Stronghold - in character game room?

[schreier]

Building a stronghold, and trying to figure out what a wizard would put in their "game room."
I've seen card games referenced (three-dragon ante), some people mentioned chess and go. Some even mentioned dragonchess, which looks interesting but the only article I found did not relate it to d&d, just Gary Gygax as the creator.

Is there anything like pool/billiards?

I was considering putting up something like a mirror of mental prowess as almost a "big-screen tv" to watch various goings on, but was very disappointed to realize that it had only clairvoyance and not clairaudience (you could probably add clairaudience I would assume?)

In Dragon 295, they also mentioned a wall of force aquarium, which could be pretty cool. What would be interesting fish/animals for it?

[Berenger]

In Dragon 295, they also mentioned a wall of force aquarium, which could be pretty cool. What would be interesting fish/animals for it?

Is there a way to shrink people to fine size permanently?

Because an "ant farm" of teeny-weeny authentic dwarves behind walls of force sounds pretty fun. You could flood them with a cup of water or sic a spider on them to keep things interesting every once in a while. Or maybe link them up with expansion packs, like a colony of itsy-bitsy drow or something. Entertaining and educational!

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Is there a way to shrink people to fine size permanently?

Because an "ant farm" of teeny-weeny authentic dwarves behind walls of force sounds pretty fun. You could flood them with a cup of water or sic a spider on them to keep things interesting every once in a while. Or maybe link them up with expansion packs, like a colony of itsy-bitsy drow or something. Entertaining and educational!

This is just slavery with extra steps.


And I love it

[Zaq]

Building a stronghold, and trying to figure out what a wizard would put in their "game room."
I've seen card games referenced (three-dragon ante), some people mentioned chess and go. Some even mentioned dragonchess, which looks interesting but the only article I found did not relate it to d&d, just Gary Gygax as the creator.

Is there anything like pool/billiards?

I was considering putting up something like a mirror of mental prowess as almost a "big-screen tv" to watch various goings on, but was very disappointed to realize that it had only clairvoyance and not clairaudience (you could probably add clairaudience I would assume?)

In Dragon 295, they also mentioned a wall of force aquarium, which could be pretty cool. What would be interesting fish/animals for it?

I know there are various games of chance mentioned a few places. From memory, probably Cityscape and/or Races of Destiny?

Point is, games exist in-universe. (Why wouldn’t they, right?) And from a practical standpoint, it makes sense for us, the human beings actually playing D&D / writing D&D lore, to stick in things that sync up with real-world games (e.g., chess, card games played with the familiar modern 52-card deck, etc.) rather than making up new games out of whole cloth because ain’t nobody got time for that.

Making up new games is a hell of a lot of work. That’s why being a game developer is a job. To me, the cost/benefit ratio of inventing enough lore to intelligibly describe a game that no one has played in reality just doesn’t make the practice seem worthwhile. (Godspeed if that’s your thing, but don’t feel like it “should” be your thing if it isn’t naturally.)

My ultimate point here is that you shouldn’t feel bad sticking in backgammon and go and chess and whist and whatever other games you like. Won’t break anything, and it’s a zillion times easier than making up dragonbackgammon and dungeongo and beholderchess and wizardwhist.

[HouseRules]

In a card room, someone could troll the card room with a deck of many things.

[rel]

Theyplay Memos and Managers, a storytelling game where the players take the roles of office workers trying to slack off in a crazy futuristic fantasy world.

[Fizban]

Building a stronghold, and trying to figure out what a wizard would put in their "game room."
I've seen card games referenced (three-dragon ante), some people mentioned chess and go. Some even mentioned dragonchess, which looks interesting but the only article I found did not relate it to d&d, just Gary Gygax as the creator.

Is there anything like pool/billiards?
Is there? Seriously, the games that exist in-universe are whatever games you want. Sometimes a setting book, or more often a specific module, will mention or make up a game- usually with some attendant mechanics. But it's not a major thing in the generic 1st party books. Presumably there will be a common set of dice and some number of games, a common type of deck and a number of games, and some number of simple board games (simple to craft, and simple enough to memorize). These will vary by region.

As for pool or billiards, wikipedia seems to indicate some versions have been around since the 1700's. The man problem with putting that into a faux medieval setting is that we would expect the balls to be uniform and medieval tech will have issues making uniform spheres. But DnD tech might be able to do it.

For more advanced games, well wizards are nerds, and unlike modern nerds who need to go through a production company to get a fancy board game made, they can just cast Fabricate (unless you use the strict reading). If your setting includes congregations of magical nerds, they will have more complicated games, especially given the nature of their powers (a wizard's first instinct if designing a wargame will involve the spells per day table). Without the stability and distance of a lot of modern day society however, I would not expect performative or role-playing games to spread beyond the community of magically distanced/self-sufficient/sufficiently powerful as to have no worries, and actual perfomers. The nobility will adopt games it finds useful, but these will have at least the veneer of teaching immediate practical skills or demonstrating superiority. Again, back to simplicity, the "werewolf" traitor hunting game might be played at a gathering, or mystery dinner sorts of things, but LARPing and tabletop I'd think not.


I was considering putting up something like a mirror of mental prowess as almost a "big-screen tv" to watch various goings on, but was very disappointed to realize that it had only clairvoyance and not clairaudience (you could probably add clairaudience I would assume?)

Pretty hugely overkill if all you want is to look at things, and with a limited range on viewing. Aspect Mirrors from Complete Scoundrel are probably more what you're looking for, but still rely on the idea that there's "something to watch." You'd have a number of endpoint mirrors set up at theaters, arenas, etc, and then be able to watch their shows at the appropriate times (paying appropriate fees to the troupe of course, likely chump change to you). The Private Sanctum effect a big spending will have on their stronghold can be positioned so that the mirror is on the outside, making it impossible for viewers at the endpoint (who would see into your room) to see due to the effect. Viewing-only portals are also a thing that exists, but are far more expensive and carry the risks of still being a type of portal (and thus susceptible to portal affecting spells)

Permanent Image can be moved by the original caster and is quite cheap, useful for all sorts of things, but only one image per casting. Said images could be moved into a closet for storage when not in use. If Ghost Sound is allowed to duplicate music (personally I'd put heavy limits on this), then Permanent Ghost Sounds can provide music, and placing their origin points within reach can allow them to be muted with a cover.

[schreier]

I wasn't trying to invent games with rules, more come up with sets/boards/ tables to have in a game room. Basically if there were any canon versions in established d&d universes.

No one has really pointed to examples so it seems like probably not.

Thank you all!

[RatElemental]

Can't forget a deck of many things. I hear those are the go to for when a wizard wants to play poker.


Is there a way to shrink people to fine size permanently?

Because an "ant farm" of teeny-weeny authentic dwarves behind walls of force sounds pretty fun. You could flood them with a cup of water or sic a spider on them to keep things interesting every once in a while. Or maybe link them up with expansion packs, like a colony of itsy-bitsy drow or something. Entertaining and educational!

Not sure about permanently, but there's an item called pixie dust that shrinks someone to tiny and charms them for 9 hours. Add reduce person on top of that and they'd be at diminutive. Not fine, but it works on any sized creature. I'd actually be very curious about ways to get a person to fine size in general though, if anyone else has any ideas.

[Fizban]

I wasn't trying to invent games with rules, more come up with sets/boards/ tables to have in a game room. Basically if there were any canon versions in established d&d universes.

No one has really pointed to examples so it seems like probably not.
FRCS lists Chess, Draughts, and Old Men's Bones, as well as marbles. AaEG has a Portable Game Bord item listing "chess, checkers, backgammon, go, and the like." Generally you just check setting books for the mundane equipment section and see if they've mentioned any regional game sets. I don't know if Eberron has any (I doubt it), but stuff like Iron Kingdoms or Kingdoms of Kalamar probably do.

[schreier]

FRCS lists Chess, Draughts, and Old Men's Bones, as well as marbles. AaEG has a Portable Game Bord item listing "chess, checkers, backgammon, go, and the like." Generally you just check setting books for the mundane equipment section and see if they've mentioned any regional game sets. I don't know if Eberron has any (I doubt it), but stuff like Iron Kingdoms or Kingdoms of Kalamar probably do.

Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for ... nice they had a little more detail (old men's bones is like pick up sticks, draughts is checkers, and even a little detail about the Talis decks.

I looked through Eberron campaign setting - and you were right, nothing. I guess they're no fun there. Same with the Dragonlance campaign setting book.

[Gauntlet]

Eberron has a chess-like board game called Conqueror. The wiki says it's detailed in Five Nations - it's mostly popular in Karrnath.

[schreier]

Awesome - thank you! It doesn't have much detail - just says (Under "FIVE THINGS EVERY KARRN KNOWS") 1. How to play Conqueror. This chesslike board game reputedly invented by Karrn the Conqueror is enjoyed across Khorvaire. But in Karrnath, it’s the national pastime and a popular way to spend long, wintry nights.

Explorer's Handbook actually has rules for roleplaying it:
Board games such as Conqueror are popular across Khorvaire; only gambling games (cards and dice) are more broadly familiar to citizens of every nation. Conqueror is one of the oldest boardgames, dating back 3,000 years to the time of Karrn the Conqueror, who reputedly used it to test his subordinates’ strategic thinking. To play the game, the PC will need to make an opposed Knowledge (history) check against the Captain. Characters with 5 ranks in Bluff or 5 ranks in Sense Motive get a +2 bonus on Knowledge (history) checks for this purpose. Characters with 5 ranks in both skills get a +4 bonus. If characters want to play Conqueror but don’t have ranks in Knowledge (history), the Captain will briefly explain the rules of the game, allowing a PC to make a Knowledge (history) check untrained as an exception to the Knowledge rules.

On an individual's campaign page, they went into more detail - really curious where they got it (or if they just made it up):
https://eberron4theditionbymarcin.obsidianportal.com/wiki_pages/sports-and-games
This board game was allegedly created by Karrn the Conqueror to help train his generals and weed out those without a strategic mind. The board is 10×10 squares, with a variety of units lining either end of the board. The front line includes four pikers in the middle, two swordsmen to both sides of the pikers, and a single archer on both of the ends. Behind them the back lines start at the outside with two siege weapons, then four cavalry within that, two wizards within that, and two winged cavalry within that. The last piece is the “Conqueror,” which can be placed on the board whenever the player chooses, but it must be within the first three lines in a free space.

For now, here is a description of the game room shelving:
Below the windows on the northern wall are displayed games collected from across the planes on a series of shelves. Lacquered hardwood trays lined in velvet hold elaborate chess pieces carved from ebony and ivory representing famous figures from Faerunian history. Next to that are Conqueror pieces from Eberron sculpted from gold and plantinum. The top shelf also holds four velvet-lined steel cups filled with crystal pieces ("stones") made from lapis lazulia, moonstone, onyx, and aquamarine, two elegantly carved boxes holding decks of Talis and Three-Dragon ante cards, and a tray with chips of various denominations to be used as needed. The lower shelf holds the boards necessary for the games: an 8 x 8 black onyx and white ivory board for chess, a similar 10 x 10 board for Conqueror, and a black marble board with an inlaid platinum grid for games of Wei-Chi.


I had included draughts/checkers, but the wikipedia entry indicates that at least the 8x8 version of draughts has been weakly solved - which means: "A solved game is a game whose outcome (win, lose or draw) can be correctly predicted from any position, assuming that both players play perfectly. This concept is usually applied to abstract strategy games, and especially to games with full information and no element of chance; solving such a game may use combinatorial game theory and/or computer assistance."

That seems like a game that is too simple for a Intelligence 25+ wizard.

[schreier]

I just found the Dragonlance / Krynn version of chess - "khas." This is detailed in the AD&D sourcebook More Leaves from the Inn of the Last Home.

It has a hexagonal board with three alternating colors (generally believed to be White / Red or Gray / and Black (the colors of good, neutral, and evil).

It has 32 pieces, 16 for each side, and you play from opposing corners. There is potentially a "legendary 33rd piece" modeled after a general from history.

There seem to be direct corollaries of pieces:
Kings become Relics - the prize of the battle. The game ends when the relic is captured.
Queens become Guardians. They are traditionally the agents of the Gods
Rooks become Fortresses - the strongholds.
Knights become Wyrms - great dragons
Bishops become Champions
Pawns become armies

pieces are armored on certain sides (they have facings) -- for example, Guardians/Queens can only be captured with side attacks.

Pretty cool to see rules that are that detailed. (pg 163-169 if you are looking). pg 168 lists the pieces, which is really neat - they have 5 versions - the "name", the war of the lance version, the war of huma version, the war of starfall, and the sylized element version. I will put the war of the lance version below:



Chess/Khas
Good
Evil


King/Relic
Dragonlance
Foundation Stone


Queen/Guardians
Paladine
Takhisis


Bishop/Champion
Raistlin & Caramon
Verminary & Ember


Bishop/Champion
Goldmoon & Riverwind
Ariakas & Firestorm


Knight/Wyrm
Laurana & Cymbol
Kitiara & Skie


Knight/Wyrm
Sturm & Gilt
Lord Soth & Doom


Rook/Fortress
Tika at Wayreth
Sivak at Flying Citadel


Rook/Fortress
Tanis at High Clerist
Aurak at Dargaard Keep


Pawn/Army
Flint (dwarf)
Toede (hobgoblin)


Pawn/Army
Tasslehoff (kender)
Galldrake (draconian)


Pawn/Army
Arman Kharas (dwarf)
Realgar (dark dwarf)


Pawn/Army
Kornin Thistleknot (kender)
Grimcairn (draconian)


Pawn/Army
Bupu (gully dwarf)
Rance (dark dwarf)


Pawn/Army
Trapsinger (kender)
Asptung (draconian)


Pawn/Army
Hornfell/Badger (dwarf)
Groag (hobgoblin)


Pawn/Army
Taywin (kender)
Lorac Caladon


33rd piece/Shield
War Machine
N/A

[stack]

Hnefatafl (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2932/hnefatafl). Or Thud.

[Erik the Green]

Well, this is a bit historical and recondite, but many moons ago during the AD&D era there was a Dragon Magazine comic called "Wormy" and the titular dragon was a wargamer (within the terms of D&D fantasy reality). In the issues I actually read we never saw a live game, but his set-up was basically a scale-sized fantasy fortress about comparable in elaborateness to a mundane model train fanatic's railroad that fills their entire basement. The pieces or units were going to be, IIRC, "minikins" or really tiny action figure sized trolls with the advantage of a better brain to body size ratio, and better manners, as well as regeneration (of course). The prospective participants were apparently all paid mercenaries, even treated it like a sport, and flame weapons were right out, so the whole business would have been more or less ethically sound. You could postulate that such a troll species exists in your game world but isn't usually mentioned much because they don't generally bother anybody...or an epic wizard could modify Origin of the Species to make some living game pieces, if you are not a nice wizard and don't care about the whole slavery issue.
Just my 2 cents-E