guilds in Ravnica even qualify as neutral except for Gruul or Izzet. Orzhov keeps slaves, including those of the dead, through the classic scheme of ever-compounding debt. You have to be born within Orzhov to get into the higher echelons, and they abuse the letter of their contracts whenever possible, violating any degree of social trust that exists. Not to mention the actual protection rackets and explicit worship of wealth, structure, and power. They're basically a combination of the mafia, a cult, and the worst aspects of the Gilded Age, preying on people's self-interest and misfortunes for the benefit of its leaders', not meaningfully supporting it.

So basically, you've got the cult of militant possibly-mind-controlled hippies vs the cult/gang of fanatical loan sharks and debt-slavers. Just look at how the goals of the two groups would compete. Every person joining a Selesnyan commune is someone less vulnerable to the Orzhov's debt-slavery and protection rackets. Every person who joins Orzhov is another lost soul for Selesnya to "save". Both are highly organized and devout, but with wholly antithetical end-goals. Thus the answer is conflict.

[Gignere]

Ok, so I’m sorta making this game up as I go along, but my template for the BBEG I’m using is a religious zealot who wants to bring all of Ravnica, because there will only be peace when everybody is united. The BBEG is a loxodon and very stubborn, and will use coercive means to wipe out the other guilds because guilds besides Selesnya stand in the way of unity. I’m trying to ramp the threat up slowly and in a way that feels natural for the party. I’m thinking if Selesnya could even seem initially to be an ally to the party, that could work well.

The party is a bard from college of glamor (a salesman), a paladin (oath of conquest), a cleric (order domain), a dimir rogue (who is undercover as an orzhov euthanist), and a divination wizard (an advokist).

Isn’t this just the BBEG wanting to become the next guild pact? Basically something like this exist in Ravnica already it’s the guild pact. The guildpact forces all the guilds to behave so what your BBEG is trying to do is become the next living Guild pact.

[Sception]

Guildpact still allows individual thought and action. I imagine a Selesnya villain would be aiming for more of a planet-wide hive mind/universal consciousness type situation. Hijacking the guildpact would probably be part of the plan, though.