3.5 mind mage

[jdizzlean]

so this is a dragon mag class, i forget which issue, and I'm on mobile and afb right now. but the more i think about it, the more i want to try it in our game the next time we're start over. race wise i was thinking athasian human, also from dragon. sources available are all first party and dragon of course. ebberron is frowned on mostly (dm's preference).

would start at lvl 1, rolled stats, we'd hit lock lvl 15-20 eventually. table tends to be low/mid op, so the less cheese the better.

does anyone have some ideas on less convoluted means of entry and/or progressions that would work? by that i mean as few dips and questionable raw/rai arguments as possible.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The obvious way to early-entry the mind mage class is via a 1 level dip in ardent with Practiced Manifester or Supernatural Transformation (Psionics). Then you only have to deal with the additional CLs and MLs lost from the class itself.

Beyond that, there's not much of a way to reduce the prereqs to anything less than they already are. I mean, I guess you could use magic items and other things that grant feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?206315-3-X-PF-Things-That-Grant-Feats) in conjunction with the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, but that seems a bit gratuitous.

[Ramza00]

Once again the best way to enter this prestige class like many Theurge classes is probably Improved Sigil Krau.

Wizard 1/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 2/Mind Mage 10/Cerebremancer +4
Thus total casting of 15 Wizard and 17 Psion, plus Mind Mage goodness or the alternative

Wizard 1/Ardent 2/Cerebremancer 2/Mind Mage 10/Cerebremancer +5
Wizard 16/Ardent effectively 20 with a 17 Base.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dragon 313, page 50.

Mind Mage requires 3rd level arcane spells, 2nd level powers, any two psi-spell feats from that same issue, and a special: receive training in mind magic (backstory fluff).
It skips advancing spellcasting at the 2nd and 4th level, and it skips advancing manifesting at the 1st and 3rd level.

I'll agree that an Illumian with Improved Sigil: Krau is the way to go. I'd make it a Sorcerer 1/ Ardent 2/ Cerebremancer 3/ Mind Mage 10/ Cerebremancer 4, if Krau won't benefit manifester level you'll need Practiced Manifester as well. Always use Substitute Powers (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) with Ardent. Get two flaws if possible for two extra feats, take Hidden Talent for Astral Construct or some other always-useful 1st level power. Your two psi-spell feats will depend on what you want to be doing, but Dual-Plane Summons looks pretty good if you want to go that route.

[Troacctid]

The obvious way to early-entry the mind mage class is via a 1 level dip in ardent with Practiced Manifester or Supernatural Transformation (Psionics). Then you only have to deal with the additional CLs and MLs lost from the class itself.

Beyond that, there's not much of a way to reduce the prereqs to anything less than they already are. I mean, I guess you could use magic items and other things that grant feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?206315-3-X-PF-Things-That-Grant-Feats) in conjunction with the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, but that seems a bit gratuitous.
You mean a 2-level dip? 1st level ardents can specifically only learn powers with a cost of 1 power point.

Supernatural Transformation doesn't improve your manifester level, either.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You mean a 2-level dip? 1st level ardents can specifically only learn powers with a cost of 1 power point.That, yes.


Supernatural Transformation doesn't improve your manifester level, either.Huh. I wonder where I got that from. No idea.

[Psyren]

Supernatural Transformation doesn't improve your manifester level, either.

Huh. I wonder where I got that from. No idea.

Keep in mind that I don't agree with Supernatural Psionics at all, but I believe the general rule is that the caster level of a supernatural ability is the user's hit dice.

[Troacctid]

Keep in mind that I don't agree with Supernatural Psionics at all, but I believe the general rule is that the caster level of a supernatural ability is the user's hit dice.
Yes, but CL ≠ ML.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Yes, but CL ≠ ML.That's why I typically mention the Magic mantle. In that case, CL does = ML.