The Menophyrus Academy

[Grognerd]

So I've been kicking around the idea and implementation of 5e zero-level adventuring for some time. I decided to start with Wizards since, ironically, in many ways it was the easiest class for me to conceptualize as zero-level.

I did this just for my own entertainment, and don't know that it will ever even be played with, but thought I'd share it here in case anyone was interested. Please feel free to give me any feedback, brutal or gracious.

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BJXGZC7M5H

EDIT: Changed it to a hyperlink.

[WadeWay33]

...I actually like this a lot more than I thought I would. I’m on mobile right now so I’ll explain more in another post

[Grognerd]

...I actually like this a lot more than I thought I would. I’m on mobile right now so I’ll explain more in another post

Thank you, Wade. I look forward to hearing more!

[Damon_Tor]

It's pretty good.

I disagree with prestidigitation being taught to all students as a matter of course. Not all wizards know prestidigitation, and not all wizards are going to be good at transmutation. If their talents skew toward, say, illusions, why wouldn't they learn minor illusion first?

I also don't see the reason for removing their background proficiencies. Why would a street urchin not develop his pickpocket proficiency until after he'd been at wizard school for a while? And setting their proficiency modifier to +0 and +1 also doesn't make sense for the same reasons. Simply make it clear that they don't get to apply their proficiency to their spellcasting yet.

[Sparky McDibben]

I really like this. Let me know when you have a fighter one up, please! I would maybe add the option to "rebuild" the character at level one, allowing the student to retrain prestidigitation, etc.

[Grognerd]

Damon,

Thank for the feedback. Just so you know why I made some of the choices I made...


I disagree with prestidigitation being taught to all students as a matter of course. Not all wizards know prestidigitation, and not all wizards are going to be good at transmutation. If their talents skew toward, say, illusions, why wouldn't they learn minor illusion first?

This is definitely some design bias on my part, but I would like to think (or at least hope!) it is not entirely unreasonable bias. You are correct that not all wizards know Prestidigitation, but I think they all should. I don't mandate it for PCs, but I always include it for any arcane character I make.

I hate that Prestidigitation was assigned a school. I understand why they did it, but I really wish it was an All spell. Looking at its effects, I think it is easy to argue that in addition to any transmutation properties, the cantrip has elements of abjuration and evocation (igniting/dowsing flames), illusion (sensory effects and magic symbols/colors), conjuration (trinket creation), and even possible necromancy (manipulating non-living, organic items). So to me, Prestidigitation really is a great summary of the many schools of magic that fits a nice role in the concept of things.

The other reason I picked Prestidigitation as a required first cantrip, is because it is just so versatile that in a group with four Novices, they can all have the same cantrip and yet all use it in completely different ways depending on the player's creativity. Of course, they could do so with each one having different cantrips, but I like the idea of all of the students having (at that stage) the same tool, but figuring out unique ways to use it.

Anyway, that is why I assigned it as a fixed cantrip in my "curriculum". That said, it could easily be changed to "any one wizard cantrip" without a problem, I agree.


I also don't see the reason for removing their background proficiencies. Why would a street urchin not develop his pickpocket proficiency until after he'd been at wizard school for a while? And setting their proficiency modifier to +0 and +1 also doesn't make sense for the same reasons. Simply make it clear that they don't get to apply their proficiency to their spellcasting yet.

Ok, this is a little more involved. First: my reasoning for the lower Proficiency ratings. The idea in my mind was that the students would begin in a state of immaturity (whatever that might mean). Since an adult or mature individual who would theoretically have had much longer to practice a given skill begins at 1st level with Proficiency +2, it didn't make sense to me that an immature character should have that same access to ability. That is also the justification for the reduced Attribute Points and the disadvantage on non-proficient skills: there needed to be a reflection of their immaturity and a benefit for having a skill at Proficiency +0.

With that in mind, I can go back to your question about removing their background proficiencies. Since these are immature characters, the idea isn't that they have "completed" their background before becoming zero-level characters, but rather that their background development is concurrent with their zero-level development. So to use your urchin example, the student may be at school beginning their zero-level track, but on "summer break" they inevitably find themselves waifs on the street, finding ways to get by until they can return to school. Think of Harry Potter having to go and endure his family's abuse between years at Hogwarts; that sort of thing. That is why they are "learning" background skills that may not fit the Academy concurrent to their advancement through the Grades of their zero-level personas.

Obviously, this may not be ideal either. My original idea - and one that I'll likely revisit as well, to compare and see which one I like best - was to have the characters almost fully matured, with complete Backgrounds and their attendant proficiencies and Features, and have them run through an adventure a la N4 Treasure Hunt to obtain their Class.

My second idea was to focus on this specific Academy and say that all students had to have the Sage (Wizard's Apprentice) Background. But that would have been boring!

How to integrate/grow their background as zero-level characters is definitely something that I am open to reconsidering. That's one of the reasons I shared this out. But I did at least want to make sure that the original intention was out there so my draft wouldn't seem completely arbitrary.

[Grognerd]

I really like this. Let me know when you have a fighter one up, please! I would maybe add the option to "rebuild" the character at level one, allowing the student to retrain prestidigitation, etc.

Thank you! I was actually thinking about trying my hand at Fighters next! Now that I'm being encouraged, I'll have to follow through and see what I can build!

Allowing retraining at Level 1 is a good middle ground between what I was doing and what Damon suggests, IMHO...

[snickersnax]

I was thinking about something like this too, but I was even more restrictive in terms of cantrip selection. In my version the wizard-in-training needs to:

1) get proficiency in spell attacks
2) get proficiency in Spell DCs (saves)
3) figure out how to concentrate on a spell
4) begin to learn how to manipulate spells of his chosen school.

For all of its versatility, prestidigitation can only help with #4.

[Sparky McDibben]

I think that's a great way to look at it. Having non-damaging cantrips for junior wizards is a good idea, but not everyone wants to start their character at level 1 with prestidigitation. Since wizards can't really unlearn cantrips, this is a necessary escape valve.

But, where this avenue really shines for the DM is by hooking in new and exciting ways to ground the character's backstory! If you want your apprentice to accidentally summon an elder demon and let it loose on the world, this is your opportunity to do that - and to play through trying to deal with the aftermath. I always find backstory is fun for one player, and one player only. But if you can bring that into the main storyline, now all your party members are just as invested in tracking down Naiuh'Grazz'tuthorp, Lord of the Demonic Pumpkin Spice Latte!

If you can put the fighter's academy next to the Menophyrus Academy, you've got yourself the makings of a pretty solid starting location, too! I was actually thinking of pitching a fighter-focused campaign, zooming in on the battles between adherents of different schools of fighting. Not sure if I want to go Italian Renaissance or Sengoku Jidai yet, but your ideas would make the training phase of that campaign pretty meaningful, so thanks!

Keep it up!

[WadeWay33]

I think that's a great way to look at it. Having non-damaging cantrips for junior wizards is a good idea, but not everyone wants to start their character at level 1 with prestidigitation. Since wizards can't really unlearn cantrips, this is a necessary escape valve.

But, where this avenue really shines for the DM is by hooking in new and exciting ways to ground the character's backstory! If you want your apprentice to accidentally summon an elder demon and let it loose on the world, this is your opportunity to do that - and to play through trying to deal with the aftermath. I always find backstory is fun for one player, and one player only. But if you can bring that into the main storyline, now all your party members are just as invested in tracking down Naiuh'Grazz'tuthorp, Lord of the Demonic Pumpkin Spice Latte!


This and more. I feel as if the backgrounds should remain the same as you wrote them. They work really well. I do think they should be able to choose their first none damaging cantrip, because they can't swap. Otherwise, I really really like this. I might use it for a one-shot or two. Great work :smallsmile:!

[Jaryn]

I like this a lot!

I must admit, I am also a fan of Prestidigitation and tend to try and work it into all my arcane spellcasters. Retraining upon graduation seems a sensible compromise for those who don't want to start with it though.

[Damon_Tor]

I would be interested to learn how students who come to the academy already knowing some magic are handled: high elves and magic initiate vhumans for example. Do they get fast-tracked?

[Sparky McDibben]

I would be interested to learn how students who come to the academy already knowing some magic are handled: high elves and magic initiate vhumans for example. Do they get fast-tracked?

They got home-schooled and now the instructors have to spend time breaking down bad habits they learned from their parents. :) I'd let them keep the cantrip and flavor it as a cultural legacy, for example.

[Grognerd]

I would be interested to learn how students who come to the academy already knowing some magic are handled: high elves and magic initiate vhumans for example. Do they get fast-tracked?


They got home-schooled and now the instructors have to spend time breaking down bad habits they learned from their parents. :) I'd let them keep the cantrip and flavor it as a cultural legacy, for example.

Haha! Well, since I homeschool my kids, I wasn't exactly going to say it that way, but... yes, somewhat!

I figure that while they may have received some training as they developed their racial cantrip, their ability is largely something inherent to them. They can do it, and they may have some idea of the how and why of it, but it's not fully understood. So they would have their racial ability, but they would still have to progress through the curriculum as normal to develop their understanding of it. Think of it like the kid who has great athletic potential, but they don't necessarily consciously understand why what they do works. The curriculum provides that knowledge to the instinct the characters have like a coach provides understanding and improvement to a natural athlete. "Great kid, you can hit the ball, but you also need to know how to catch!"

It is an interesting question though, because it also parallels the idea of how the academy could bring in "guest speakers" of completely different kinds of magic. Most closely related to this case: a sorcerer. Since the source and output of the magic is so different, these guest lecturers may not be able to assist with the spellcraft per se (or perhaps they could!), but they could provide further insight into the myriad dimensions of magic for students as they learn Arcana or whatnot....

[Sparky McDibben]

Haha! Well, since I homeschool my kids, I wasn't exactly going to say it that way, but... yes, somewhat!

Sorry, man. No offense intended. :)


It is an interesting question though, because it also parallels the idea of how the academy could bring in "guest speakers" of completely different kinds of magic. Most closely related to this case: a sorcerer. Since the source and output of the magic is so different, these guest lecturers may not be able to assist with the spellcraft per se (or perhaps they could!), but they could provide further insight into the myriad dimensions of magic for students as they learn Arcana or whatnot....

Have the warlock come in to teach arcane contract law. "Now kids, very important: always, always, always check for invisible ink. Extraplanar entities love that..."

[Grognerd]

Sorry, man. No offense intended. :)

Not offended at all! :)


Have the warlock come in to teach arcane contract law. "Now kids, very important: always, always, always check for invisible ink. Extraplanar entities love that..."

THIS! I imagine he could add some nuance to the language courses as well: "Now I know that the book says that lskaj'ia means "fool", but when a great old one utters it, it tends to be a little... harsher."

[Sparky McDibben]

THIS! I imagine he could add some nuance to the language courses as well: "Now I know that the book says that lskaj'ia means "fool", but when a great old one utters it, it tends to be a little... harsher."

Love it! "How much harsher, Professor Scourge-of-Goodness?"

"How many times have you started bleeding from the eyes, ears, and mouth, kid?"

"Uhhhhh..."

"Then let's just leave it at 'harsher,' shall we? Moving on! Ershallanech means 'tentacle,' but er'sh'allanech refers to a prehensile tentacle...."

Sorry, just wanted to run with it. This is a fun idea. 10/10, will steal.

[Grognerd]

First, thanks to all of you for your feedback, and especially for your encouragement. So, while I won't say that I'll bang out all of these this quickly, since Sparky was asking for it, "The Sledge" and my take on zero-level Fighters using the same principles and general format. Hopefully it won't disappoint.

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/By77puVrqr

[Grognerd]

I like this a lot!

I must admit, I am also a fan of Prestidigitation and tend to try and work it into all my arcane spellcasters. Retraining upon graduation seems a sensible compromise for those who don't want to start with it though.

Thank you Jaryn! Also nice to see another Prestidigitation fan!

[Grognerd]

This and more. I feel as if the backgrounds should remain the same as you wrote them. They work really well. I do think they should be able to choose their first none damaging cantrip, because they can't swap. Otherwise, I really really like this. I might use it for a one-shot or two. Great work :smallsmile:!

If you do use this for a one-shot or two, please let me know how it goes! I consider it a high honor that y'all want to use it.

[Nagog]

This is definitely some design bias on my part, but I would like to think (or at least hope!) it is not entirely unreasonable bias. You are correct that not all wizards know Prestidigitation, but I think they all should. I don't mandate it for PCs, but I always include it for any arcane character I make.
I hate that Prestidigitation was assigned a school. I understand why they did it, but I really wish it was an All spell. Looking at its effects, I think it is easy to argue that in addition to any transmutation properties, the cantrip has elements of abjuration and evocation (igniting/dowsing flames), illusion (sensory effects and magic symbols/colors), conjuration (trinket creation), and even possible necromancy (manipulating non-living, organic items). So to me, Prestidigitation really is a great summary of the many schools of magic that fits a nice role in the concept of things.


I agree with you here. Prestidigitation is a very well-rounded cantrip, and fits the bill for 90% of "Ease of life" magic. Forgot your umbrella? A light breeze applied correctly should make the raindrops avoid you. Meatloaf kind of bland? a bit of conjured spices should help it go down. Can't find your flint and tinder? No matter, you can evoke a spark.

I could definitely see the Prestidigitation become another cantrip later, as the students find what they enjoy most of it and evolve their skills in that direction.



Ok, this is a little more involved. First: my reasoning for the lower Proficiency ratings. The idea in my mind was that the students would begin in a state of immaturity (whatever that might mean). Since an adult or mature individual who would theoretically have had much longer to practice a given skill begins at 1st level with Proficiency +2, it didn't make sense to me that an immature character should have that same access to ability. That is also the justification for the reduced Attribute Points and the disadvantage on non-proficient skills: there needed to be a reflection of their immaturity and a benefit for having a skill at Proficiency +0.

With that in mind, I can go back to your question about removing their background proficiencies. Since these are immature characters, the idea isn't that they have "completed" their background before becoming zero-level characters, but rather that their background development is concurrent with their zero-level development. So to use your urchin example, the student may be at school beginning their zero-level track, but on "summer break" they inevitably find themselves waifs on the street, finding ways to get by until they can return to school. Think of Harry Potter having to go and endure his family's abuse between years at Hogwarts; that sort of thing. That is why they are "learning" background skills that may not fit the Academy concurrent to their advancement through the Grades of their zero-level personas.

Obviously, this may not be ideal either. My original idea - and one that I'll likely revisit as well, to compare and see which one I like best - was to have the characters almost fully matured, with complete Backgrounds and their attendant proficiencies and Features, and have them run through an adventure a la N4 Treasure Hunt to obtain their Class.

My second idea was to focus on this specific Academy and say that all students had to have the Sage (Wizard's Apprentice) Background. But that would have been boring!

How to integrate/grow their background as zero-level characters is definitely something that I am open to reconsidering. That's one of the reasons I shared this out. But I did at least want to make sure that the original intention was out there so my draft wouldn't seem completely arbitrary.

This, however, I disagree with. I would adjust the skills to be as per regular (no disadvantage), but have the base proficiency be 1 and then scale up to 2. Keep in mind that the typical level 1 Wizard is not too far off from their graduation (if indeed a textbook scholar), so between graduation and beginning their adventuring, they haven't learned anything new yet. They're still chock full of book smarts and outright dry on practical application.
Also, disadvantage on checks you aren't proficient with will heavily discourage players from attempting anything they aren't proficient with, which can interfere with their character growth in-game. While that fits the bill of Metagaming, most of it will be subconscious. Similar to how most players will not give their wizard Barbarian levels, even if they have anger issues and like to hit people in character. Mechanically it's just a bad idea, so they won't even consider it.

[Sparky McDibben]

First, thanks to all of you for your feedback, and especially for your encouragement. So, while I won't say that I'll bang out all of these this quickly, since Sparky was asking for it, "The Sledge" and my take on zero-level Fighters using the same principles and general format. Hopefully it won't disappoint.

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/By77puVrqr

Thanks, friend! Two very minor pieces of feedback - there is a minor spelling error under the "Beginnings" subheading - check the first "should." Also your artwork seems to not be displaying. Again, these are super minimal tweaks; Homebrewery gets real finicky.

On the substantive piece, this looks solid. I like how you've allowed a wide array of equipment options for the starting fighter (which is something I love about the class), and how you've applied your wizard template to the fighter's worldview. More importantly, you've given the DM the tools to break up a class's proficiencies and apply them in a reasonable way. For example, I could take this and apply it to a knight's training as a squire, or a hobgoblin's training as a devastator. Nicely done!

Two potential avenues to develop this:

1 - So there are classes in D&D which seem to follow a trained progression, right? Fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric, monk, etc. And there are classes which follow an innate progression, like sorcerer, barbarian, warlock. And there are some weird fuzzy ones, like paladin, bard, and druid. You've given us a great model for the trained progression; my challenge to you is to do that for the innate progression classes. How does a sorcerer develop?

2 - Can you develop all of these zero-level progressions and give us a starting town? In other words, create a starting location for our zero-level characters? :)

Thanks again, and keep on going!

[Grognerd]

Thanks, friend! Two very minor pieces of feedback - there is a minor spelling error under the "Beginnings" subheading - check the first "should." Also your artwork seems to not be displaying. Again, these are super minimal tweaks; Homebrewery gets real finicky.

Whoops... I'll check on both of those. I really wish Homebrewery had a spellcheck feature! :)


On the substantive piece, this looks solid. I like how you've allowed a wide array of equipment options for the starting fighter (which is something I love about the class), and how you've applied your wizard template to the fighter's worldview. More importantly, you've given the DM the tools to break up a class's proficiencies and apply them in a reasonable way. For example, I could take this and apply it to a knight's training as a squire, or a hobgoblin's training as a devastator. Nicely done!

Thank you. Getting the Fighter to the point with their starting kit in a reasonable way took me a minute, but I think the end result wasn't too bad...


Two potential avenues to develop this:

1 - So there are classes in D&D which seem to follow a trained progression, right? Fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric, monk, etc. And there are classes which follow an innate progression, like sorcerer, barbarian, warlock. And there are some weird fuzzy ones, like paladin, bard, and druid. You've given us a great model for the trained progression; my challenge to you is to do that for the innate progression classes. How does a sorcerer develop?

2 - Can you develop all of these zero-level progressions and give us a starting town? In other words, create a starting location for our zero-level characters? :)

Thanks again, and keep on going!

Well... I guess I now have a goal!
1 - I'd actually say that the Warlock would fit into a fuzzy category (the art of the deal and all), so I'll hit either the Barbarian or the Sorcerer next. Anyone reading have a preference?
2 - Sure! I'll be thinking of connections as I create the other 10 zero-levels, and create a starting locus uniting them at the end.

[Damon_Tor]

How does a sorcerer develop?

I imagine there are some signs of some sort growing up, things most people wouldn't think twice about unless they know to look for them. Weird dreams, birthmarks, odd food cravings, things like that. Then there's an awakening, and something inside them changes, and they inadvertantly produce a spell effect, their first cantrip. Just as the wizard can't use their cantrip at will to start, that's true for the sorcerer as well, but maybe instead of a hard per day limit, their development is more experimental: when attempting to use their cantrip, they roll a d20. On a 20, they cast it successfully in the way they want. If playing with fumbles, on a 1, they cast it, but do something wrong with it. For a firebolt, maybe it goes off on the wrong direction and hits something unintended. For minor illusion, maybe they create a really low resolution version of the intended image or create the wrong image entirely.

This progresses with the sorcerer gaining new cantrips at a rapid pace through repeated "awakening" events, and the roll required to successfully cast them drops from 20 to 15, then 10 then 5 and then once they hit first level they can cast them reliably. Because they gain cantrips so much faster than wizards, I would delay their first level spells a bit by comparison.

A sorcerer "school" isn't strictly necessary, but having a safe place where young sorcerers can practice casting spells and support and guidance from elders would be helpful.

[Sir_Solifuge]

@Grognard

This is awesome! I really enjoy it a lot.

I know this is sort of your pet project and such, but it truly inspired me to work on my favorite class: the Cleric. I hope you don't mind I put together one, using much of what you had done with the Wizard one. Please feel free to adapt and such, but wanted to contribute to such a neat idea.

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SkHsSeUqB

[Grognerd]

I imagine there are some signs of some sort growing up, things most people wouldn't think twice about unless they know to look for them. Weird dreams, birthmarks, odd food cravings, things like that. Then there's an awakening, and something inside them changes, and they inadvertantly produce a spell effect, their first cantrip. Just as the wizard can't use their cantrip at will to start, that's true for the sorcerer as well, but maybe instead of a hard per day limit, their development is more experimental: when attempting to use their cantrip, they roll a d20. On a 20, they cast it successfully in the way they want. If playing with fumbles, on a 1, they cast it, but do something wrong with it. For a firebolt, maybe it goes off on the wrong direction and hits something unintended. For minor illusion, maybe they create a really low resolution version of the intended image or create the wrong image entirely.

I was thinking similarly to this. An initial thought that I had (though it may be too harsh), is to take inspiration from different shows and whatnot when a kid unleashes their inner power unexpectedly and promptly pass out from it. I don't want to go that harsh, but I thought about not putting a limit on the number of castings per se, but each casting of the cantrip gives a level of exhaustion. To slightly soften this it could be a temporary level that is removed after a Short Rest rather than a Long Rest. I just started thinking about this part today, though, so I haven't weighed it out too much...


A sorcerer "school" isn't strictly necessary, but having a safe place where young sorcerers can practice casting spells and support and guidance from elders would be helpful.

This. My initial thought (again, just from today) is to approach it sort of like Sorcerer X and his School for Arcane Youngsters: not teaching them their powers so much as giving them a place to cultivate and thrive to grow into them....


@Grognard

This is awesome! I really enjoy it a lot.

I know this is sort of your pet project and such, but it truly inspired me to work on my favorite class: the Cleric. I hope you don't mind I put together one, using much of what you had done with the Wizard one. Please feel free to adapt and such, but wanted to contribute to such a neat idea.

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SkHsSeUqB

Sir Solifuge, Thank you! I am happy to have inspired you, and look forward to looking this over tonight.

[Sir_Solifuge]

Sir Solifuge, Thank you! I am happy to have inspired you, and look forward to looking this over tonight.

It definitely is much more generic than the ones you have created for the Wizard (with a specific school) or the Fighter (a specific regiment). I just felt that since a Cleric's omain is from level 1, that before they gain their divine powers they probably would be a little less specific. Because while there may be more than one aspect to a single deity, a goddess of the spring being good for both Life Domain and Nature, a singular church wouldn't necessarily result in Clerics of any and all domains.

I feel like a similar issue would arise for Sorcerors, as they lineage and inherent magic is what dictates their subclass. You're draconic lineage doesn't change simply because you were cultivated by wild magic users. Or would it?

So maybe some of these would have to be more generic.

[Damon_Tor]

I feel like a similar issue would arise for Sorcerors, as they lineage and inherent magic is what dictates their subclass. You're draconic lineage doesn't change simply because you were cultivated by wild magic users. Or would it?

A school for sorcerers could be generic, with NPCs to guide specific origins where required, just as a wizards school would likely have an illusion instructor, a transmutation instructor, a necromancy instructor and so on. As I said, a sorcery school is likely just a safe plac they can experiment with their powers and become comfortable with themselves. No specific origin-oriented teaching is required.

Clerics and warlocks are different because of the philosophical opposition we see between dieties and patrons.

A starting organization for clerics might be a "true neutral" group, operating under the belief that the world needs both good and evil, order and chaos, and so has no issue handing one acolyte off to an evil death God and another off to a good life God. They likely have a patron God of their own, explaining the ability of the to-be clerics being able to cast divine spells before being formally devoted to a diety.

For warlocks I would see their starting group as a sort of employment agency, a neutral group in it for profit, charging the patrons a finder's fee for matching them with a suitable agent, and for training that agent in the basics. During this level zero training period the agency would itself act as a temporary patron, the power it loans out for training purposes siphoned from the patrons who employ their services as a part of their fee.

[Grognerd]

It definitely is much more generic than the ones you have created for the Wizard (with a specific school) or the Fighter (a specific regiment). I just felt that since a Cleric's omain is from level 1, that before they gain their divine powers they probably would be a little less specific. Because while there may be more than one aspect to a single deity, a goddess of the spring being good for both Life Domain and Nature, a singular church wouldn't necessarily result in Clerics of any and all domains.

Nothing wrong with generic at all. I've been writing them as specific schools, but that is as much for flavor as anything else. Generally I think these could be used as completely generic placeholders for whatever organization or school one desires. That said, since I've been doing these with flavor rather than as generic presentations, I'm going to try to continue to do that through the rest of these (though clerics are definitely going to require some thought in order to make it work, for all of the reasons you and Damon Tor mention).

I enjoyed your write-up. A little different than mine would have been/will be, but I can see the inspirations. Thanks! I really liked how you started them with rituals rather than cantrips. I'm assuming you were thinking about how people are initiated into religious practice through rites? Cool thought. I might have to steal that!


A school for sorcerers could be generic, with NPCs to guide specific origins where required, just as a wizards school would likely have an illusion instructor, a transmutation instructor, a necromancy instructor and so on. As I said, a sorcery school is likely just a safe plac they can experiment with their powers and become comfortable with themselves. No specific origin-oriented teaching is required.

I'm about halfway through my write-up for Sorcerers, and I agree with you... it requires a certain amount of flexibility to accommodate the different origins that would be inherent to proto-sorcerers. I think I found a way to accommodate that flexibility and yet still keep it flavorful rather than generic. I'll look forward to your thoughts when I publish it (probably tomorrow night).


For warlocks I would see their starting group as a sort of employment agency, a neutral group in it for profit, charging the patrons a finder's fee for matching them with a suitable agent, and for training that agent in the basics. During this level zero training period the agency would itself act as a temporary patron, the power it loans out for training purposes siphoned from the patrons who employ their services as a part of their fee.

An arcane employment agency connecting patrons to petitioners? Now that is an interesting approach that I would never have thought of!

[Sir_Solifuge]

Nothing wrong with generic at all. I've been writing them as specific schools, but that is as much for flavor as anything else. Generally I think these could be used as completely generic placeholders for whatever organization or school one desires. That said, since I've been doing these with flavor rather than as generic presentations, I'm going to try to continue to do that through the rest of these (though clerics are definitely going to require some thought in order to make it work, for all of the reasons you and Damon Tor mention).

I enjoyed your write-up. A little different than mine would have been/will be, but I can see the inspirations. Thanks! I really liked how you started them with rituals rather than cantrips. I'm assuming you were thinking about how people are initiated into religious practice through rites? Cool thought. I might have to steal that!

I'm thrilled you enjoyed it. I tried to stick close to yours so as to be coherent with the rest and give you something you could use. So please! By all means take what I wrote up and morph and massage as necessary.

You're right with why I went for Rituals first. If only because it echoes to the ideas behind what a religious ritual was created in the first place for. The veneration of a specific deity in a way that pleases them, and (in the eyes of the believers) can result in some sort of beneficial result from said pleasing of the god/goddess; in game terms that would be the magical affect.

The biggest issue I ran into with the Cleric one was trying to fit your 4 stage progression. I thought giving rituals right away seemed a bit much so extended it, but am not necessarily happy with 5 progressions while the rest had 4. Maybe when you make it your own you'd be able to see a possibility I couldn't.

[Grognerd]

Menophyrus has his careful students, but some are not quite so studious, not quite so careful, and driven not by the mind, but the soul! These are the ones that Carthanipal invites to his hermitage, as they begin their trek to become sorcerers...

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BympBfAvcH

I hope you enjoy it!

[Damon_Tor]

Menophyrus has his careful students, but some are not quite so studious, not quite so careful, and driven not by the mind, but the soul! These are the ones that Carthanipal invites to his hermitage, as they begin their trek to become sorcerers...

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BympBfAvcH

I hope you enjoy it!

This is great. I still disagree about the witholding of background features, but I really enjoy the flavor of these. Really nicely done.

[Grognerd]

This is great. I still disagree about the witholding of background features, but I really enjoy the flavor of these. Really nicely done.

Thank you Damon. The fact that you are enjoying these despite disagreeing with them makes it particularly rewarding! I'm thinking I'll work on Barbarians next...

[Grognerd]

As requested, I'm continuing to try and develop my zero-levels and sharing them here. So... my stab at a zero-level barbarian...

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJWO2dXi9S

[Grognerd]

Ok, so as I've gotten more experience writing these up, I made a small modification to the wizard's template, adding in the feature Arcane Syllogistics that I think addresses the concern about the mandatory Prestidigitation cantrip.

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BJXGZC7M5H

Right now, I've done Wizards and Fighters, but then the unusual cases of Sorcerers and Barbarians. When figuring what to do next, I figured I probably needed to do the "Big 4" (Cleric, Fighter, Magic-User, and Thief). Since Wizard and Fighter are done, I figured it was time to throw my hat into the ring for the Cleric!

The Cleric has a lot of stuff to fit in. In order to keep it to the four tiers without having a dump of ability lumped into one tier, I had to figure out a way to space it. I also wanted to balance it out with classes that didn't have as many features at first level. One of my solutions was to reduce the castings of Cantrips from Short Rests (as with the 0-level Wizards) to Long Rests. The reduction in frequency is more than made up (in my opinion) by the broader abilities that the 0-level Clerics command. I also really liked the idea of beginning clerics with ritual magic that @Sir_Solifuge suggested, so I tried to incorporate that without overpowering the devotees with 1st level spells. Hopefully I pulled it off. So with no further exposition, enjoy the 0-level Clerics of my ecumenical seminary...

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HywZB4Rn9B

[Grognerd]

Ok... finishing off the Big 4, I present the Burlap Guild for those rogues out there...

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/H1jf_Q6UA5H

[Sparky McDibben]

You are about the Lord's work, Brother Grognerd!

[Nefariis]

This is great. I still disagree about the witholding of background features, but I really enjoy the flavor of these. Really nicely done.

These are great and extremely flavorful - I think it would be a blast to start a campaign this way.

- but, I do agree with Damon_Tor, I don't think you should withhold background features.

It would seem to me that backgrounds are attained prior to starting training.

For example, the noble background - you are a noble from birth, where you train or what your career is is irrelevant.

[Grognerd]

You are about the Lord's work, Brother Grognerd!

Deus vult? :)



These are great and extremely flavorful - I think it would be a blast to start a campaign this way.

- but, I do agree with Damon_Tor, I don't think you should withhold background features.

It would seem to me that backgrounds are attained prior to starting training.

For example, the noble background - you are a noble from birth, where you train or what your career is is irrelevant.

First, welcome to the thread, Nefariis! And thank you for the compliment.

I do understand Damon and your concerns about Background Features. But I also see how they could be something that one grows into. For example, using the example of the Noble and his "Position of Privilege" Feature: yes the character is noble from birth, regardless of training or career. But since he is immature, he may not have yet achieved an age of majority. He is noble, but not yet allowed to attend matters of the throne, and therefore not yet able to leverage his nobility into the "Position of Privilege" benefit. As he matures, though, he is admitted into these matters rather than turned away by the major domo. Something like that could be a narrative behind the Noble not yet having access to their Background Feature.

On the other hand, I have been considering Damon's (and now your) concern, and thinking of how it could be addressed. Since I'm almost halfway through the classes, I'm going to keep using the general pattern that I've established. HOWEVER, since SOMEONE threw down the gauntlet and challenged me to not only do all of the classes but also provide a starting setting(!), and since I rather stupidly am taking that challenge up, I figured when I do the starting setting I'll include some "optional rules" that would address some of the concerns that have come up in the thread, and offer an alternate way to handle the progression of the Background. I already have some ideas, and by the time I get to that, they should be somewhat fleshed out.

Hopefully that will entice people to stick with this until I finish. :)

[Sparky McDibben]

HOWEVER, since SOMEONE threw down the gauntlet and challenged me to not only do all of the classes but also provide a starting setting(!)

Oh, that's where I left that gauntlet! Thanks for picking it up, Grognerd! :)

[Grognerd]

Oh, that's where I left that gauntlet! Thanks for picking it up, Grognerd! :)

Well, since we are talking about doing divine service and gauntlets, I guess that means we're talking about Paladins!

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rJGuSLfjH

[Grognerd]

Ontus is more than a city, it is a land, a land whose people are guarded by the Rangers known as the Cerulean Chasers.

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rJWmAtaEjB

[Grognerd]

Real life has slowed me down, so I hadn't gotten this posted yet, but if anyone is still reading and interested, then I present - as inspired by your suggestions - the Embassy of Contracts and my zero-level warlocks!

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BJrMgmcjiH

[Damon_Tor]

Real life has slowed me down, so I hadn't gotten this posted yet, but if anyone is still reading and interested, then I present - as inspired by your suggestions - the Embassy of Contracts and my zero-level warlocks!

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BJrMgmcjiH

Excellent. I really do enjoy reading these.

[Grognerd]

Excellent. I really do enjoy reading these.

Thank you, Damon! I appreciate it... your words are like a song! Sooooo.....

Fabricia's Wordsmiths and Artists Extraordinaire!
https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/B1QqXT1nB

[Grognerd]

As we are nearing the end, I'm saving the Druids for last, so I guess it's time for the Monks.

Welcome to Mother's!
https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rklOliQnH

[Grognerd]

And the final zero-level contribution... the Grove of the Black Holly Leaf and zero-level druids!

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Symqx5RI3S

[Grognerd]

I truly hope you have enjoyed this project, and want to thank you for both encouraging me and for motivating me to not only complete it, but also expand it to include the setting of Ontus.

I deliberately delayed releasing the druids until I could release the "full" setting, so without further ado...

Ontus, a Seed of Adventure!
https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/By0luJD3r

Please enjoy, and if anyone actually uses it, I'd love to hear how it goes/went!

[kebusmaximus]

Any chance you could post a PDF of the final setting? I really enjoyed reading this thread but I don't use chrome so the homebrewery doesn't render correctly.

[Grognerd]

Any chance you could post a PDF of the final setting? I really enjoyed reading this thread but I don't use chrome so the homebrewery doesn't render correctly.

I don't think I can post PDFs on the giantitp forums. If I can and you know how, I'll try to. Otherwise, you can private message me your e-mail and I'll be happy to send you the PDF.

[Grognerd]

Any chance you could post a PDF of the final setting? I really enjoyed reading this thread but I don't use chrome so the homebrewery doesn't render correctly.

Ok @kebusmaximus, I think this will work. Try this LINK (https://swansong740253569.files.wordpress.com/2019/11/ontus-seed-of-adventure.pdf)...

[kebusmaximus]

Ok @kebusmaximus, I think this will work. Try this LINK (https://swansong740253569.files.wordpress.com/2019/11/ontus-seed-of-adventure.pdf)...

It works! Thanks a lot.

[Sparky McDibben]

This looks great, Grognerd!

[Grognerd]

This looks great, Grognerd!

Thanks Sparky! I'm actually glad you put the challenge out there... it was a fun diversion, and I think it came out Ok.