Weaponizing frequent dying?

[Elvensilver]

Hello, I play a bard who's unlucky enough to die about every day.

The problem:He has decent enough saves, hitpoints and armour, but my dice just fall badly and my DM rolls ridiculously well. As we often fight against recurring enemys, they have quickly decided to always attack the bard first, to cripple the party.
Luckily we are now lvl 10, which allows the cleric9/paladin1 to scribe Breath of Live Scrolls, that my bard wears on his torso to make the resurrections quicker.

The real question: is there any possibility to use dying for the party's advantage? Any items, feats or spells that either have a on-dying effect, or allow the freshly deceased to participate somewhat?
As a bard/oracle1 all my abilities are charisma based, which would make transition into a ghost quite advantagous. But how does ghostifying work? Is there any special training (like having died 5+ times beforehead :smallwink:) that makes it more likely? Can a ghost decide to just pass on after a single fight? How much time has to pass after passing to become a ghost?

Party's composition:
- A bard9/oracle1 who is pretty standard, has a lot of daily spells and two very nifty instruments and maxed out diplomacy+sense motive+fly+accrobatics-skills.
- A cleric9/paladin1 with a really smashing arsenal of two-handed weapons, divine strength, lots of muscle and a cohort:
- a ~lvl7 archon who is kind of useless in fights and only heals.

[Iku Rex]

is there any possibility to use dying for the party's advantage?

Cover?

https://abload.de/img/qthcagr0yju8.png

You need to bring in a new character each time though, rather than getting resurrected. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEE648Q_F6A

[Selion]

Hello, I play a bard who's unlucky enough to die about every day.

The problem:He has decent enough saves, hitpoints and armour, but my dice just fall badly and my DM rolls ridiculously well. As we often fight against recurring enemys, they have quickly decided to always attack the bard first, to cripple the party.
Luckily we are now lvl 10, which allows the cleric9/paladin1 to scribe Breath of Live Scrolls, that my bard wears on his torso to make the resurrections quicker.

The real question: is there any possibility to use dying for the party's advantage? Any items, feats or spells that either have a on-dying effect, or allow the freshly deceased to participate somewhat?
As a bard/oracle1 all my abilities are charisma based, which would make transition into a ghost quite advantagous. But how does ghostifying work? Is there any special training (like having died 5+ times beforehead :smallwink:) that makes it more likely? Can a ghost decide to just pass on after a single fight? How much time has to pass after passing to become a ghost?

Party's composition:
- A bard9/oracle1 who is pretty standard, has a lot of daily spells and two very nifty instruments and maxed out diplomacy+sense motive+fly+accrobatics-skills.
- A cleric9/paladin1 with a really smashing arsenal of two-handed weapons, divine strength, lots of muscle and a cohort:
- a ~lvl7 archon who is kind of useless in fights and only heals.

Next time someone dies let them switch to this character:

-Skald, rage power: linnorm death curses: Tor, Cairn, Tarn
-Summon monster (they don't have to be strong, if they die under these rage effects they enable the linnorm curses )
-determination armor (or any effect similar to Breath of life, like channel feats that replicate Breath of Life)
-Happy Dying

[legomaster00156]

His this bard considered that maybe adventuring isn't his best career choice? :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Why are you a support build in a party of two? With no one else on the field (I'm assuming, as you said, that the archon isn't doing much) you should expect that you'll be on the front lines quite a bit. Bards are intended to be the "5th man" i.e. a force multiplier for a full-size party of 4+, not direct contributors themselves. They can fill the frontline role but you have to build them for that, e.g. Dervish Dancer/Dawnflower Dervish or Arcane Duelist.

[Elvensilver]

His this bard considered that maybe adventuring isn't his best career choice? :smalltongue:


Why are you a support build in a party of two?

Well, I was young and inexperienced when I decided to build a bard for a family game some four years ago. It was my first character to be played in multiple sessions, and I thought being able to do a lot of things would be all well and good in a small party. Now at level 10 it's kind of late to retire a tested and well loved character with agencies and motivations in our somewhat weird game.
Instead of doing that, I would like to capitalize his best second best skill: dying.

[King of Nowhere]

I'm not aware of any direct mechanical resources, but how does the afterlife work in your campaign? maybe you can do some reconnaissance there.

You can also weaponize being the target: build up your defences and protect your party by being targeted first.
Though I agree, two people is not a real party, and a bard doesn't fit there.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Illusions of yourself, to draw fire, combined with disguise self. Should buy you a couple of rounds while they kill 'you'.

[Psyren]

Well, I was young and inexperienced when I decided to build a bard for a family game some four years ago. It was my first character to be played in multiple sessions, and I thought being able to do a lot of things would be all well and good in a small party. Now at level 10 it's kind of late to retire a tested and well loved character with agencies and motivations in our somewhat weird game.
Instead of doing that, I would like to capitalize his best second best skill: dying.

There is a third option - Retraining (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/retraining/), specifically changing over to a more tanky build (archetype/feats/spells) that won't have to somehow turn repeatedly dying into a positive. In-universe it sounds like your character has plenty of reasons to want to look into this, having brushed with death repeatedly.

Alternatively, talk to your GM - the game really isn't designed for a party of two. I'd strongly consider a gestalt here, and convincing your GM of the same. You won't have to make many changes to the bard side of your build that way, rather you can simply add a tankier second class like Oracle.

If you don't want to make any build changes at all, The other tactic is to be sneakier as psyco mentioned - using illusions, summons and other means to divert fire. With such a small group though this is not likely to work particularly often.

[Thunder999]

If you're ok with a new character every time then this is your chance to play with the death curses from the Book of Vile Darkness, which are extra powerful curses that any dieing character can invoke (not necessarily against their killer, though that's certainly common), they'll have a way to undo them, but the only limit is that it's doable within a year, so just make it something that actually takes a year. Oh and the cost is that you can't be resurrected, hence the requirement of new characters.

[Vaern]

There's a spell called Death Throes that deals a decent amount of untyped damage to a 30-foot radius upon your death, no saving throw, no spell resistance. You could have an item enchanted with it.

Make it a use-activated item for spell level * CL * 2000, having the spell effect activated upon your death while you are wearing the item. Make it a charged item for half the unlimited-use cost (*1000), and have it crafted with 1 charge (or consuming 50 charges per activation of the effect) to reduce that cost to 1/50 that cost (*20). The explosion destroys your body and I would assume that it's also meant to wipe out your equipment with it... I seriously doubt you're going to be allowed to reclaim the item and get a second use out of it even if you're resurrected afterward, so anything more than that one charge is
going to be a waste of gold.

The base cost for this item is now 5*9*20, or 900 GP for a 30-foot radius explosion of 9d8 damage on death

Now that we've driven the price straight into the ground, you can have the spell maximized, bumping it up to an 8th level spell, and have it crafted at CL 20 for a grand total of 3200 GP. You now explode for a flat 160 damage to anyone within 30 feet upon your death. For only 400 GP more, you can also widen the spell to increase that radius to 60 feet.
For roughly double the cost you can also add a single charge of a maximized Disintegrate effect. The effect will take a full round to charge up and counts as a coup de grace against you so long as you willingly forego your saving throw, critically hitting you for 480 damage which will very likely kill you immediately. The item hisses sharply as it charges up, and triggers the Death Throes effect immediately if it kills you. (Command word activation, CL 20, 9th level spell, 1 charge, +3240 GP; or, +2430 GP if you consider it a "related effect"; fortitude save against Disintegrate, if you change your mind, is DC 20).

I call it the Cloak of the Creeper.

[Telonius]

I homebrewed a template (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?215291-Help-me-not-be-a-killer-DM) for a similar situation several years back. Maybe run it by your DM?

[Particle_Man]

Book of Exalted deeds has a Risen Martyr prestige class. Other than that, maybe role play talking (briefly!) to someone in the afterlife that could give valuable info?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

If your game allows 3.5 stuff, it may be worth just sinking 3 levels into the Ghost savage progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a).

Most of the awesome stuff of being a ghost, including incorporeality, increased Cha, a cool ghost power, and the ability to restore yourself to unlife after destruction.

[Elvensilver]

Alternatively, talk to your GM - the game really isn't designed for a party of two. I'd strongly consider a gestalt here, and convincing your GM of the same. You won't have to make many changes to the bard side of your build that way, rather you can simply add a tankier second class like Oracle.

Looked into it, there are a few dangerous things to do with high charisma. Especially summoner would add a few well needed bodies to encourage. I'll get out the chips to bribe him.:smalltongue:


There's a spell called Death Throes that deals a decent amount of untyped damage to a 30-foot radius upon your death, no saving throw, no spell resistance. You could have an item enchanted with it.
[...]
I call it the Cloak of the Creeper.
That'd be a good investment. I'd try to make it cold or sonic damage though, something that isn't so harmfull to a fresh corpse.


Book of Exalted deeds has a Risen Martyr prestige class. Other than that, maybe role play talking (briefly!) to someone in the afterlife that could give valuable info?
Whoa. The celestial body is sweet. All other class features are kinda meh, since I have a cleric to do that.

From the suggestions Curse of Linnorm seems really promising. I'll try to refluff it as a masterpiece to learn that.

[Selion]

Whoa. The celestial body is sweet. All other class features are kinda meh, since I have a cleric to do that.

From the suggestions Curse of Linnorm seems really promising. I'll try to refluff it as a masterpiece to learn that.

If you don't want to change class there's another option, it's less efficient, but its 100% by the rules.
Buy a Poet's Cloak (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cloak-poet-s/) attuned to a Linnorm death curse.
Unfortunately you are restricted to 4th level curses, with these you could prevent healing Tarn (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo-rage-powers/linnorm-death-curse-tarn-su) , or you can apply a vulnerability to a specific element Crag (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo-rage-powers/linnorm-death-curse-crag-su-1), you have a 9th level cleric in your group, vulnerability to fire and Flame Strike could make a nice combo.
If you want to keep your usual bardic performance, the spells "shadowbard" and "virtuoso performance "make you mantain two performances at the same time.
If your master is nice he could design an improved version of this magic item which grants higher level curses.
Remember you can use summons to proc the death curse effect, you don't have to die every single battle :P