“Conjure Minor Elementals“ or “Conjure Elemental“ or "Conjure Animals"??

[Chrizzt]

Hello!

I'm playing a shadow sorcerer (soon attaining lvl 9), and my DM might let me pick one of those two cross-class spells, because they are thematically fitting with my char background (and my char happens to speak Primordial as well).

Which one would you pick?

As I see it, the CME spell is “safer“ because they don't turn on you if you loose concentration. But the CE spell lets you pick the element, which seems more useful for utility reasons (e.g. for calling an air elemental to hurry your sailing ship across).

The CME is 1 action casting time. CE is 1 Minute.

And on another note: do you see any unbalancing factors letting a sorcerer call in elementals? I'm all for balancing, but sometimes I think the sorcerers spell list is unnecessarily restricted.

Thank you for your inputs!

EDIT: Conjure Animals might also be an option, if I ask nicely. As my char has a vampire like vibe, summoning wolves and so on might be thematically also fitting. I understand, however, that Conjure Animals is more about summoning larger amounts of creatures. I'm afraid this would slow our combat down even more. Conjured Elementals also seem to be more useful in terms of utility, though the consensus seems to be, that Conjure Animals is the superior spell in terms of combat power.

At least I guess that even large sharks won't be able to pull a sailing ship when winds are low ; )

[MaxWilson]

Hello!

I'm playing a shadow sorcerer (soon attaining lvl 9), and my DM might let me pick one of those two cross-class spells, because they are thematically fitting with my char background (and my char happens to speak Primordial as well).

Which one would you pick?

I'd pick Conjure Elemental because it's beefier and more fun. Conjure Minor Elementals can be nice if you abuse certain combinations (Magma Mephits with Heat Metal against armor-wearing enemies), but Conjure Elemental is pretty good no matter which elemental you get (although if you can get a Salamander it's even better) and it also upcasts relatively well (CR 6 Invisible Stalker).


And on another note: do you see any unbalancing factors letting a sorcerer call in elementals? I'm all for balancing, but sometimes I think the sorcerers spell list is unnecessarily restricted.

I don't see any problems with this, no. The sorcerer list is indeed pretty restricted and it's nice that your DM is doing this.

[Chrizzt]

I'd pick Conjure Elemental because it's beefier and more fun. Conjure Minor Elementals can be nice if you abuse certain combinations (Magma Mephits with Heat Metal against armor-wearing enemies), but Conjure Elemental is pretty good no matter which elemental you get (although if you can get a Salamander it's even better) and it also upcasts relatively well (CR 6 Invisible Stalker).



I don't see any problems with this, no. The sorcerer list is indeed pretty restricted and it's nice that your DM is doing this.

Thank you for your input! What would you say to Conjure Animals? I edited my original post to include that as well. Thematically it might also be fitting, but I don't want to swarm our battlefield with even more combatants, and I guess for many tasks concerning utility an summoned elemental is more appropriate. I am also not (only) looking for battle prowess. A spell that is more flavorful to a book-learned, vampire-like shadow sorcerer might be more fitting than one that comes first in terms of raw power.

[MaxWilson]

Thank you for your input! What would you say to Conjure Animals? I edited my original post to include that as well. Thematically it might also be fitting, but I don't want to swarm our battlefield with even more combatants, and I guess for many tasks concerning utility an summoned elemental is more appropriate. I am also not (only) looking for battle prowess. A spell that is more flavorful to a book-learned, vampire-like shadow sorcerer might be more fitting than one that comes first in terms of raw power.

Conjure Animals is a very strong pick, especially for a Sorcerer who can use Flexible Casting to get lots of 5th level slots. Yes, conjuring 16 wolves is a strong play, as is e.g. two CR 2 Giant Constrictor Snakes, and unlike the elemental spells you can do it during combat with only one action. I do see potential balance issues with this one, as in it could change the whole feel of the game. I would recommend your DM not allow this option, so you won't be tempted by it. Take the elemental and enjoy it, or bargain for one of the Xanathar's demon summoning spells if you prefer that flavor, but leave Conjure Animals to the animal specialists (druid and ranger).

[col_impact]

Conjure Animals is by far the stronger pick. It is one action to cast and upcasts really well. You generally want to summon lots of animals and focus fire on single targets. So bring lots of dice. In addition to murderizing, conjure animals can also be used to fly people around, jet ski eveyone around on the back of dolphins, deliver stuff to party members (such as masticated goodberries into the mouths of unconscious allies), form meat walls, etc.

Conjure Minor Elementals and Conjure Elementals are both 1 minute to cast.

You might check with your DM about CMA since that spell is pretty powerful just to give it away without concern for class restrictions. Its one of the Druid's and Ranger's biggest bombs. You should probably only have access to it through normal means - ie dip 5 levels in Druid to get it.

[Corran]

but Conjure Elemental is pretty good no matter which elemental you get (although if you can get a Salamander it's even better)
Could you please elaborate on that? Looking at the salamander out of curiosity made me think of an idea (salamander and wall of fire), but this probably needs two casters (or high level play/scroll for planar binding to be worth it?), so I am guessing there is more that I don't see.

Edit: I am mostly trying to compare the salamander against an earth elemental, since they both don't have the restrain/grapple/prone immunities that we could probably try to ''exploit'' with the other types of elementals. Is the restraining attack worth all that amount of extra suffering the earth elemental can take?

[djreynolds]

Thank you for your input! What would you say to Conjure Animals? I edited my original post to include that as well. Thematically it might also be fitting, but I don't want to swarm our battlefield with even more combatants, and I guess for many tasks concerning utility an summoned elemental is more appropriate. I am also not (only) looking for battle prowess. A spell that is more flavorful to a book-learned, vampire-like shadow sorcerer might be more fitting than one that comes first in terms of raw power.

You have your answer, cool is the rule. Its thematic and fitting, wolves and swarms of bats and rats.... maybe at higher level a dire wolf

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Your DM is cool and sounds like he/she is rewarding you for having an interesting PC.

Realize your access to Magical Secrets is a big deal and all of the other players at the table deserve similar. If some of them are given things like Wave or Whelm or Black Razor it is to keep the balance.

[Chrizzt]

Yes, he is quite open to tweaking the rules, within reason. I'm still chosing the spell for one of my spells known, so its not exactly Magical Secrets, and it has to be argued for on a very individual basis. I know however that he also has an eye on keeping things balanced and even, and he knows I'm not trying to break anything. The other players occasionally get nice things as well, if fitting :)

Now, concerning the choice: It will almost certainly be Conjure Elemental. Being able to call in one (1) powerful creature is what suits my char best, and he already demonstrated skills in the elemental languages in the first adventure, so this connects in reasonably.

And in another party (I'm not part of) thete are already 3 druids he has to cope with.. and with their many summons.

So, only one creature he liked certainly most ^^

Thanks all for the participation!

[MaxWilson]

Could you please elaborate on that? Looking at the salamander out of curiosity made me think of an idea (salamander and wall of fire), but this probably needs two casters (or high level play/scroll for planar binding to be worth it?), so I am guessing there is more that I don't see.

Edit: I am mostly trying to compare the salamander against an earth elemental, since they both don't have the restrain/grapple/prone immunities that we could probably try to ''exploit'' with the other types of elementals. Is the restraining attack worth all that amount of extra suffering the earth elemental can take?

I'd just build a large bonfire (oil + Prestidigitation on a bunch of flammable material) instead of Wall of Fire, and ask the DM what you can do to maximize the chance of getting a salamander instead of a regular elemental. The DM might disallow it or might tell you that you can do special things like add special materials or speak in salamander language or something. If you do get a fire elemental, you can still do fun stuff like have it Disengage or Dash though a whole bunch of enemies to set them all on fire--Fire Elementals have fairly weak attacks but the setting-on-fire thing and high movement speed make up for it.

The restraining attack is great especially if the party has Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Masters who can benefit from the advantage. The Earth Elemental has some really nice scouting capabilities in a dungeon scenario and tremorsense can be useful with Darkness/Fog Cloud/Stinking Cloud/etc. if the DM rules that it counts as vision for purposes of advantage/disadvantage. Salamander and Earth Elemental both have advantages, but the Earth Elemental's extra HP aren't a deciding factor in my mind unless the party has no "tank" (melee-oriented PC) and no good healing spells. If you have no tank but also have Aura of Vitality or Healing Spirit, you can heal the Salamander and that plus the restraining attack (disadvantage to restrained enemy's attack, plus no movement and advantage on allied attacks) wind up making the Salamander tankier against small groups of enemies. And having missile weapons is nice.

All of the elementals have their uses. I encourage the OP to play around with them until you find some that work well for you.

[Segev]

Conjure elemental doesn't say it's a random elemental of the type. I suppose it could be DM's choice the same way it is for woodland creatures, but my reading of it would suggest it's the conjuror's choice. So you can get any elemental of the kind you've got material for up to the appropriate CR. Salamanders should be pretty easy.